Religious affilition, what do you believe?

[tom502]

I just found this link, these are pretty good:

http://www.luciferianliberationfront...ml#Anti-Tracts!

[sgreger1]

That was a typo, I actually meant to type Polytheistic Satanism. But, I'm sure that would also prompt you to ask a similar question. And it's a good question. Basically it means you revere many Gods/Godessess from different pantheons, but Satan is your primary focus. But here is where it gets confusing.

Some Theistic Satanists see the Judeo-Christian Satan as a real entity and others see him as merely a necessary force in nature. Of course, to believe in the Judeo-Christian Satan as a real entity requires that you also believe in Judeo-Christianity, or that you at least believe that while he may not have existed when first conceived by man, he has now come into existence due to millions of people sub-consciously believing in him. Which I believe has occurred with all deities.

I just see Satan as (just as his name implies) the opposer, the adversary, one who brings about change, individualism and free thought. A Satanic archetype has been a common thread throughout many practices. It's not about "good" and "evil" for those are human terms. It's about light and darkness, the yin and yang. It's a balance.

As for Luciferianism, Lucifer and Satan are different deities. Lucifer was the Roman God, The Bringer of Light/Wisdom. There is only one reference to Lucifer in the bible, and I believe it is in Isaiah, and only in the King James version I think. The other versions state "O, how ye have fallen O' Morning Star (Lucifer)" But the Morning Star is actually Venus, and Venus is associated with Lucifer.

But then you have Laveyan Satanists. Laveyans are for the most part Atheists and Agnostics. They just see Satan as a symbol and a focus point to bring about change and individualism, etc...

There are a lot of fringe wacko groups out there that proclaim themselves as Satanists and Luciferians. Especially, some Luciferian groups that talk about aliens and go on about the Freemasons and the Illuminati.

There are really only a few very reliable and informative persons online that represent it correctly. Michael W. Ford and Venus Satanas on Youtube, Diane Vera has a very informative Occult website, and John Allee.

Thanks, I knew what luciferianism was but didn't understand how it would be plytheistic. The luciferians I believe are the ones who thought lucifer had been wrongly cast out of heaven and it was god's bad, but you obviousely subscribe to a different version.

But considering lucifer represents 1 part of a two part system in nature (light and dark), I am curious why you choose dark?



The bible only references lucifer in the context of a spiritual being once in Isaiah 14:3–20, but the rest of the time the word appears, it is used to refer to the morning star with no relation to the devil

[sgreger1]

Which Luciferian groups talk about aliens, the illuminate, etc? Any links?

Léo Taxil (1854–1907) claimed that Freemasonry is associated with worshipping Lucifer.

Edit: It is also a popular belief that when our politicians go to behemian grove, they are taking place in a luciferian/satanic ritual to the owl Molech. Ive seen the videos and it is pretty weird if you ask me.

[NonServiam]

I just found this link, these are pretty good:

http://www.luciferianliberationfront...ml#Anti-Tracts!

Yep! That is definitely the group I was thinking of. I don't agree with them, but I'm glad you might find something interesting there.

[tom502]

sgregor- look at these little Chick like tracts, they are a hoot(and true)
http://www.luciferianliberationfront...ml#Anti-Tracts!

[NonServiam]

Thanks, I knew what luciferianism was but didn't understand how it would be plytheistic. The luciferians I believe are the ones who thought lucifer had been wrongly cast out of heaven and it was god's bad, but you obviousely subscribe to a different version.

But considering lucifer represents 1 part of a two part system in nature (light and dark), I am curious why you choose dark?

The bible only references lucifer in the context of a spiritual being once in Isaiah 14:3–20, but the rest of the time the word appears, it is used to refer to the morning star with no relation to the devil

Well, if you equate Lucifer with Satan, then yes... it would be one form of Luciferianism. Particularly Gnostic Luciferianism. And I do identify with parts of this philosophy as well. They basically see the Judeo-Christian god as the demi-urge (an oppressive/malicious deity) while they see Lucifer as a liberator of humanity. It comes down to the old adage that history is written by the victors and that Lucifer got a bum rap.

As far as I why I have chose the dark. I believe in a balance, you cannot appreciate nor recognize the other in of itself without the contrast of it's polar opposite. However, I feel that every person's essence is derived from either one side or the other. I have gravitated towards the darker nature of things ever since I was a child. But I still enjoy a warm spring day and listening to the birds sing. But when the moon is out, the dogs are howling, and the fog begins to rise from the fields is when I really feel alive.

By the way Sgreger, I'm glad you liked that Hicks' quote so much that you made it your signature. Don't say I never gave you anything

[WickedKitchen]

I am not currently affiliated with any organized religion.

I was raised Roman Catholic and followed through confirmation. Got married in a Catholic church too. I really gave up on the "church" about eight years ago. I still an undecided on a creationism theory. It seems plausible, and I'd like to believe that when we die it's more than just like switching off a computer. Maybe it's not.

Did anyone watch "Through The Wormhole" on the Science channel the other day? The first episode was pretty much about "God" or our perception of it at least. It was quite interesting.

During that show I had a thought: What if this is the pinnacle? What if we are in what is called heaven/hell and this is THE place. Is it possible that we as humans have [evolved?] to be the most intelligent "things" in the universe? Conventional wisdom believes that we are probably primitive compared to what we might find out there somewhere, but we don't really know yet. I'm on the side that there's so much more out there that we would not be able to understand currently, but like I said...nobody knows. Ha! That would be a pisser...if we die and find out that we really were in heaven and are not going to be reincarnated to some other place all the while we were anguishing about how to get to "heaven". Like you, I have many questions.

[NonServiam]

I am not currently affiliated with any organized religion.

I was raised Roman Catholic and followed through confirmation. Got married in a Catholic church too. I really gave up on the "church" about eight years ago. I still an undecided on a creationism theory. It seems plausible, and I'd like to believe that when we die it's more than just like switching off a computer. Maybe it's not.

Did anyone watch "Through The Wormhole" on the Science channel the other day? The first episode was pretty much about "God" or our perception of it at least. It was quite interesting.

During that show I had a thought: What if this is the pinnacle? What if we are in what is called heaven/hell and this is THE place. Is it possible that we as humans have [evolved?] to be the most intelligent "things" in the universe? Conventional wisdom believes that we are probably primitive compared to what we might find out there somewhere, but we don't really know yet. I'm on the side that there's so much more out there that we would not be able to understand currently, but like I said...nobody knows. Ha! That would be a pisser...if we die and find out that we really were in heaven and are not going to be reincarnated to some other place all the while we were anguishing about how to get to "heaven". Like you, I have many questions.

That show sounds right up my alley. I know one thing, if planet earth is partly the realm of heaven, then that is false advertising.

[sgreger1]

Well, if you equate Lucifer with Satan, then yes... it would be one form of Luciferianism. Particularly Gnostic Luciferianism. And I do identify with parts of this philosophy as well. They basically see the Judeo-Christian god as the demi-urge (an oppressive/malicious deity) while they see Lucifer as a liberator of humanity. It comes down to the old adage that history is written by the victors and that Lucifer got a bum rap.

As far as I why I have chose the dark. I believe in a balance, you cannot appreciate nor recognize the other in of itself without the contrast of it's polar opposite. However, I feel that every person's essence is derived from either one side or the other. I have gravitated towards the darker nature of things ever since I was a child. But I still enjoy a warm spring day and listening to the birds sing. But when the moon is out, the dogs are howling, and the fog begins to rise from the fields is when I really feel alive.

By the way Sgreger, I'm glad you liked that Hicks' quote so much that you made it your signature. Don't say I never gave you anything

I knew about that hicks quote but I couldn't for the life of me recall the wording enough to be able to google it, but now you posted it and I was like "oh this is perfect for a signature". Your check is in the mail.


So what is their theory on why satan is the liberator but God is the oppressor. I could see how God would be the opressor, since in theory oppression only exists because he created it, but what has Lucifer really done to anyones benefit, assuming we are believing in the fairtale land of angels and demons.

I mean in theory, wouldn't any attempt at liberating the people or overthrowing God be futile considering God is the creator and created both lucifer and the concept of liberation and overthrow?

Does you model bump God down from a god to just a guy in robes or how does this work?

[WickedKitchen]

NonServian, that show was pretty cool. It's narrated by Morgan Freeman (great voice) and it's a new science show on Discovery Science. The first one was good.

http://science.discovery.com/tv/through-the-wormhole/

Maybe heaven and hell are the same place. All depends how it effects you [so far as that theory goes]. Maybe it's a nut-job idea, but it's not any further out there than any of the other ones. I mean, wouldn't it be torturous to see others have that what you cannot obtain? Happens all the time. Others bask in lavishness, and seemingly w/o a care in the world. Many of us yet are caught in the middle.

[NonServiam]

I knew about that hicks quote but I couldn't for the life of me recall the wording enough to be able to google it, but now you posted it and I was like "oh this is perfect for a signature". Your check is in the mail.


So what is their theory on why satan is the liberator but God is the oppressor. I could see how God would be the opressor, since in theory oppression only exists because he created it, but what has Lucifer really done to anyones benefit, assuming we are believing in the fairtale land of angels and demons.

I mean in theory, wouldn't any attempt at liberating the people or overthrowing God be futile considering God is the creator and created both lucifer and the concept of liberation and overthrow?

Does you model bump God down from a god to just a guy in robes or how does this work?

This is a complex topic, so I may post some links to save on typing and plagiarism. Basically, they don't see the christian god as the creator, he is not the true cosmic force. He is the demi-urge. A deity which seeks enslavement and a herd of blind followers. They see Lucifer (for Luciferians) or Satan (theistic satanists) as a liberator because he does not want us to grovel at his feet. He wants us to think for ourselves, to grow spiritually and mentally. And to many they believe in Apotheosis, developing your inner divine spark into a black flame (godhood). Many view that science, technology, and human advancement in general are some aspects of humanity which we can credit to Satan and/or Lucifer, or at least the idea behind them if you view them as archetypes. Ok, I've decided to do links. I don't agree 100% on each of their content, but it should help to explain some.

http://theisticsatanism.com/varieties/FAQ-TS.html (very informative site from Diane Vera)

http://www.spiritualsatanist.com/art...an/theism.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0GrCFtwuPI (John Allee, he's kind of a strange guy, but very intelligent)

http://solarphallic-cult.org/gnosticluciferian.html

As I said before, these philosophies are by no means my only focus. Just influences on my path. Like I said, I also follow Panentheism (the belief that god is the sum of all things, yet greater than the sum) and Germanic Heathenism or Odinism to some.

[NonServiam]

NonServian, that show was pretty cool. It's narrated by Morgan Freeman (great voice) and it's a new science show on Discovery Science. The first one was good.

http://science.discovery.com/tv/through-the-wormhole/

Maybe heaven and hell are the same place. All depends how it effects you [so far as that theory goes]. Maybe it's a nut-job idea, but it's not any further out there than any of the other ones. I mean, wouldn't it be torturous to see others have that what you cannot obtain? Happens all the time. Others bask in lavishness, and seemingly w/o a care in the world. Many of us yet are caught in the middle.

I guess we'll all find out when our time comes. Something tells me that none of us will be right. By the way, thanks for your "Story" thread. I had a good time with that one. I just wish it would have lasted longer (lol, that's what she said!)

[sgreger1]

NonServian, that show was pretty cool. It's narrated by Morgan Freeman (great voice) and it's a new science show on Discovery Science. The first one was good.

http://science.discovery.com/tv/through-the-wormhole/

Maybe heaven and hell are the same place. All depends how it effects you [so far as that theory goes]. Maybe it's a nut-job idea, but it's not any further out there than any of the other ones. I mean, wouldn't it be torturous to see others have that what you cannot obtain? Happens all the time. Others bask in lavishness, and seemingly w/o a care in the world. Many of us yet are caught in the middle.

If one really looked you would realize that earth is both heaven and hell, and I think spritiualism tries to explain how to utilize this fact to stay more on the heaven side, since it is truly about perception.

Think about it, there are those in poor countries that have few material things, and then there are those that are rich beyond their dreams and have lots of material things.

It's all about your perception, and religion in a way tries to aid in bringing you towards the "heaven" side.

People are heaven and hell depending on how they percieve things:

Poor Hell: I am poor and have nothing, I will have no meaning in life and starve.

Poor Heaven: They develope spiritual practices (like budhism) that salute the fact they have litte, and in fact advocate giving up everything to enjoy the beauty of the world. In other words, to not worry about material things and enjoy your experience, even though you have nothing, because by ridding yourslef of the want to have material possesions you are no longer negatively impacted by the fact you are poor and have nothing. You gain something from nothing.


Rich Hell: They have everything but still never find happiness. They can have infinite money, but will never be as "at peace" with themselves as the yogi who lives in the mountains who owns nothing but his robes.

Rich Heaven: I have money, yay this is what I always wanted, I can use that to do things I want and or help others.



Life can be either heaven or hell, regardless of whether you were born in hollywood to a rich family or born to a tribe in bangladesh somewhere. It's all about your perception. A lot of what religion does is try and make the best of a bad situation for people in poor conditions, therefore it's not always bad.

[sgreger1]

This is a complex topic, so I may post some links to save on typing and plagiarism. Basically, they don't see the christian god as the creator, he is not the true cosmic force. He is the demi-urge. A deity which seeks enslavement and a herd of blind followers. They see Lucifer (for Luciferians) or Satan (theistic satanists) as a liberator because he does not want us to grovel at his feet. He wants us to think for ourselves, to grow spiritually and mentally. And to many they believe in Apotheosis, developing your inner divine spark into a black flame (godhood). Many view that science, technology, and human advancement in general are some aspects of humanity which we can credit to Satan and/or Lucifer, or at least the idea behind them if you view them as archetypes. Ok, I've decided to do links. I don't agree 100% on each of their content, but it should help to explain some.

http://theisticsatanism.com/varieties/FAQ-TS.html (very informative site from Diane Vera)

http://www.spiritualsatanist.com/art...an/theism.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0GrCFtwuPI (John Allee, he's kind of a strange guy, but very intelligent)

http://solarphallic-cult.org/gnosticluciferian.html

As I said before, these philosophies are by no means my only focus. Just influences on my path. Like I said, I also follow Panentheism (the belief that god is the sum of all things, yet greater than the sum) and Germanic Heathenism or Odinism to some.

Very intiresting concept which I had never heard of. In theory it makes sense. Hell even in the first book of the bible, Genesis, the devil is trying to help man by giving him access to information that God wants to keep secret from humans. Then again right before the flood, when the watchers/fallen angels come down and start giving secrets to man (and starts banging their women), God once again gets pissed and wipes everyone out, leaving one dumb farmer alive to repopulate.


The whole story to me is science fiction, but it is an intiresting way of looking at it since the bible would seem to corroborate the luciferian side of the story; where god is constantly trying to keep humans dumb and in church, whereas lucifer and his fallen angels are trying to enlighten man and teach them to embrace technology and things such as the tower of babel.



I swear I learn something new here every day lol.

[NonServiam]

I swear I learn something new here every day lol.

Same here. It is the proverbial 'meeting of the minds'. The more we learn, the more we realize what we don't know.