Religious affilition, what do you believe?

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  • CzechCzar
    Member
    • Jun 2010
    • 1144

    I’ve been reading this thread, and find the discussion thus far to be very interesting. I thought I’d throw in my two cents...

    I personally am an Episcopalian. What I believe, summed up succinctly, is to be found in the Nicene Creed.

    Regarding Flying Spaghetti Monsters, Tooth Fairies, faith, scientism, and reason:

    Religion (specifically, Christianity) is not faith-based, in that it is not believing something despite having every evidence to the contrary. It is faith-based in the sense that it is believing something towards which the evidence points without having conclusive proof. There is plenty of evidence for God - the various versions of the Cosmological arguments, Plantinga’s Ontological argument, the Teleological argument, the moral argument - but these evidences don’t establish God with 100% certainty. I think of faith in my religion as similar to faith in your wife... do you know 100% that she loves you, is not cheating on you, etc.? No, of course not - there is always some doubt. However, past evidence of her loving you, not cheating on you, etc., leads you to place your faith in her. That is exactly like my faith in God, based upon the above apologetical arguments, and the personal witness in my life of the Holy Spirit.

    The reason belief in God is different from belief in FSM, tooth fairy, etc., is that the absence of evidence is only evidence of absence should we expect to find more evidence granting the conditional. In the absence of evidence, we can deny the existence of something only if we should expect to possess evidence sufficient to know that exists but in fact lack it. This link provides further explanation of this: (http://www.reasonablefaith.org/is-god-imaginary)

    Many people here have adopted the empiricist / scientist position, and say, essentially, that we must have scientific (i.e., provable and repeatable in a laboratory) evidence backing a proposition in order to judge that proposition to be true. But surely this is wrong-headed: the proposition cannot even support itself, because it is not provable in a laboratory! Indeed, you would have to give up all kinds of commonly held beliefs were you to follow this mode of thinking: belief in the reality of the past; belief in the reality of other people; belief that you are not just a brain in a vat being controlled by mad scientists to have sensory experiences... In other words, not only is the scientist position self-refuting, but it also leads much of our everyday experience to be abandoned.

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    • hokiehi82
      Member
      • Jul 2012
      • 227

      Well said Czech.

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      • Zimobog
        Member
        • Jan 2013
        • 585

        Czechczar, that is interesting. I dont think the "wife is cheating on you" angle works there. I mean to say, whether or not she or not is is one one thing but I have 100% proof SHE exists.

        Even of the Gods are real, it says nothing to the point that the Bible is a total fabrication.

        If Gods are real, Why would the christian/jewish god be assumed to be the one that "proof of god" is supporting?

        Comment

        • littledog
          Member
          • May 2006
          • 44

          Me,i don't know nuthin' about nothin'. And furthermore i don't wanna know. Ignorance is bliss.

          Comment

          • CzechCzar
            Member
            • Jun 2010
            • 1144

            Zimobog,

            I did not ask whether you know she exists, rather, I asked whether you know she is faithful. Your limited knowledge certainly implies she is faithful, but no matter how much evidence you amass, your knowledge of her faith will never equal your knowledge that, say, 2+2=4. While the latter is what modal philosophers would call a necessary truth, the former is contingent; your wife could cheat on you tomorrow. But, you know your wife, and have faith based upon the evidence you have accumulated so far that she is true. This is akin to knowledge of God. (Coincidentally, you do not even have 100% confidence that you wife exists. She could be an illusion, or you could be dreaming.)

            What evidence are you using to establish that the Bible is a "total [100%] fabrication"? Methinks this would be a difficult burden of proof to sustain.

            The classical proofs of God support a monotheistic God. Only three options: Christianity, Islam, Judaism. To move to the Christian God from these three live options, you have to use historical methodology.

            Comment

            • sandmountainslim
              Member
              • Mar 2013
              • 39

              Pretty much borderline Agnostic but I attend a United Methodist Church.

              Comment

              • Faylool
                Member
                • Dec 2012
                • 496

                I believe God is in our being and it kind scares me because it's pretty potent stuff but it takes a very rare unique to the moment and unreserved effort to be aware of and have faith in it. Pretty scarey

                Comment

                • truthwolf1
                  Member
                  • Oct 2008
                  • 2696

                  Originally posted by Faylool
                  I believe God is in our being and it kind scares me because it's pretty potent stuff but it takes a very rare unique to the moment and unreserved effort to be aware of and have faith in it. Pretty scarey
                  in every case, it’s understood that this inner, transcendental reality can be directly experienced. This experience has likewise been given different names. In India traditions it is called Yoga, in BuddhismNirvana, in Islam fana, in Christianity spiritual marriage. It is a universal teaching based on a universal reality and a universal experience.

                  http://www.tm.org/blog/enlightenment...od-within-you/

                  Comment

                  • Faylool
                    Member
                    • Dec 2012
                    • 496

                    Nice link. Some call this the "opiate" I refer to it as purest form of love. Addicting? Yes. Need more and more and more. No. Can you overdose? Nope. How much is it? Free. Is it legal? Of course and it can't be taxed

                    Comment

                    • Frankie Reloaded
                      Banned Users
                      • Jan 2011
                      • 541

                      I am Roman Catholic.

                      I believe in God the Father, Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth
                      And in Jesus Christ, his only begotten Son, our Lord
                      Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary
                      Suffered under Pontius Pilate; was crucified, dead and buried: He descended into hell
                      The third day he rose again from the dead
                      He ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty
                      From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead
                      I believe in the Holy Ghost
                      I believe in the holy catholic church: the communion of saints
                      The forgiveness of sins
                      The resurrection of the body
                      And the life everlasting.

                      Comment

                      • CzechCzar
                        Member
                        • Jun 2010
                        • 1144

                        Originally posted by Faylool
                        Nice link. Some call this the "opiate" I refer to it as purest form of love. Addicting? Yes. Need more and more and more. No. Can you overdose? Nope. How much is it? Free. Is it legal? Of course and it can't be taxed
                        A very good way of putting it!

                        Originally posted by Frankie Reloaded
                        I am Roman Catholic.

                        I believe in God the Father, Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth
                        And in Jesus Christ, his only begotten Son, our Lord
                        Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary
                        Suffered under Pontius Pilate; was crucified, dead and buried: He descended into hell
                        The third day he rose again from the dead
                        He ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty
                        From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead
                        I believe in the Holy Ghost
                        I believe in the holy catholic church: the communion of saints
                        The forgiveness of sins
                        The resurrection of the body
                        And the life everlasting.
                        Amen.

                        Comment

                        • CzechCzar
                          Member
                          • Jun 2010
                          • 1144

                          Just curious: in Episcopal Churches, we say:

                          "I believe in the Holy Ghost
                          The Lord and giver of life
                          Who proceedeth from the Father and the Son
                          Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified
                          Who spake by the prophets.
                          And I believe in one holy Catholic..."

                          Do you know why you guys don't include the lines describing the Holy Ghost, or we do?

                          Comment

                          • Snotgifff
                            Member
                            • Sep 2012
                            • 517

                            I work in the church I grew up in. I stopped going to church when my parents stopped forcing me. Now that I work here, I see all the political BS and behind the scenes hypocritical non-sense. Large religious institutions are a joke. It's all about the money. If I told you how much our pastors made, you'd shit yourself.

                            Comment

                            • sandmountainslim
                              Member
                              • Mar 2013
                              • 39

                              Originally posted by CzechCzar
                              Just curious: in Episcopal Churches, we say:

                              "I believe in the Holy Ghost
                              The Lord and giver of life
                              Who proceedeth from the Father and the Son
                              Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified
                              Who spake by the prophets.
                              And I believe in one holy Catholic..."

                              Do you know why you guys don't include the lines describing the Holy Ghost, or we do?
                              In Methodist churches we say it just like the Catholic guy posted. That must be another creed that the Episcopals say?

                              Comment

                              • YfirBaggari
                                Member
                                • Jan 2012
                                • 103

                                Never really given religion a much thought, all I know is I don't beleave in A god and I respect other peoples religious views aslong as they don't try and force it down my throat.
                                If you guys have the time you should watch Zeitgeist (part one (I think), about religion, It blew my mind, very interesting stuff.

                                I'm not a bad person even tho I don't beleave there's an afterlife, I try to treat others like I'd like to be treated.

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