Religious affilition, what do you believe?

[justintempler]

Okay, that's clearly not getting us anywhere. Let me ask you two questions instead.

1. Do you think human beings currently know everything there is to know about the universe?

2. If not, do you think everything about the universe is ultimately knowable by human beings?

1. No , 2. No

So now you use........ The Argument From Ignorance Fallacy

We can go forever...............
we can debate the Eurythro dilemma,
Kant, Nietzsche, C.S. Lewis, Freud
the cosmological argument,
the teleological argument,
the ontological argument,
or how about
Matt Slick's latest re-incarnation of the Transcendental Argument for God's Existence.

get the idea?

Just leave it at a draw, nobody is going to win.
You have your worldview, I have mine.

[Stargazer]

atheist in every way.
Have never believed in god really, maybe when I was a child
and thought of god as a kind of imaginary friend.
But I outgrew that..... :lol:

sorry, I have a lot of tolerance for religious people, as long as they can
take some ridicule, I love when they answer back with the same coin.
as long as people don't preach and shout about it, it's OK.

looking forward to the day when church and state will be separated.

[Starcadia]

Just leave it at a draw, nobody is going to win.
You have your worldview, I have mine.

Not trying to win. Just pointing out some fundamentals that we can all agree on, regardless of our affiliations, and thereby realize we're all on the same side and that we would all be much stronger together instead of making monsters out of one another and creating increasingly large rifts between "factions". The greater the rifts, the greater the psychosis, and the greater effort will be required to bring them back together again to make a whole.

Again, I'm not affiliated either way. Not religious, not non-religous, not anti-religious.

Because you answered no to our ability as humans to know everything about the universe, that implies that you feel there is a such thing as the unknowable. I think most people, including myself, would agree that there is such a thing. What we may disagree on is the scale of the unknowable compared to the knowable. For me, the unknowable (the domain of spirit and faith) is quite a bit larger than the knowable (the domain of science and material), many orders of magnitude larger. This, of course, is an assumption, but is a fairly easy assumption that I'm willing to make on faith, necessarily. And it is this profound unknowableness that is what powers people's concept(s) of God(s).

To attempt to strip this from people, or to compare this giant concept - the largest concept humans have yet created for themselves - with something like Santa Claus, makes no sense, and is ultimately quite violent in nature.

[justintempler]

To attempt to strip this from people, or to compare this giant concept - the largest concept humans have yet created for themselves - with something like Santa Claus, makes no sense, and is ultimately quite violent in nature.

8)

[CM]

Happy atheist, in my eyes god is total lie. (aplogizes to the people if that offends) Who knows, maybe when I'm older I will come to faith in way or another. You can't never know..

[Premium Parrots]

Happy atheist, in my eyes god is total lie. (aplogizes to the people if that offends)

Fair enuff.

Who knows, maybe when I'm older I will come to faith in way or another. You can't never know..

Yea that usually when alot of non-belivers change their minds. Espicially when they are old and ill. Getting closer to death can make belivers out of alot of people.

Then there are some that never believe, and thats their choice. I will defend their right to that choice. [just so you know that I am not preaching here]

[justintempler]

Yea that usually when alot of non-belivers change their minds. Espicially when they are old and ill. Getting closer to death can make belivers out of alot of people.

I've come close to death twice in my life. The 1st time I was unconscious. The second time I had carbon monoxide poisoning and I couldn't breath for a good fifteen/twenty minutes, at that point you can't move so all you can do is think. I actually faced the fact that I might die and had a chance to contemplate my own death. My initial reaction was fear but then I accepted my fate. In retrospect it would have been a peaceful way to die.

[Starcadia]

To attempt to strip this from people, or to compare this giant concept - the largest concept humans have yet created for themselves - with something like Santa Claus, makes no sense, and is ultimately quite violent in nature.

8)

You're right. I apologize for trying to impose what I believe here. That was wrong of me and it won't happen again.

[gitchel]

Quaker.

[Skimo]

Raised Jewish, became "born again" when I was 16, but pushed away from the church in my early 20's (seemed folks thought my South Africa activism was against God, since everyone knew that if the vile Apartheid regime fell, then communism would obviously follow)

Didn't talk with God for 15 years or so, then read Traveling Mercies by Ann Lamott, hugely moved by it and started a dialogue with him again.

But even more disgusted with organized religion today then i was when i was younger. So will very reluctantly admit to being a Christian, but disagree vehemently with how most so called Christians here in the states go about everything.

I'm in a similar boat to sagedil.
I was raised Christian, I moved away from God when I joined the military. Recently my actions put my marriage in jeopardy. I had a one night stand. It wasn't worth it, alcohol is no excuse.

Sagedil, the one thing you said "started a dialog with him again" is exactly right, in my opinion.
I don't believe in religion, religions are all the same, at least with the basics i.e. don't murder, don't rape, don't steal etc.

I do believe in relationships, relationships between people and with God.
Some people believe that when they die nothing happens or that there is a limbo or that they rejoin the Earth and continue living or are reincarnated, I believe that God sent his son to Earth to die in payment for my sins. The one thing I like about going to church is the ability to befriend other people who struggle in their lives the same as me, a supporting group of people who won't judge you.

as a side note to the atheism vs. theism debate, neither side will convince the other, one side favors quantifiable proof, the other requires faith. I won't preach or even talk of it much unless asked. I say arguing over it is pointless especially for atheists. because it just doesn't matter, it becomes a point of personal pride that motivates, and for theists it becomes a matter of the atheists presenting an conversational opening that the theists see as a chance to cause the atheists to see their side.

best described as yin-yang, both sides chasing eternally.

[Stargazer]

Just leave it at a draw, nobody is going to win.
You have your worldview, I have mine.

Not trying to win. Just pointing out some fundamentals that we can all agree on, regardless of our affiliations, and thereby realize we're all on the same side and that we would all be much stronger together instead of making monsters out of one another and creating increasingly large rifts between "factions". The greater the rifts, the greater the psychosis, and the greater effort will be required to bring them back together again to make a whole.

Again, I'm not affiliated either way. Not religious, not non-religous, not anti-religious.

Because you answered no to our ability as humans to know everything about the universe, that implies that you feel there is a such thing as the unknowable. I think most people, including myself, would agree that there is such a thing. What we may disagree on is the scale of the unknowable compared to the knowable. For me, the unknowable (the domain of spirit and faith) is quite a bit larger than the knowable (the domain of science and material), many orders of magnitude larger. This, of course, is an assumption, but is a fairly easy assumption that I'm willing to make on faith, necessarily. And it is this profound unknowableness that is what powers people's concept(s) of God(s).

To attempt to strip this from people, or to compare this giant concept - the largest concept humans have yet created for themselves - with something like Santa Claus, makes no sense, and is ultimately quite violent in nature.

my opinion is the total opposite.
I feel that what you call the unkowable is a very small part of all the available information in the universe. wille the knowable is so immensely huge, that we will probably never have the time to know it all. I have no or little belief in spirits and ghosts.

but hey, that's opinions for ya.

[dhkosta]

I was raised in an IFCA (Independent Fundamental Churches of America -or- I'll Fight Christians Anywhere) church in the Bible Belt. I suppose there may be a part of me that still believes, but my logical mind doesn't do well to allow it. Growing up, I saw so many people caught up in legalistic doctrinal spats whose end result was spite for fellow Christians and fellow man. I have a suspicion that Christ wouldn't have endorsed such behavior.

I no longer believe, and it's a tough, lonely road to walk. I'm scared shitless of dying now, because I know that that's just the end for me. I'm sure it's this fear that pushed man into blindly believing there was something more. I'll never see my grandfather again, and the most I can do is to raise my sons to carry on my consciousness, so that what wisdom I've devised doesn't go to the grave with me.

But there's a silver lining to this dark cloud. Knowing this is the only life empowers me to enjoy every day more, and knowing that this is my only chance to live frees me to do what I can while I'm here.

In essence, atheism has made me a moral man.

"If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent Him."
-Voltaire

[Starcadia]

my opinion is the total opposite.
I feel that what you call the unkowable is a very small part of all the available information in the universe. wille the knowable is so immensely huge, that we will probably never have the time to know it all. I have no or little belief in spirits and ghosts.

but hey, that's opinions for ya.

Evolution is in the business of specialization, and that's not an opinion. We animals, like all animals, have over a very long period of time been whittled and honed to perceive our environment in a very specific way and to be highly functional within a very narrow range. Sure we're very talented at stretching our specializations with telescopes and radar and written language and such, but we can't fundamentally step out of the way we sense our environment. We can't, for instance, know what it's like to exist as a four-dimensional being, or with other senses than the five we're endowed with.

It's an ultimately supernatural viewpoint to say that evolution, on this little ball of rock in the middle of nowhere, has designed us in such a way that we can perceive, much less understand, the majority of what lies beyond our physical senses. And all this at the same time evolution was designing tigers and spiders and algae to do what they do. We animals are pretty kickass, but not that kickass.

[Roo]

This is the most interesting thread I've read on this forum. I hope it stays afloat, and stays generally civil... This is possibly my favorite topic to discuss, albeit with those who are close to me. I haven't posted again, but I'm really enjoying everyone's ideas.

I personally subscribe to a good bit of anthropologist Marvin Harris's theories. I believe religion, and many other customs and social institutions practiced in various forms among different societies, are the result of thousands of years of cultural selection: Over time, the organizational, re-distributive, moral, and political functions of religious practice have both satisfied our need for these answers and also served us well in our overall success as a species. Until relatively recently in our history....

But the impact of exposure to your own culture and mores and ways of life in childhood can never be underestimated. Had I been born in Bangalore, I would most certainly be Hindu. Turkmenistan, Muslim. Atheism fits my worldview best right now, as bleak as it is. It just makes sense to me now, far more than the idea of Creationism.

[victoryredchevy]

Christian. Raised in an Inter-Denominational church, now attend a Southern Baptist church. For me the decision to be or not to be a follower of Christ was never based on hypocrites or organized religion or how peachy keen a church made me feel. God is there and I know it, period. It wasn't a preacher or a congregation that lead me to God nor will either turn me away. It's not about me, it's about him and he knows my plan because it's his.