Clearing the air...we need it around here...

[ctimb2002]

Today has been a very sad day for me. Not only the passing of this new tobacco regulation but the way that I see some people handling it. I realize I am in no way an old member of this website. In fact I am a certifiable newbie. Of course in the time i've been here I have seen conflicts arise and conflicts cooled. People who where vicious to each other become amicable and that gave me great hope. Even in our disagreements we come together in the end. Today I saw old bickering brought back up, new hatred arise, and an overall very negative feeling across the board(pun intended)

So...Here are my .02. I cannot possibly imagine the amount of hours I have spent on this website over the past 2 months. Everyday I have enjoyed logging on here and reading someones new opinion on snus...or seeing another new member come after me with a similar story as mine and just thinking how great it was. It would be a lie for me to say I haven't seen some of the viciousness that has been coming and going. Last week I honestly thought we were finally getting back on a good track. Then today happened. I really feel like somehow we as people took a step back today.

I can only say this... "cooler heads always prevail." Read twice before you post. If something sounds like it could be taken the wrong way consider rewording it. I hate to bring this one up but for gods sake if you can't say something nice just don't say it. I'm not saying we shouldn't voice different opinions but the PERSONAL attacks of other members HAS TO STOP. If we are going to have open and honest debates it has to be without stupid childish name calling. It does nothing to further your point and only serves to make others feel less of you.

I realize this only applies to a VERY small amount of posters but I think we all skate these lines from time to time. I apologize for anyone who just read this and thought "man what a waste of time," but honestly this is how im feeling tonight and I needed to get this off my chest before I was able to fall asleep.

Peace and love guys...honestly.

[sagedil]

Nicely put. Thank you.

Have I told you what a pleasure you are here on Snuson. I think you might just be my favorite newbie. Thank you for finding us, you are most welcome here!!!!

[Snusophile]

Well said, man.

[Roo]

Uh oh... I missed something. Says a lot when a newbie comments on the negatve direction to which the forum is headed... Damn. I don't even want to look.

[lxskllr]

Uh oh... I missed something. Says a lot when a newbie comments on the negatve direction to which the forum is headed... Damn. I don't even want to look.

The bad thing is it wasn't even in the OT section :^O

[Lucky Striker]

Let me say that the time for blaming is over. It's done, it's passed, we got our venting done or whatever, but we should stop taking pot shots at each other. Let's work together instead of against each other.

(Cue up 80's slasher film) "Can't you see he WANTS us to fight each other?!? That only makes us weaker!"

Let's put aside our differences and do what we can to get around this. We need more info regarding:

1. Correct interpretation of the legislation as it stands.

2. A game plan to deal with such legislation, no more speculation.

3. A plan to get more snus into the US. The more we have here when this thing passes, the harder it will be to get rid of.

4. More info regarding making our own snus. If there's one thing that is a shining beacon of light in all this mess is what snupy and Justin have going on in the "make your own snus" thread. We can still legally (and inexpensively) buy tobacco off a farm, all we need to know is the correct way to bake it.

5. We need valid info from manufacturers and distributors. Frank, J. and Markus, Jill C at getsnus, anybody from Buysnus, Patrick from V2- WE NEED INFO. What are YOUR plans to deal with this? What do you know that can maybe enlighten us more than we already are?

6. We need somebody handling the legislative front. For all the talk that Larry (Mr Unz) does, he's off in Sweden right now doing god knows what with God knows who. Either way, he's out of the picture. We need a rebel yell type of guy- and I nominate Sage. Anybody that got their head busted at Berkley has my vote of confidence. If he's not up for it, somebody please volunteer. A petition is a good way to start, and to bury all the negativity associated with what went on earlier, I vote that we do it through this site. Either way, somebody keeping tabs on the current legislation and offering plausible insight into what can happen and what we need to do in the meanwhile.

7. To repeat what I said earlier- now's the time to panic, but panic constructively. No crazy spending and buying up all the snus. But have a reserve supply steadily building up. If someone is low on funds and you have snus you don't need, send it to them. Otherwise hold on to it for "lean times".

This is all coming from a guy that's fed up with the current legislation. I'm sick and tired of being told what's right for me by people that have no idea what the **** they're doing. WE- the people- WE the SNUSERS need to get off our asses and protect what we hold dear. Let's put aside this pettyness and work together to get something accomplished.

Oh, and somebody PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN! I don't want the kids of tomorrow to not know what snus is while they die a slow death from smoking. We know that smoking is here to stay but we're not so sure about snus. Let's turn that around.

[Badfish74]

Chris,

Thank you for starting this thread. It was much needed, and very well worded. I applaud you for not stooping to calling out any names. I was pleased to see that once again Sage was proven right, and it was pretty much the 5% he has warned us about that was involved.

But still it makes me sad, very sad. I am truly embarrassed and ashamed.

[chainsnuser]

How about if all the 'politically interested' members from the USA started to post, what their favorite party has done good for their country instead of the thousandfold repeated "the Republicans have ruined the country" answered with "oh, really, but the Democrats will ruin it even more".

This kind of repeated negativistic and brainless arguing really is terribly boring and it isn't good for the climate of the forum.

Cheers!

[Badfish74]

How about if all the 'politically interested' members from the USA started to post, what their favorite party has done good for their country instead of the thousandfold repeated "the Republicans have ruined the country" answered with "oh, really, but the Democrats will ruin it even more". This kind of repeated negativistic and brainless arguing really is terribly boring and it isn't good for the climate of the forum

AMEN! Is that such a hard concept for people to grasp?!

And the racial comments were totally and completely uncalled for! If you and your buddies talk that way, goody goody for you, but keep that shit off of this forum!! This is a very culturally diverse community, and that's one of the things I love about it!

Ok...I'm off my soapbox now! 8)

[ctimb2002]

Uh oh... I missed something. Says a lot when a newbie comments on the negatve direction to which the forum is headed... Damn. I don't even want to look.

A major reason I didn't say anything till yesterday. I am a newb. The nice thing is I woke up this morning and reread what I had written and would not change a thing.

[sagedil]

You did good. Thank you for speaking up. ALL of us who care about this place and were embarrassed by what happened yesterday needed to stand up.

AND FYI, after I posted, Norex and I got into a long private conversation. He is cool with everything.

[ctimb2002]

Good. I wish I had been around more yesterday but I just had NO idea things where going to blow up like they did. I wish there had been a camera on my face when I logged in about 11pm last night after logging off at 2:30 that afternoon. It was probably pretty funny...i think I did a literal translation of WTF?!?!?!.

I really hope Norex can stick around and contribute. I think someone with passion (even perhaps sometimes misdirected) is never a bad thing on this forum.

[sagedil]

He said he will stick around but probably not post for a bit. And yeah, I tried to give him a little guidance. I love his passion but it doesn't always work well here. But he will figure everything out.

I purposely stayed out of the threads. Someone even mentioned them to me privately, and I told them there was no way I was going in there. Having lost my own cool recently, I am working to make sure I don't do that again.

But when I finally looked, I was horrified. And yes, deeply embarrassed. I have made Snuson my home, I have more posts here than anyone. So obviously, I give my implied consent to everything that goes on here. But yesterday, when i read what some folks were saying, I was just really, really hurt.

So said my peace and seem to have managed to help turn things back around. Everyone else who was also horrified and probably so shocked they didn't know how to respond finally spoke up as well. Given my place her, it really was my responsibility to speak up And I was able to then talk with Norex directly and make sure he was cool. So in the end, I think some good came out of everything

[Badfish74]

Yep...I think horrified is the right word! :shock:

[Roo]

A major reason I didn't say anything till yesterday. I am a newb. The nice thing is I woke up this morning and reread what I had written and would not change a thing.

Hey bud, hope you didn't take my newbie comment the wrong way. What I meant was that if someone who joined less than 2 months ago can plainly see this place is not what it used to be, that speaks volumes to what has happened here. Your post was great and I'm glad to have people like you around. It's cool to read posts from new people who are just getting into snus, trying new brands, and having a good time with each other and staying positive. That aspect of the forum seems to be one of its only redeeming qualities these days. It it weren't for the new people like you, and a few of the old timers who still frequent the forum, I would have bailed a few months ago.

Sage, my advice to you is to not feel like your strong presence here gives implied consent to the horrible ways some people are treating each other here. I'm glad people speak up when things get out of hand -- as you know I have felt a responsibility to do the same thing on many occasions. We used to not have to do that. I'm bummed that this place has become the new home for so many name-callers and finger-pointers. We'll see how things go, but I'm almost over it. As I've said, I don't belong to any other forums, so when I want to discuss things with a diverse crowd online, or discuss snus (I don't know anyone who uses it), this is it for me. It's also great for a good laugh, but lately it's not worth sorting through all the ignorant crap and getting bummed out to find the good stuff.

With the direction it's gone lately, it might be time to bow out and occasionally check in to see if the members have found a way to communicate with each other respectfully. It's been a long time since I have needed any advice, and there are a few people like you who are always around to answer new questions, so... it's very unfortunate, but snuson is quickly losing its value for me due to way it's changed. Like I've said too many times recently, this forum used to be full of intelligent, informative, friendly, and funny people -- many of those people are still here and new ones are signing up all the time. But more and more it seems to be full of unconstructive arguments and dickhead behavior. We'll see. Like Subtilo, I might not be able to leave But it's no wonder that many people who used to frequent the forum and make great contributions have since disappeared.

Sorry for the rambling. I feel like I have LOTS to say about this place right now. Too bad people who are browsing the internet looking for info on snus have to sort through all of this crap.


EDIT: I made it sound like there are only a handfull of good people here, especially with regard to those who have been around a while. Not true. There are still lots and lots of seemingly great people here. I didn't mean to imply that the good ones are a minority, because I don't believe that to be the case. The vast majority of posters here I have no problem with whatsoever, and most of us know how to enjoy a forum and share information and opinions constructively. Thanks ~ Roo