Does anyone believe that ObamaCare will not cover illegals?

[wa3zrm]

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[justintempler]

Oh yeah, and WHO the **** actually believes the bullshit about Canadian emergency rooms overflowing with people laying in their own urine and feces on stretchers for days at a time...COME ON, for christs sake. CANADA of all places. "DOCTOR, WE'RE OUT OF BANDAGES!!!" "WELL JUST FLIP IT OVER, GOD DAMNIT!!" set foot in Canada and you'll never believe another naysayer. The true story is you'll be well cared for, sponge bathed, and have a nurse to answer your personal phone calls day in and day out.

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[wa3zrm]

I've traveled to Canada extensively. Everything in the video justintempler posted it true. What's not mentioned however are two things:

1. If you are an American and have need of emergency medical care while in Canada, they will not treat you unless you produce a credit card with sufficient funds to cover the costs of what needs to be done; and,

2. While it's true Canadian's love their health care system, they HATE how it is paid for. Just ask any Canadian about their taxes and you'll get an ear full. I know many Canadian's that have moved to the US to get away from Canada's very high tax rates.

The bottom line to this is that one way or another, health care is expensive and needs to be paid for. In Canada you don't have a choice and pay for it through your taxes. In the US, you have a choice not to pay for it. Which way is better... hell if I know. All I do know is that one way or another, health care is very expensive and must be paid for one way or another.

[sgreger1]

Okay, so I was in a shitty mood yesterday. A lot of people were...I'm going to call it 9/11 syndrome. Sorry for bringing the debate to the level of baseless assumptions.

That being said...

I said before that my 2 things were illegals out of the system and TORT reform. Obama hinted that "we should consider" tort reform, however as always did not make it clear if it is something that is going to be in a bill or not, nor did he push the subject.

Obama concedes verification is needed for illegals using exchange

Today, for the first time as far as we know, the administration is backing a provision that would require proof of citizenship before someone could enroll in a plan selected on the exchange.

Census Bureau cuts ties with ACORN
Obama imposing tariff on tire imports from China

Your move, general.

All excelent moves on behalf of our commander in chief. **** china, verify illegals, leave ACORN by the wayside.

I just want to point out that it was the guy who yelled liar at the president (which was uncalled for even IMO) that proded the pres to do something about it. But the point is he claims he will, and that is the right answer. We will see if he delivers.

[sgreger1]

@ Snusophile.


Look, I am all about helping those in need. I agree we are too money hungry here, but it is where we live, so we must work aroundthe human condition (wanting to obtain monitary gain for everything).

The problem is that I see a lot of programs in other countries that work, and yet when we have tried them here, they do not work. Like education. The gov can barely handle what it is currently tasked with providing and the US gov is just not a very responsible or efficient entity.

Even if it works in Canada, I do not believe it will work here.

Like wzarm said, healthcare is expensive, and someone will pay for it. Question is do we leave the individual responsible for their health and what they have to do to fix themselves after a life of snorting coke and playing guitar hero, or do we all as a community pool our money together and pay for his heart surgery.


I am just saying, look outside of the window, look at what government is in charge of right now, do you want that when you go to the Dr. I personally, do not.

[sundog]

Just a few notes on that wonderful Canadian health care system from Wikipedia.

Although life threatening cases are dealt with immediately, some services needed are non urgent and patients are seen at the next available appointment in their local chosen facility.

The median wait time in Canada to see a special physician is a little over four weeks with 89.5% waiting less than 3 months.

The median wait time for diagnostic services such as MRI and CAT scans is two weeks with 86.4% waiting less than 3 months.

The median wait time for surgery is four weeks with 82.2% waiting less than 3 months.

It goes on to say that Canadians like it because they see it as being more fair. Yeah, sure. If I had to wait that long to see a doctor or have a procedure done, I'd shoot somebody.

About 2 years ago I saw my orthopedic surgeon on a Friday morning and had an MRI done on my knees THAT afternoon! Anybody ever get one that fast in Canada?

Had both hips replaced in 2005. No waiting at all. Just scheduled the surgeries when it was convenient for me.

[VBSnus]

About 2 years ago I saw my orthopedic surgeon on a Friday morning and had an MRI done on my knees THAT afternoon! Anybody ever get one that fast in Canada?

Had both hips replaced in 2005. No waiting at all. Just scheduled the surgeries when it was convenient for me.

That's awesome sundog. I can't wait until I can't get knee or hip surgery because I have no insurance.

[sagedil]

Nor do I VBSnus

I guess I could quit trying to pay my debt, declare bankruptcy instead, skip out on my creditors. then *maybe* I could afford to buy an individual plan. Or maybe not even.

[sundog]

What? Obama's not writing you a check right this minute for your insurance? :shock:

I agree that insurance should be more affordable, but not at the cost of me losing my insurance. Have you not read the bill in the House? Millions could lose their private insurance.

You know that's the goal, don't you? The "public option" is meant to eventually move everybody from private insurance to DEPENDENCE on the government.

Personally I don't want Washington D.C. running every little detail of my life. Tobacco users should be the last ones to want government control. All levels of government have been after us for years. Now you want to just give up?

[sgreger1]

Well you see we are re-visiting a problem from a few years ago.

Back then we were willing to give up personal freedoms and our privacy up to allow more government intervention for the purpose of making us more safe.

Today some are willing to give up their personal freedoms and allow more government control to be able to see the Dr.


Its a catch 22, you want to see the Dr, but you also don't want the gov taking over another huge part of America. I think we know unfortunately what will happen in the end.

[sgreger1]

What? Obama's not writing you a check right this minute for your insurance? :shock:

lolololloo. It sounds like something a dick would say but it's true. Frankly it is not the governments role to provide this, and if we let them have it, we have just signed off another 7% of our collective American souls to the same people that have started multiple wars and looted our purses to give trillions to banks and other ulta-corps. They've been doing this for years. We must remember who the enemy is, it is not dems or repubs, it is big government.

The more power we give them, the more they abuse their power, we have seen the reprocusions of this over the last 100 or so years and I think we can all agree we made the wrong choice the last time the country fell into a depression. It's just putting a bandage on the problem by letting the government have more power to "save" us from some impending doom.

[sundog]

I would rather die a slow death than give up my freedom. I steadfastly refuse to give in on this. Some may want to be dependent on government for their every want and need, but not me.

Didn't we all get taught when we were growing up that once we were adults, we would have to be responsible for ourselves? Get an education, get a job, pay your bills, vote, don't get involved in crime, don't have children outside of marriage, invest for your future. All good ideas that seem to be out of vogue nowadays. Just be a grown-up, responsible citizen for Pete's sake!

Just remember, you reap what you sow. Bad decisions over the course of a lifetime could lead to poverty, ill health, and dependence.

[VBSnus]

I would rather die a slow death than give up my freedom. I steadfastly refuse to give in on this. Some may want to be dependent on government for their every want and need, but not me.

Didn't we all get taught when we were growing up that once we were adults, we would have to be responsible for ourselves? Get an education, get a job, pay your bills, vote, don't get involved in crime, don't have children outside of marriage, invest for your future. All good ideas that seem to be out of vogue nowadays. Just be a grown-up, responsible citizen for Pete's sake!

Just remember, you reap what you sow. Bad decisions over the course of a lifetime could lead to poverty, ill health, and dependence.

After all these pages, are you suggesting that the only people who don't have insurance are irresponsible, uneducated, poor, lazy, immoral, or have made bad decisions which lead to that consequence?

At this point, I only ask out of morbid curiosity.

[sundog]

No, but a lot are. In fact, way too many are. I see them every day.

It's possible to be in a jam even if you've done everything right. The few who are in dire circumstances beyond their control could be helped out for far less than a trillion dollars.

I don't mind giving somebody the shirt off my back if they're in need. I give a bunch of $$ to charities. I do very much object to the Federal government doing something that they were never intended to do.

Forced charity is just plain wrong.

[sundog]

No, but a lot are. In fact, way too many are. I see them every day. And didn't you see the word "could" in that last paragraph? Would "may" have been a better word?

It's possible to be in a jam even if you've done everything right. The few who are in dire circumstances beyond their control could be helped out for far less than a trillion dollars.

I don't mind giving somebody the shirt off my back if they're in need. I give a bunch of $$ to charities. I do very much object to the Federal government doing something that they were never intended to do.

Forced charity is just plain wrong.