Does anyone believe that ObamaCare will not cover illegals?

[sundog]

No, but a lot are. In fact, way too many are. I see them every day. And didn't you see the word "could" in that last paragraph? Would "may" have been a better word?

It's possible to be in a jam even if you've done everything right. The few who are in dire circumstances beyond their control could be helped out for far less than a trillion dollars.

I don't mind giving somebody the shirt off my back if they're in need. I give a bunch of $$ to charities. I do very much object to the Federal government doing something that they were never intended to do.

Forced charity is just plain wrong.

[VBSnus]

No, but a lot are. In fact, way too many are. I see them every day. And didn't you see the word "could" in that last paragraph? Would "may" have been a better word?

It's possible to be in a jam even if you've done everything right. The few who are in dire circumstances beyond their control could be helped out for far less than a trillion dollars.

I don't mind giving somebody the shirt off my back if they're in need. I give a bunch of $$ to charities. I do very much object to the Federal government doing something that they were never intended to do.

Forced charity is just plain wrong.

So you don't have a problem with offering fair and available insurance options to everyone, you just have a problem with the subsidies that make it free or cost less for those who can't afford it?

[sgreger1]

Lol, I think he means that in life, you have a series of choices and sometimes even if you make all the right ones, bad things can still happen, no legislation or congress can change that.

If you smoke crack your whole life, you will die young, and not be able to afford treatment to stave of the inevitable for another year or two. Darwinism at it's best.

But, under the new proposal:
If you smoke crack, you will now be able to get expensive treatment, thereby becoming more of a burden on the system than the rest of us, and since you dont pay into it, eventualy the whole program will run out of money



So the question is, do we want to subsidize or make the tax payer pay for the above scenario.

No it is not everyone, but such a huge vast volume of people fit into this catagory. Of most of the low income or no income households, they are usually bad neighborhoods with drugs and gang violence, and people living off other government handouts like welfare for their whole life.

Should we allow them another means to rob the hard working tax payer?




Then the argument from VB_snus is, what about guys like him who are hard working and just can't afford insurance for one reason or another.

I agree, to help people who really need/deserve help, we can do it cheaper than 1 trillion $ and a whole new health care system for everyone.


Do not harm 80% of the population to make the 20% of the population more comfortable.

Health care will never be a right, it will always cost a lot of money, that much is certain.

[VBSnus]

Then the argument from VB_snus is, what about guys like him who are hard working and just can't afford insurance for one reason or another.

No, guys like me are people who are denied insurance because of a pre-existing condition. And people like my mother, my friend, his wife, victims of domestic violence, etc.

[lxskllr]

Insurance is a scam. I payed for insurance for YEARS and very seldom used it. I got layed off, lost my insurance, and my daughter got diabetes. so now I pay for it out of pocket. My plan is the only plan I accept. You should pay out of pocket, what the services really cost, not what's been inflated through insurance bureaucracy, and rampant lawsuits.

[sgreger1]

Insurance is a scam. I payed for insurance for YEARS and very seldom used it. I got layed off, lost my insurance, and my daughter got diabetes. so now I pay for it out of pocket. My plan is the only plan I accept. You should pay out of pocket, what the services really cost, not what's been inflated through insurance bureaucracy, and rampant lawsuits.

Absolutely. In reality, health care should not be that expensive. But like you said, between lawsuits and the insurance companies inflating prices, it has become rediculous, and is why you pay 10$ a pill for a tylenol in the ER.

I am with your orriginal plan Lx, scrap all these mother ****ers and just go back to selling services like a pizza, buy it out of pocket as you need it. No insurance, no government run beaurocracy, all they do is weigh things down and increase cost. A check up should cost me 5$ from what i've seen at my HMO. They look at you, touch you, say okay your good. 5 dollars flat. The fact they bill 300$ is insanity.


If pizza had pizza insurance companies to worry about and big government regulation etc, pizza would be $5,000 a slice. Beurocracy never fixes anything.

[sgreger1]

Then the argument from VB_snus is, what about guys like him who are hard working and just can't afford insurance for one reason or another.

No, guys like me are people who are denied insurance because of a pre-existing condition. And people like my mother, my friend, his wife, victims of domestic violence, etc.

Like I said, for one reason or another. Maybe "not afford" was wrong words. "Cannot obtain" would be better. The problem is that if you remove pre-existing conditions clause, what is going to be put in place to make sure people dont buy insurance only after they are sick. I wish I could buy car insurance AFTER I wreck my ride, that would be hella sweet but would result in a collapse of the system.

[VBSnus]

Insurance is a scam. I payed for insurance for YEARS and very seldom used it. I got layed off, lost my insurance, and my daughter got diabetes. so now I pay for it out of pocket. My plan is the only plan I accept. You should pay out of pocket, what the services really cost, not what's been inflated through insurance bureaucracy, and rampant lawsuits.

Had a fun experience with this today. My wife went in to get a mole removed. Non-cancerous, just a mole she wants to get gone.

She goes to the doctor after a 3 week appointment, the doctor spends 5 minutes with her, says she can do it but doesn't have time today, and she gets charged for an office visit.

She's scheduled to go in in two weeks to get it removed with some ice and a scalpel. Charged as outpatient surgery.

The week after she's scheduled for a follow-up. Charged as an office visit.

Remember the days when you could go in, the doc would git r dun, and you'd go home with one visit out of your wallet?

They did the same thing when my daughter got her food allergy tests. One visit to talk about them, the next visit to get blood drawn, and a final visit to discuss it. All charged when one visit would have done.

[lxskllr]

Had a fun experience with this today. My wife went in to get a mole removed. Non-cancerous, just a mole she wants to get gone.

She goes to the doctor after a 3 week appointment, the doctor spends 5 minutes with her, says she can do it but doesn't have time today, and she gets charged for an office visit.

She's scheduled to go in in two weeks to get it removed with some ice and a scalpel. Charged as outpatient surgery.

The week after she's scheduled for a follow-up. Charged as an office visit.

Remember the days when you could go in, the doc would git r dun, and you'd go home with one visit out of your wallet?

They did the same thing when my daughter got her food allergy tests. One visit to talk about them, the next visit to get blood drawn, and a final visit to discuss it. All charged when one visit would have done.

That's what bothers me about the whole thing, and it isn't limited to medical coverage. The whole world's gotten away from doing what's right in favor of covering their asses, and doing what regulations permit.

It's like taking your car to the garage for a flat tire, they charge you $60(the hourly fee) to diagnose the flat, then schedule you to come in next week so they can fix it(and charge you $60 again). Afterwards they go back to screwing around in the office instead of taking the 10 minutes it requires to fix the tire :^S

[sgreger1]

Insurance is a scam. I payed for insurance for YEARS and very seldom used it. I got layed off, lost my insurance, and my daughter got diabetes. so now I pay for it out of pocket. My plan is the only plan I accept. You should pay out of pocket, what the services really cost, not what's been inflated through insurance bureaucracy, and rampant lawsuits.

Had a fun experience with this today. My wife went in to get a mole removed. Non-cancerous, just a mole she wants to get gone.

She goes to the doctor after a 3 week appointment, the doctor spends 5 minutes with her, says she can do it but doesn't have time today, and she gets charged for an office visit.

She's scheduled to go in in two weeks to get it removed with some ice and a scalpel. Charged as outpatient surgery.

The week after she's scheduled for a follow-up. Charged as an office visit.

Remember the days when you could go in, the doc would git r dun, and you'd go home with one visit out of your wallet?

They did the same thing when my daughter got her food allergy tests. One visit to talk about them, the next visit to get blood drawn, and a final visit to discuss it. All charged when one visit would have done.

OH MY GOD. There is nothing I hate more than this. This is what a freaking hate about HMO's, and EVERY HMO Dr I have ever been to does this. I have to see him 20 million times to properly diagnose something, and another thousand times after he give sme treatment as follow ups.

They see you, sned you home say take an advil and drink water, then you come back they try something else, then finnaly the third time they give you what you need all along.

[VBSnus]

OH MY GOD. There is nothing I hate more than this. This is what a freaking hate about HMO's, and EVERY HMO Dr I have ever been to does this. I have to see him 20 million times to properly diagnose something, and another thousand times after he give sme treatment as follow ups.

They see you, sned you home say take an advil and drink water, then you come back they try something else, then finnaly the third time they give you what you need all along.

Haha, and she's on a BCBS PPO!

The "funniest" part is that when they finally give you what you need, it's for the symptoms only. You'll be back in a few months/years/decades with the ongoing issues if the treat symptoms and not cures.

[sgreger1]

Haha, and she's on a BCBS PPO!

The "funniest" part is that when they finally give you what you need, it's for the symptoms only. You'll be back in a few months/years/decades with the ongoing issues if the treat symptoms and not cures.

I think all Dr's are ****ing scam artists. They gave me this pill and is like yah take this forever basicly, I stopped taking it because it did nothing after about 2 months. I have been coming down off of it for almost a month and it is the most painfull experience I have ever had, I even had to go to the ER last weekend because of it. I go to my HMO PCP, and she is like "yah that can't be from withdraws from that pill, here try these new pills" even though I told her I dont want to take any pills.

I go on-line to research it and apparently everyone who was on this med that I was on had THE SAME EXACT symptoms I did when they stopped taking it. But the Dr's will swear TO YOU FACE that you are crazy and all you need is more pills.

And don't get me started on pediatricians, they never do anything except try and push immunizations every month so I stopped taking my daughter all together, waste of money.


If you dont want a pill or an immunization, western medicine is useless 90% of the time.

They may as well be selling crack. But at least if I were to go buy crack it would not be regulated into costing me $300 per hit like some medications

[sgreger1]

You wanna reform medicine? If Obama can convince everyone to have more conservative treatment to prevent shit, and if he can get the pill companies to quit making pill that treat symptoms instead of curing the problem, I will let him turn this place in soviet Russia for all I care. THAT would be change I can believe in.

But no one has the balls to stop these companies, they are all cronies. I bet you out there somewhere there is a cure for aids but some pharma companie bought the patent for it and then never shared it, and I bet somehwere out there there is a design for a car that runs on water, but that was withheld to.

It seems to me that we could have a lot more progress if it wasn't for some of these huge companies.

IT'S TWENTY-O-NINE WHERE ARE MY FLYING CARS GOD DAMNIT[/b]

[sgreger1]

Obama: Legalize illegals to get them health care


I knew it would come to this. Now we are saying lets make them all legal and that will solve the problems... *facepalm

[VBSnus]

Obama: Legalize illegals to get them health care


I knew it would come to this. Now we are saying lets make them all legal and that will solve the problems... *facepalm

If they can pass any necessary tests and gain citizenship the right way, what's the problem?

Did you see this article: http://www.news9.com/global/story.asp?s=11141949

75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the U.S.

About 92 percent of the people who take the citizenship test pass on their first try, according to immigration service data. However, Oklahoma students did not fare as well. Only about 3 percent of the students surveyed would have passed the citizenship test.