Does anyone believe that ObamaCare will not cover illegals?

[Veganpunk]

Yea, you can't compete with starving. They will find a way in. So you want to throw more taxpayer money in keeping and/or getting immigrants out?

[Pete]

sgreger1

Sorry I got I bit grumpy there but I get a bit fed up with the constant criticism of our health system. I'm just back from the US and was frankly amazed at the lies spouted by some of your news channels.

I would never suggest that the US has our type of system, the culture is too different, but although our system is far from perfect, it works for us.

[sgreger1]

Yea, you can't compete with starving. They will find a way in. So you want to throw more taxpayer money in keeping and/or getting immigrants out?

If I had a criimnal that broke into my house every day and sole 1 million dollars, and I paid someone 500 thousand dollars to stop him, I still have managed to secure 500k I would otherwise not have had.


The money we would get from having Americans work those jobs, who will then buy houses etc, and who will spend the money in the american economy would be huge. Then we can take all the money that they soak up by obtaining services from gov run programs or the ER and now THAT money can go to helping more sick Americans.

I agree with Tom on this, all we have is one pie and we're on our last bite as it is. Even if it costs as much as Obama's entire $1.8 trillion healthcare proposal to get these people out of our system and of the tit of the american government, it would STILL be cheaper than letting the robbery continue for decades to come.

[VBSnus]

sgreger1

Sorry I got I bit grumpy there but I get a bit fed up with the constant criticism of our health system. I'm just back from the US and was frankly amazed at the lies spouted by some of your news channels.

I would never suggest that the US has our type of system, the culture is too different, but although our system is far from perfect, it works for us.

Apparently ours works best for us too. Kill off the bums, lazy people, smokers, fatties, idiots who dared get cancer or some other terminal illness, and of course the immigrants. Everyone who gets a job working for a company where the CEO bends them over daily and deep dicks them is guaranteed coverage, so who cares, right?

**** this country, I'm sick and tired of it. This is what my $40k a year buys me?

[tom502]

I think the worst thing about the US "healthcare" system, is it's all run by big pharma and profits and the empowered insurance companies are like an organized mafia. Add more red tape beauracracy to this, and it will be even worse.

[sgreger1]

sgreger1

Sorry I got I bit grumpy there but I get a bit fed up with the constant criticism of our health system. I'm just back from the US and was frankly amazed at the lies spouted by some of your news channels.

I would never suggest that the US has our type of system, the culture is too different, but although our system is far from perfect, it works for us.

I gotta agree, it is quite obviousely working over there, so if it aint broke dont fix it. no system will be perfect, that is a fact. Also you bring up an excelent point, the culture is a bit different so it would be hard at first if we did both have the same system.


My problem here in america is that we have a ****ed system and are now discussing spending trillions to revamp the system right back to its orriginal ****ed state. Fixing one problem just to create another. I am in favor of reform, but not fake, very expensive reform. And frankly this president and the last one have spent enough of my money as it is.

[sgreger1]

Apparently ours works best for us too. Kill off the bums, lazy people, smokers, fatties, idiots who dared get cancer or some other terminal illness, and of course the immigrants. Everyone who gets a job working for a company where the CEO bends them over daily and deep dicks them is guaranteed coverage, so who cares, right?

**** this country, I'm sick and tired of it. This is what my $40k a year buys me?

lol, hold on let me get this corporate dick out of my butt real quick before I respond. We don't kill off the bums, lazy etc. I don't know where you got that. If you get cancer because youve smoked meth your whole life and then have no money to pay for it because you spent it all on meth, my bad dude but you you have decided your fate.

I think that as a country we need to be more friendly to the self employed. My dad was self employed for years and they definately get ****ed more than anyone else, especially for healthcare. But making a mandate that everyone has to buy insurance so that way you can say "look, now everyone has insurance because of me!" is not the way to do it.

Like you said, even without the pre-existing llness clause, they will find a way, and that is the problem that is not being addressed.

[tom502]

Personally, I think if anything is a "right", it's having a job. If everyone had a job, we could have real "socialized medicine" and do away with the insurance mob. But all for greed and profit, we send more factories to 3rd world nations, and hire underpayed illegals, and never comment on population(very un PC), so we have so much unemployed and poverty. This nation is heading onto the highway to being a 3rd world nation, or a vision of Soylent Green.

But the core answer to most all the nations ills, is, I think, being eco-nationalistic, and keeping the factories and companies in the US, and all citizens must work and contibute, no more welfare and bums, and we need a secure border. Then we could have "free" health care, education, public transport, etc.

But untill we have full national employment, it's just gonna get worse and worse, in every area.

[sgreger1]

Personally, I think if anything is a "right", it's having a job. If everyone had a job, we could have real "socialized medicine" and do away with the insurance mob. But all for greed and profit, we send more factories to 3rd world nations, and hire underpayed illegals, and never comment on population(very un PC), so we have so much unemployed and poverty. This nation is heading onto the highway to being a 3rd world nation, or a vision of Soylent Green.

But the core answer to most all the nations ills, is, I think, being eco-nationalistic, and keeping the factories and companies in the US, and all citizens must work and contibute, no more welfare and bums, and we need a secure border. Then we could have "free" health care, education, public transport, etc.

But untill we have full national employment, it's just gonna get worse and worse, in every area.

I agree so much, I would love to have a system of socialized healthcare where everyone was covered. Hell, I, joe conservative, wouldn't even mind paying a tax for it. This is if everyone was a owrking american that it was covering.

But since I know that the most money will be spent on illegals, the lazy and other such unwanteds, I know that my money will be wasted, and therefore I disagree with this proposal.


You are so right in saying that if you would stop freaking hiring illegals here, and then freaking sending the REST of the jobs overseas for other people to work the factories, we would be a lot better. American companies employ the rest of the world, jsut to sell us stuff. Well that obviousely is nto sustainable because we are running out of money here, and cannot be consumers ONLY.


But how to accomplish this? Regulate companies to not allow them to go overseas? Let the free market handle it? Both of these are failed concepts in regards to accomplishing this goal. And frankly, I do n know how to fix this problem.

But I know what does not fix any problem, and that is revamping the med system at an extremely high price tag to benefit the drug and insurance companies.



Obama's idea of going through and cutting waste to pay for thigns is a great one. but as we know in America, it will not hapen. When he came in he said he woudl go line by line through the budget and do thes same thing, eliminate waste to pay for other things and reduce our deficit, instead he has increased the deficit and signed off on record amounts of pork.

WHY SHOULD I TRUST HIM TO KEEP HIS PROMISE THIS TIME?

[tom502]

The reason, I believe, that the communists join and support the Dem party, is it's all about more government totalitarian control of everything.

[dupee419]

I think it needs to be mentioned that some of these "high-tech drugs" that keep getting mentioned, in many cases have more side-effects and are less effective than the cheaper 30 year old drug for the same thing. Faulting a country for not allowing the prescription of a drug that cost's $500 a week cuz some american pharmaceutical company "needs to make back the R&D money" should not be done. Hell, most of europe already outlives us.

FYI - American insurance companies WILL tell you that you can see a specific Dr for something without their approval, and that your dr can't prescribe a specific drug because of it's price.

The argument about the UK system is politically bent right wing and supports the drivel big pharma and the republican war machine have tried to use to justify charging thousands of dollars for a pill that has less active compound than a bullet (gunpowder weight of course), and more side-effects than the problem it's treating.

Try to find a better reason to oppose universal health care.

[sgreger1]

As always, dupee, the liberals fail to take the bigger picture into account.

Saying that the UK has a higher life expectancy does not necessarily mean that we can blame that all on healthcare. American's are the most obese and have the worst diet/exercise/vacation routine of nearly anyone in the world. To compound that, we are the largest consumer of illicit drugs like cocaine here in america.
Keeping people alive is much harder to do here in America.


The UK system has a million problems and they are highlighted every day on the news headlines. Doesnt mean they have a bad system, just not perfect.


I like Obama's ideas about cutting the waste from things like medicare and using it to fund better care for all, but I cannot believe that he will ACTUALY do that, since he broke that promise last time around when he claimed he would go through the budget line by line eliminating waste in an attempt to lower the deficit.

Instead of doing what he promised, he turned around and ordered a tripple helping of MORE pork, and increased the deficit significantly, all while not eliminating any of the waste in the system.

Why should I believe that he will actually utilize any of the good ideas that he is proposing now? It sounds like mroe campaign trail lies to me.




EDIT: DUPEE: "Try to find a better reason to oppose universal health care."

Also, be aware, that Obama is not proposing universal health care so it is a moot point.

[Snusophile]

Healthcare is not a right, it is a service you buy

**** me, that was uncalled for

are you insane?

Rights are something that are inherint, meaning they cannot be taken or even given away.

That is like saying FOOD is a right. It is not a right, it is a product which you must buy, even though we all agree it is something you need.

Why has the world become so lazy as to believe that the middle class should buy them everything. Why does everyone want something for free?

Health Care requires Dr's, which spend a lot of money to get PHD's and spend decades of their life to get wherethey are. They work rediculous hours. Medication costs money. Expensive high-tech machines cost money. Anyone who thinks these things are God given rights and not a service you have to pay for is

a) retarded
b) does not understand how we operate here in America

I understand perfectly how we operate here in America: for profit! The "what's in it for me?" generation. Sometimes you have to do what's RIGHT instead of what's profitable. I really don't get why you're opposed to health care. There is nothing free in this world, but give me a ****ing break! "MY TAX DOLLARS!" Dude, get off your high horse. We're talking nickels and dimes here. You're not putting Obama's girls through college yourself. There are two things you need to come to terms with in this life: death and taxes. You are not going to be bankrupted by Obama's health option. You will save money. I assure you. Also, it's a public option, so you can keep paying outrageous sums of money for sub-par health insurance while the greedy fat cat scum keep getting richer or take the public option. As for illegal aliens..Get over it! They're already mooching off the health care system. If anything, this will make it more difficult for them if a special government issued photo ID health card is issued.

Doctors are the biggest cheats in the world. What ever happened to practicing medicine because you cared about the patient, not about how much money the patient can cough up. MD and PhD are two different things. We landed on the moon in 1969, not 1967 (wtf?) 9/11 was not an inside job, and Bush was not as stupid as popular opinion led you to believe.

We are in Afghanistan because we were attacked, much like we were at Pearl Harbor. We knew who was behind it the day it happened, his work was unmistakable and his name was Osama Bin Laden. Iraq should have been finished in 1991 when we were still fighting an organized army with conventional warfare (we can actually win those wars, we killed 20,000 iraqi army soldiers in 4 months and lost less than 300 of our own)

Oh yeah, and WHO the **** actually believes the bullshit about Canadian emergency rooms overflowing with people laying in their own urine and feces on stretchers for days at a time...COME ON, for christs sake. CANADA of all places. "DOCTOR, WE'RE OUT OF BANDAGES!!!" "WELL JUST FLIP IT OVER, GOD DAMNIT!!" set foot in Canada and you'll never believe another naysayer. The true story is you'll be well cared for, sponge bathed, and have a nurse to answer your personal phone calls day in and day out.

To clarify, I am neither Democrat nor Republican. I learn towards conservative values, but couldn't give a damn about political affiliation.

Any other things I need to touch base on? Okay, GOOD! Class dismissed!

[VBSnus]

Okay, so I was in a shitty mood yesterday. A lot of people were...I'm going to call it 9/11 syndrome. Sorry for bringing the debate to the level of baseless assumptions.

That being said...

I said before that my 2 things were illegals out of the system and TORT reform. Obama hinted that "we should consider" tort reform, however as always did not make it clear if it is something that is going to be in a bill or not, nor did he push the subject.

Obama concedes verification is needed for illegals using exchange

Today, for the first time as far as we know, the administration is backing a provision that would require proof of citizenship before someone could enroll in a plan selected on the exchange.

Census Bureau cuts ties with ACORN
Obama imposing tariff on tire imports from China

Your move, general.

[wa3zrm]