holy crap! look at this! they are marching on the capitol!!

[sgreger1]

lol, we are tlaking about the same government who pays 1200 for a hammer and overcharges for everything. The same government who charges you a fee if they make a mistake, like my license was suspended for no reason recently due to a court mixup, but I have to pay a 10$ admin fee to get it back.

Our nation was supposed to operate on a limited government, mainly composed of state governments, with the feds having little to no power to do anything other than maintain a standing army and handle foreign relations. The fact we decided to copy everyone else and let them run our schools etc is the reason why we are in this mess.

So tell me why, rabbit, are you wanting to go further into the hole?

[spike]

thats a simple answer...we are retarded.

[sgreger1]

Why do all the questions I ask about why my life is the way it is always result in an answer of: "Maybe i'm just retarded".

Perhaps I should see a DR.

[spike]

YOU arent retarded..ourselves as a country/government.

[Allergy]

With no thumbs.. how does she light the cigarettes? *head scratch*

[zmanzero]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/max-bl..._b_285361.html

yea, holy crap! i guess ignorance tends to pool to itself.

[Slydel]

Our government has gone the way of well.....once the people realize that they can get something for free, they will always elect those officials that promise to steal from the "haves" and give them to the "have nots". This is a sign of the decline of our government. It is one of the last signs that everything has turned to shit and we will no longer be a super-power any longer. A nice quote: "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." The end......

[zmanzero]

yea, it's just a bummer that we had to rob ourselves to keep this economy afloat. should have gone back to the soup lines of the great depression in my view, but what the hell do i know. at least the rich got richer, right?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert..._b_285578.html :cry:

[Slydel]

I will have to refrain myself from saying what I would like.

I will agree that the rich got richer due to their greed. They knew that they would be bailed out, besides that FNut Barney Frank forced banks to loan people money that could not possibly pay their loans back but they ""deserved"" a mortgage. The more money we print, the less the dollar is worth. I guess there will only be old people waiting to get their soup because they are the ones on fixed incomes that are paid only in interest. The interest rate is currently very low, the inflation rate is currently somewhat low as well, but when you are only obtaining a 2% return on your investments and inflation is going to go to 4, 6, 8, or maybe even 10% than you might as well start heading to the soup lines. By the way, FDR was one of the most corrupt presidents in the history of the U.S.

[zmanzero]

yea, at least bush kept a tight eye on things. that man was as sharp as a tack.

[Slydel]

I am not sure if you are being sarcastic.

In response I can say that GB is still a waste of space and Obama O is not interested in helping anyone but himself and his real supporters that have been behind the scenes, IMO.

[zmanzero]

i always wondered how shit hit the fan - http://laughingsquid.com/an-animated...sis-of-credit/

[Slydel]

I watched the video. Quite informative, yet simplified, it does suffice to explain the situation. Interesting that they knock Greenspan with regards to him keeping the interest rates so low for so long. Greenspan will never admit that he ****ed up. Also, I think they forgot to mention that insurers tended to rate everything AAA. They were part of the problem as well. Our interest rates are low again... What is going to happen now? All of this meddling created numerous problems. Can we keep the interest rates at a moderate level so we will not see so many highs and lows? I don't think the fed can keep their damns hands off of the interest rate, even though they seem to do more harm than good in the long run.

[spirit72]

. By the way, FDR was one of the most corrupt presidents in the history of the U.S.

Yeah, so was Nixon.

[VBSnus]

yea, it's just a bummer that we had to rob ourselves to keep this economy afloat. should have gone back to the soup lines of the great depression in my view, but what the hell do i know. at least the rich got richer, right?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert..._b_285578.html :cry:

We don't have the balls. Conservatives may be willing to take a trip to DC to protest spending, Democrats may be willing to hang effigies of Bush to protest war, but we as a people don't have the guts to really dig in and try hard.

We're a nation of consumers. Without our diet coke, McDonalds fries, Kenmore appliances, Wal-mart superstores, etc...we're nothing.

This isn't to say that the "country boy can survive mentality" is wholly correct, because that leaves no room for progress. We'd never grow or aspire, just sit on the porch with the dogs until the wife's got supper done. I believe progress is good as well, that we have to move forward and discover, or we'll drive ourselves into the ground.

When a society becomes too rigid, something will come along and break it. Whether it's a plague or a madman, there will be catastrophe followed by great change. It's an incredible phenomenon that happens at the personal level, family level, community level, etc.

Now, for the remarks on how people will get lazy if they can't get things for free, etc, etc etc....Damnit, just stop it. I have no health insurance and can't get health insurance because I had a gallbladder attack after eating some crab. Cholesterol fine, blood sugar fine, bone marrow fine, every damned statistic fine. But I've been denied by BCBS, Anthem, Aetna, Trigon, UHC, Golden Rule, and Kaiser Permanente. Not higher rate, not with a rider, DE-****ING-NIED. All this, despite the fact that I pay $40k a year in taxes and have only required $700 in care in the last THREE YEARS. People who still think insurance reform will only help the stupid and lazy are nothing but ignorant.

My mother cannot retire until she's Medicare age because she won't have health insurance. She has tons of money saved which she's saved all her life to retire at 55. Because of health insurance, this dream has been taken away from her. Her husband's 60 hour a week managerial position does not offer health care because of the costs.

A friend of mine worked for a shipyard here in Hampton Roads. His wife became pregnant. Unfortunately, she became very sick and was told she may miscarry. She had to quit her nursing job. My buddy lost his shipyard job due to a lost contract. She's pregnant with inadequate healthcare coverage now. No private company would cover her due to that, and my friend has been denied private coverage because he has asthma.

This country has grown into a bulging disgusting heap. Our food products are made of the worst possible ingredients and the most disgusting possible farms. Our medicines are aimed at sales and symptoms, not cures. Our TVs have thousands of channels. Our banks are owned by foreign governments. Our public school system (not colleges) are shit compared to the rest of the first world. We don't work for crap anymore, we just expect it.

I DO NOT BLAME THIS ON GOVERNMENT SERVICES. I agree with all of you that we have become a complacent and slovenly society. A society of needy people who don't value an honest days work and don't know what it means to have it hard. I get it. But I don't delude myself into thinking fair healthcare is going to destroy our country when in fact it will SAVE OUR LIVES. So, why are we the way we are?

1) Cheap shit. Companies, despite regulations from the government, import horrible products from China from base ingredients to finished products. These products contain hazardous and/or shoddy materials and are the product of slave labor. We as a people don't see this; we only see the final product that our little kid wants, or that we feel we need. Due to the flood of cheap crap on the market, it has become impossible for the common entrepreneur to bring something new and worthwhile to the table.

This also includes food. Our meat products come from animals which have been plumped with drugs and hormones, antibiotics to make sure they don't die from the drugs and hormones, and slaughtered improperly in packed pens. Your beef doesn't come from the cows you see on the side of I-40, it comes from FACTORIES. Chickens dieing of leukemia provide your eggs and fried chicken. Your vegetables aren't being produced by a smiling farmer in a straw hat, but a multi-millionaire running an automated chemical farm. Your sweet tea no longer contains leaves, sugar, and a touch of lemon but high fructose corn syrup, maltodextrin, monosodium glutamate, natural and artificial flavors that these companies don't have to provide.

For $1 you have a choice. You can buy 170 calories in fresh broccoli or 1000-1200 calories of potato chips. You can buy a small slice or two of fresh cut meat, or a pack of 12 high fat calorie rich hot dogs. You can buy a little bit of fresh fruit, or a whole lot of crackers and ho-hos.

2) Endless availability. Supply and demand has gone topsy turvy, folks. There's no longer a supply of food we have to worry about. Farms don't need to worry about "bad crop years". You will absolutely be able to pick up 3 packs of bacon and a few loaves of bread. Demand gets higher as we get fatter, and the supply is seemingly endless.

3) Patience. We've come to expect things quick because the market can give it to us quick. As a result, we're impatient for anything we can get our hands on. You can nuke a 600 calorie meal faster than you can steam vegetables. You can stop at Applebee's and have a 1800 calorie dinner faster than you can fire up a grill and cook something yourself. Supply and demand has been replaced by Supply, Demand, and Time to Delivery. Again, supply is endless, demand is growing, and time to delivery gets faster and faster every day.

4) Advertising. Gone are the days where a company had to actually use their money on a quality product. Now, most of the money goes into trying to get people to buy their product as quick as possible. Parts and labor from foreign countries, massive capital and little to no accountability. Customer service to the lowest bidder in countries which barely speak English. And the money can go to huge executive salaries and tons and tons of advertising. There are probably more advertised diseases in this country than there are diseased indiviuals.

5) Low standards. Look at snus. The American crap is just that: crap. We're able to to sell chemical compounds at higher prices than foreign countries can sell their natural and superior products!

But wait! My life is EXPENSIVE. If things are as cheap as I say, why do I pay so much?

Because you're getting the things you WANT extraordinarily cheap and easy. The things you NEED are still expensive and sometimes based on imaginary figures.

1) The food your body needs to be healthy is expensive. I'm not talking Organic food. I'm talking the food on the outer edge of the supermarket...remember that spot? Not the freezers, not the canned goods, but the fresh fruits and vegetables, the meats from your local butcher, the milks, the yogurts, the juices, the oils.

2) Your house or apartment is more expensive than it should be. Speculation accounts for much of the inflation in the housing market. Not true demand, but speculated demand. Banks are able to figure out many ways to get your house funded with many tools to reclaim your home and their money if things go wrong.

3) Energy and utilities are going up all the time. Demand is high and monopolies are there to service your every need (including gas). For a price.

And finally...

4) When the effects of all the bad shit you've consumed and lived around your entire life finally take its toll, you will need medical care. Perhaps you're overweight, or have heart problems, or diabetes, or cholesterol problems. Perhaps you have cancer, or god knows what else. And when you need care, you will get it. IF you have coverage.

Sure, you can go to the ER even without coverage. And you'll be giving up your bed before the guy with BCBS PPO. And going to the ER doesn't solve all your problems, it provides emergency care. Ongoing drug needs, check-ups, physicals, follow-ups, monitoring, all those will require constant visits.

At the end of the day, after you've been stressed to all hell by the needs of your company, after you've been stuffed to all hell by the food industry, after you've been annoyed to all hell by the Indian help desk guy for your cell phone company, after all these things, the healthcare industry is there to treat your symptoms for the rest of your life and keep making money off of you. And the health insurance companies are there to ensure (not insure) they get a slice of that juicy pie.

UNIVERSAL ACCESS TO QUALITY SERVICES DO NOT MAKE PEOPLE COMPLACENT. It is the ready supply of CRAP services and goods that make us complacent. The fact that we have shown, as a nation, that we will settle for SHIT as long as it looks nice, consequences be damned, that makes us complacent. It is the fact that we allow companies to bend us over backwards and gang **** us that makes us complacent.

I'll get into what action I believe can and must be taken in another post. This one has my fingers cramped after eating a bucket of fried chicken with a side of corn syrup.