Electric Cars charging while you drive

[Cy]

They'll get my ICE when they pry it from my cold dead hands

[Choice]

LoL...


Or until you have an electric blow your doors off.

[sgreger1]

@ Choice


I agree we need to be spending more money in the technology sector, but the pipe dream of replacing fossil fuels with just electricity will only result in 1 thing: Higher electricity costs.

you would save the environment and perhaps make cars more efficient, but the amount of electricity that we produce will have to go up and the fossil fuel industry will just take over the electricity industry and charge you more than it's worth. There is no getting around that.


The problem with electricity being beemed from the road is that there are a lot of studies coming out that would suggest that electromagnetic energy can cause a lot of damage to human beings and create negative health effects. Everything from cell phones to high power cables. Even if the cars had some type of shielding (expensive), pedestrians would be subject to this.


I think they just need to make electric batteries more efficient, and they need to come up with better superconductors that can operate a higher temperates to where it would be practical to use it in an automobile.

Retrofitting the entire grid of streets/highways/freeways would cost an epic amount of money and currently the gov cannot even afford to upkeep the existing roads, despite high taxes and often times toll booths which raise in price every few years.


Speaking of which, in San Francisco they are raising the toll rates YET ANOTHER dollar, so now every time you go to work or enter/leave the city it's gonna cost 5$.

[Cy]

LoL...


Or until you have an electric blow your doors off.

Ive seen some "high powered" electric motors in one offf custom cars but I doubt it will be in my lifetime when the mighty Prius starts causing whiplash and tearin up tracks :lol:

[sgreger1]

LoL...


Or until you have an electric blow your doors off.

Ive seen some "high powered" electric motors in one offf custom cars but I doubt it will be in my lifetime when the mighty Prius starts causing whiplash and tearin up tracks :lol:

Yah, insofar the prius sucks at life. Other than being fuel efficient it is extremely ugly and over priced. I'd rather just pay extra for the gas.


The only cool electric car i've seen is the Tesla. The one I saw in real life though was a lot smaller than I had imagined, like a cross between a miata and a ferrari lol.

[Choice]

@ Choice
I agree we need to be spending more money in the technology sector, but the pipe dream of replacing fossil fuels with just electricity will only result in 1 thing: Higher electricity costs.

Absolutely Agree-- We need to spend a few orders of magnitude more on this issue. -- Honestly the stakes in regards to this is the most terminally important issue facing our species in recorded history... in fact it may very well be the last if we do not remove --head from rectum.

you would save the environment and perhaps make cars more efficient, but the amount of electricity that we produce will have to go up and the fossil fuel industry will just take over the electricity industry and charge you more than it's worth. There is no getting around that.

Ok it is new paradigm time.

I must just say to start off.

Saving the Environment-

While the number of Exo-planetoids found outside our solar system is at around 4000 known detection- all in our nearby neighborhood (4-20+ light years) None are in the "Golden Zone" or even the size range we need- (smallest found thus far is 4 earth masses).

Point being... This is our only home.

Saving/Fixing/Having are more Symbiotic relationship with the Earth means, Saving the Human species... although for some that connection is hard to make due to political, religious, or any other host of personal points of view which loves to erect massive walls between ideas, ideology and self.

I only say this because of the disdain you hear from time to time that hovers around this subject. It is certainly ignorant headed towards stupid in my opinion, but.. at least ignorance is curable, while stupid is forever.

So with that out there onto the rest.

In the future we need to head into a direction that is vastly different from our current Robber Barron 2.0 system. What that means is How we have done things is not how we are going to have to do things.

I do not see power companies filling the same niche...(and many of them see this and are trying to adapt-)

I do see our power generated on site, and locally with renewable energy as it is the only feasible way we can maintain any semblance of modernity or progress.

The days of old are most certainly gone, as is the oil that fueled it.

We are at Peak Oil now.

The support structure that is holding this system up is made of wafer thin salt crystals, this Great "Recession" has only just begun I fear... And doing things the way we did them is simply going to destine us into a abyss we will never return from.

In fact it is just going to get us there faster.

There is a whole lot of wasted space in this country that receives massive amounts of energy ---our roofs.

For the price of 5 years worth of Electricity at current rates, I could purchase a solar panel system that would exceed my needs by 40%- putting that back to the grid ie: my addition to the pot.

This segment of the response is getting very long and I could continue and probably will in other posts... I just need to say again.

In the last Great Depression, we got out of it essentially by building infrastructure and the industrialization caused by WW2.

Now .. Do we want to see a WW3?

No

But could we use the infrastructure and industrialization boost??

Absolutely, So where could we aim that barrel?

Might as well use what petroleum we have left in getting our hulking mass up and over the next step in our civilization... or regression is all we have left.

The problem with electricity being beemed from the road is that there are a lot of studies coming out that would suggest that electromagnetic energy can cause a lot of damage to human beings and create negative health effects. Everything from cell phones to high power cables. Even if the cars had some type of shielding (expensive), pedestrians would be subject to this.

Actually..

I think it would be akin to a third rail and mostly placed on Highways where no one walks or lingers for long.

We can shield EM inexpensively and I honestly and not worried about any of that as much as I am at what we face if we do not take the next step..

Mad Max is a cool movie... not so cool of a life or legacy to leave.

I think they just need to make electric batteries more efficient, and they need to come up with better superconductors that can operate a higher temperates to where it would be practical to use it in an automobile.

They do.. and they are achieving impressive gains in battery technologies.

Superconductors have sorta lagged a bit... but once more minds are focused on the proper heading, those hurdles will be conquered.

Retrofitting the entire grid of streets/highways/freeways would cost an epic amount of money and currently the gov cannot even afford to upkeep the existing roads, despite high taxes and often times toll booths which raise in price every few years.

We absolutely MUST upgrade our energy grid...

Right now we are a observed record low for the level of Sun spots we have at the moment... there have been a mere tiny handful of them this year. (The earths magnetosphere is also pathetically weak right now)

One of the reasons the Earth is sorta cool in temperatures, and we are heading into a REALLY ****ing Cold winter here, UNLESS- The Sunspot cycle kicks in and starts hitting its Maximum.

When the Sun is in its Maximum it spits out a lot of CME's -

The way our current grid is set up, and coupled with the current condition of our magnetosphere-- If we get blasted by one- It is stone age time.

--

However I do not think we will have to retrofit all of the roads with these charge up systems, just the highways.

We cannot afford not to... We need to do this stuff way more then we need to outspend the entire world combined for military spending.

Sorry so long for one post..

But I really dig this issue and can barely help myself.

[Choice]

LoL...


Or until you have an electric blow your doors off.

Ive seen some "high powered" electric motors in one offf custom cars but I doubt it will be in my lifetime when the mighty Prius starts causing whiplash and tearin up tracks :lol:

I hope you live long enough to watch this 72 datsun

:lol:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4Cf89tawZX8&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4Cf89tawZX8&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[sgreger1]

@ Choice


Seems I have a competitor for who can post the longest rants on Snuson lol, currently it has been between me and VBSnus lol.



Check this out man, this company claims to be working on an electric drive with a superconductor that would allow it to go 300 miles on a single charge

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2009/10/eestor/

I'm very anti-green movement because to me it screams of ways for the dems to tax us more via programs like cap-and-trade. But I do realize that it is time, as you so well described it, for a paradign shift.


Your right, even if there were other planets we could go to, right now we cannot even get the budget to go to the moon again, probbaly wont leave our solar system for a few hundred more years, let alone colonize anything. The sun cycle is at a low right now and in the future it will gain momentum, so we should probbaly start acting now.


While the idea of solar energy seems the most obviouse, the technology is still expensive. And even putting that aside, you have to realize how much the world has invested in Big Oil. First of all, the petrolium lobby is one of the hugest, and they have a lot of power. Secondly, companies like Exxon etc are publicly traded companies whom most American's own a piece of via their 401k's or other retirement investment plans.


If they stop profitting it will be bad for those who have been saving for retirement.

Also, oil is primarily traded in the US $, it is probbaly the largest reason that our dollar still remains whatever little value it has left.

If there was no oil being sold in US $, or less oil anyways, it would mean less demand for the $ and the value of the $ could drop very significantly in a very short period of time.


The key to this thing is to try to convince the Big Oil guys to start dealing with renewable energy. But the bottom line is that they will be looking for a profit, so while science may be ready to deliver some state of the art energy production methods, the money is going to stay in markets that will make them more money, not help mankind.

Sucks, but it's the truth.

Also, many would argue that we are not at peak oil by a longshot, but we should try getting away from using it as a form of energy because petroleum is used to make a plethora of other things like plastics, rubber etc. In the future we will still need petrolem even if our cars don't run on it.




On to you last point, the WWII comment. With this we agree completely, we had a great thing going during WWII in that we became a manufacturing center and made our own hihg quality goods. Nowadays we have moved closer towards a model of buying everything from China.

We need to get back into the manufacturing thing, not sure how to accomplish this.



Even if we do accomplish some big energy shift, and used nuclear/solar/wind/ocean power, or some of the more exotic things like using high powered lasers to create fusion with hydrogen particles, we still face the possibility of a sun spot destroying our grid.



All I can say, is hope for the best, have a month or two worth of beans/rice/canned goods and guns, and well, just hope for the best.


I still think we should quit wasting money on these wars and throw those trillions into the space program. I maintain my stance that there is a lot to profit from space once our technology is right, and whoever manages to find the first big thing and be able to harvest/mine it and bring it back to earth will own the next century.



Look at the moon, it is abundant in a certain compound (i forget what it is, maybe helium3 or something) that can be used to create massive amounts of clean energy. It is something rare on earth but in infinite quantities on the moon. If we could find a way to make space flight cheaper and harvest it, that could mean a lot of profit /energy for us.


But the reality is that politics will be politics, and change or progress will not be seen any time soon.

[Choice]

@ Choice


Seems I have a competitor for who can post the longest rants on Snuson lol, currently it has been between me and VBSnus lol.

LoL -

as long as people hang on and read it if they find interest in it.. I can keep it going.

I prefer in depth conversations anyway... so many of them are shallow and insubstantial to the issues.

I'm very anti-green movement because to me it screams of ways for the dems to tax us more via programs like cap-and-trade.

This is a substantial can of worms.

I have more of a problem with the way we spend our tax dollars.

I understand that there are some necessary evils that are needed, I also understand the need to restrict and cage these evils. We have to adjust the way we spend what we currently pay.

But I do realize that it is time, as you so well described it, for a paradign shift.

Yes sir.. Overdue in fact.

While the idea of solar energy seems the most obviouse, the technology is still expensive.

It is sorta- Mainly its cost comes into lack of investment, demand, etc..

However there have been some MASSIVE breakthroughs in Solar derived electricity - One is how they altered silicone turning it black and raising its sensitivity to light by 400%.

Another is a nano coating that lets light in but not out...

Another is fabricating non silicone panels..

Also to consider- Its cost is somewhat high - Upfront! yet it cannot be beat when we think of this in the long term.

For example I live in Wisconsin. Here we have a top 5 taxed state!

Yet one program we have is this

The solar panel package I mentioned was not cutting edge in terms of technology, yet it is as for what is available!

It is 18-20K total.

The Fed Government gives a 15% rebate to the total cost of the system.

My state gives me 35% on top of it, bringing it up to 50% of cost.

So 10 grand.

10 grand for a system that will most likely (depending on your use) give you a small check from the power company (for now) because they have to buy the power you do not use.

That 10 grand would obviously be financed, and could be killed as a bill in roughly 5 years simply by paying the bill with the system that you would already be spending on Electricity...

The panels last at least 50 years..

Is 10 grand worth 45 years of no or tiny power bills? -- Even getting cut back a check for overflow?

Of course it is.

Its price in terms of environmental impact is priceless.

Much better to fund and expand programs like that then it is to fund another stupid warplane that cannot even fly in the goddamn rain!!.

nd even putting that aside, you have to realize how much the world has invested in Big Oil.

I certainly do- However they are running out of product and they know it.

First of all, the petrolium lobby is one of the hugest, and they have a lot of power.

Their days are in the twilight.

Secondly, companies like Exxon etc are publicly traded companies whom most American's own a piece of via their 401k's or other retirement investment plans.

Yes sir... but for how much longer?

The new paradigm is going to have to fill the massive gaps and raise the floor joists in the ground floor....

This recent flush of the market is going to happen again..

We will be starting to see emergent technologies take over where the other market juggernauts once were, yet can no longer sustain.

If they stop profitting it will be bad for those who have been saving for retirement.

Yup.. Auto Unions being invested into Petro stocks have kept them on the side of not raising fuel efficiencies...

Its called being bought...

Although if we do not turn it around it will not matter what the "market" says about anything.

IMO they will die by the measure they pillaged with.

Also, oil is primarily traded in the US $, it is probbaly the largest reason that our dollar still remains whatever little value it has left.

Yup.. hence why China gets first crack at Iraqi oil... after all they did pay for it.

Now that's GEO-stratagem .. lol

If there was no oil being sold in US $, or less oil anyways, it would mean less demand for the $ and the value of the $ could drop very significantly in a very short period of time.

Hopefully we can transition before its too late.

The key to this thing is to try to convince the Big Oil guys to start dealing with renewable energy. But the bottom line is that they will be looking for a profit, so while science may be ready to deliver some state of the art energy production methods, the money is going to stay in markets that will make them more money, not help mankind.
Sucks, but it's the truth.

Yup that is in the old paradigm...

Well I think they are going to evaporate and be consolidated, we will wind up still having a power company of sorts but it is not really going to be for profit as power generation will be a local endeavor, we may still have to pay fee's to keep guys n gals to maintain our lines, windmills and other machines.

As for profit...

Also, many would argue that we are not at peak oil by a longshot, but we should try getting away from using it as a form of energy because petroleum is used to make a plethora of other things like plastics, rubber etc. In the future we will still need petrolem even if our cars don't run on it.

They can argue that .. but they are wrong... and vastly outnumbered.

We are at peak... It is inevitable that what happened in America in the 70's would happen in the rest of the world after 3 decades of decadence and growth...

You know this is fact because of the sources of Oil we are tapping into now...

Tar Sands for ****s sake...

And dont let people FOOL you and tell you that we have MORE OIL in the WEST COAST of the US then was in all of Saudi Arabia...

Bullshit..

We have Oil Shale.. where the petroleum is trapped in ROCK...

In order to get the very crude and heavy oil that is contained in the shale.. they have to expend MASSIVE amounts of energy to HEAT the rock up to around 4-600C and at the same time keep the rock surrounding this hot spot cold by running refrigerated water... This is an area of the country that has limited water supply as it is..

Tar Sands.. pffsh that's another bottom of the barrel desperation only seen demonstrated by hardcore drug addicts drinking hairspray for a buzz or huffing gasoline or gold paint...

Its pathetic.

On to you last point, the WWII comment. With this we agree completely, we had a great thing going during WWII in that we became a manufacturing center and made our own hihg quality goods. Nowadays we have moved closer towards a model of buying everything from China.

We need to get back into the manufacturing thing, not sure how to accomplish this.

With rebuilding our infrastructure and making ourselves energy sufficient.

Even if we do accomplish some big energy shift, and used nuclear/solar/wind/ocean power, or some of the more exotic things like using high powered lasers to create fusion with hydrogen particles, we still face the possibility of a sun spot destroying our grid.

I have faith that we will pull our heads out from our ass and do what needs to get done.

Although I prefer to see the solutions read.. Geothermal/Solar/Wind/Bio/Hydro

In terms of the Sun, certainly there is always that possibility... although there are things we can do to prepare.

All of that plus the new sectors being mobilized is the only thing that is going to get us out of this pit.

All I can say, is hope for the best, have a month or two worth of beans/rice/canned goods and guns, and well, just hope for the best.

Got that stuff.. but honestly that is not sustainable.

Action and adding your voice to the positive is at least something.

I still think we should quit wasting money on these wars and throw those trillions into the space program. I maintain my stance that there is a lot to profit from space once our technology is right, and whoever manages to find the first big thing and be able to harvest/mine it and bring it back to earth will own the next century.

Agree 100%

We blow so much tax money on the military and the media/military/corporate/industrial complex its disgusting.

There are better ways to blow Trillions of dollars.

Look at the moon, it is abundant in a certain compound (i forget what it is, maybe helium3 or something) that can be used to create massive amounts of clean energy. It is something rare on earth but in infinite quantities on the moon. If we could find a way to make space flight cheaper and harvest it, that could mean a lot of profit /energy for us.

Yup Helium 3 isotopes are plentiful up there...

Honestly though by that time doing it would be feasible we are not going to need it.

But the reality is that politics will be politics, and change or progress will not be seen any time soon.

I think reality is going to force change and progress like it or not.

[sgreger1]

I have more of a problem with the way we spend our tax dollars.

I understand that there are some necessary evils that are needed, I also understand the need to restrict and cage these evils. We have to adjust the way we spend what we currently pay.

We have plenty of money in circulation here, but like you said, it is wasted too often. For a great example, come visit California, we are richer than most countries and yet broker than most countries... it's sad really, the dems AND moree recently now the republicans are taxing us to death, all while using that money for pet projects, meanwhile the environmentalist lobby has created a drought here by convincing congress to redirect a majority of our drinking water back into the ocean to save the Delta Smelt fish from getting caught in the turbines.

Because of the green nazi's here, they had to shut down a huge amount of our farms in central california, which has resulted ins 40% unenmployment rate in the farming community.

It is sorta- Mainly its cost comes into lack of investment, demand, etc..

However there have been some MASSIVE breakthroughs in Solar derived electricity - One is how they altered silicone turning it black and raising its sensitivity to light by 400%.

You are correct, with more demand it will become cheaper, like it already has.

When I lived in the desert in Palmdale my family was planning on doing this, but we couldn't re-fi the house for enough money. This was back in the day where solar was even more expensive. We have good tax credits here now, and a lot of places here use solar already. My apartment complex I currently live in uses solar power.



However, as a realist, I must be skeptical in ever thinking that the energy company/lobby will go away. Yes we are seeing big players fail, but the people running all of this don't go away, they just move thier money elsewhere. These people will not be going away in our lifetime, that much is for sure.

And dont let people FOOL you and tell you that we have MORE OIL in the WEST COAST of the US then was in all of Saudi Arabia...

Once again, this is the enviro-commies holding us back. THere is a lot of oil (not tar sand or oil shale) in the US and particularly off it's coasts. The problem is that the greenie's won't let us drill here because they feel it is bad for the environment so we should instead continue buying from foreign dictators like Iran and Venezuela.

With rebuilding our infrastructure and making ourselves energy sufficient.

This is a good idea, but how to accomplish it? Look at Obama, he (and it's not his fault, he's just inexperienced) though he could throw several hundred billion at this and it would just work itself out, we would rebuild infrastructure, create shovel ready jobs, and go green. Problem is that that's not how it worked, and a majority of the moeny is being funneled into dead end pet projects or used for nonesense. This is the problem, government likes to throw money at problems with no oversight.

We blow so much tax money on the military and the media/military/corporate/industrial complex its disgusting.

There are better ways to blow Trillions of dollars.

As a veteran myself, I believe the military is one of our most important assets, and keeping it well funded and up to date should be a big priority, seing as we are the sole remaining superpower and all. I think we've proved our point in these wars and it's time to come home. It's too expensive and there is no measurable success since we are fighting against a guerilla force comprised of militant religious fanatics.

I say bring them home, but I still believe that maintaining a strong well funded military will be in our best interests in the future because tention is building and WWIII could be closer than we thought.

Once the water starts running out on this planet, and the food supplies get low, there will be war, and I want to be the one drinking/eating when it all goes down.

I think reality is going to force change and progress like it or not.

Well, it's been waiting for 10,000 years or more, i'm sure it'll come along someday. Untill then, the world stays the same.

[Choice]

And dont let people FOOL you and tell you that we have MORE OIL in the WEST COAST of the US then was in all of Saudi Arabia...

Once again, this is the enviro-commies holding us back. THere is a lot of oil (not tar sand or oil shale) in the US and particularly off it's coasts. The problem is that the greenie's won't let us drill here because they feel it is bad for the environment so we should instead continue buying from foreign dictators like Iran and Venezuela.

We hit peak oil in this country before "enviro-commies" had anyone listen to them.

We cannot drill our way out of this problem...

The only way we are not hitting peak in the world is if oil is abiotic, and I severely doubt that it is.. or even if the process would be able to meet our withdrawal rate...

Second of all this is one of the inherent problems with ancient economic system we have.

No one really KNOWS what is left because corporations privately hold resources.

What we do know is we have reached peak production capacity, that the fields that are left to tap are not enough to supplant the fields we already have tapped.

We should know what resources we have as that information is vital for the survival of the species, which should take precedence over paper and digital money...

With rebuilding our infrastructure and making ourselves energy sufficient.

This is a good idea, but how to accomplish it? Look at Obama, he (and it's not his fault, he's just inexperienced) though he could throw several hundred billion at this and it would just work itself out, we would rebuild infrastructure, create shovel ready jobs, and go green. Problem is that that's not how it worked, and a majority of the moeny is being funneled into dead end pet projects or used for nonesense. This is the problem, government likes to throw money at problems with no oversight.

We demand it-

Roll a march on washington demanding modernizing every system we have.... from Power, Road, Rail, Economic, etc etc...

We need to upgrade - period.

Even our Founders knew that crap, which is why the constitution is so great...

Certainly Obama could do it, in fact he has too do it... I think he is sharp enough to recognize it, as he tends to be just a bit slow on the uptake-

Thing is, doing this is not political.. this is ****ing VITAL shit to do...

Are we going to turn that into another hissy fit, pant wetting temper tantrum AGAIN?

Or say.. sheet.. we had better do something to - Upgrade our crumbling infrastructure, Upgrade our Economic System, Upgrade our Medical system, and put Americans to ****ing WORK doing SOMETHING besides trading imaginary dollars and creating money out of thin air...

I want to hand a better country to my children then was left to me... I want to be known as a historical example of what to do for the future.

We blow so much tax money on the military and the media/military/corporate/industrial complex its disgusting.

There are better ways to blow Trillions of dollars.

As a veteran myself, I believe the military is one of our most important assets, and keeping it well funded and up to date should be a big priority, seing as we are the sole remaining superpower and all. I think we've proved our point in these wars and it's time to come home. It's too expensive and there is no measurable success since we are fighting against a guerilla force comprised of militant religious fanatics.

I say bring them home, but I still believe that maintaining a strong well funded military will be in our best interests in the future because tention is building and WWIII could be closer than we thought.

I am a Veteran too, and I think the military should be reduced to a 1/4 of what it is now.

We outspend the entire world combined!!!

We spend WAY to much on Defense, its pathetic really...

The very same lesson through out history and people have no problem rushing head on into the pit of oblivion.

Besides the fact that over the last 50 years we have spent enough money year after year on that shit.. No one is ****ing with us--- We have 20,000 Nuclear Weapons a vast majority of them being over 1 megaton- I repeat.. no one is ****ing with us... We are able to fight WW3 when ever.

Time to start using that fire hose filling that bottomless pentagon pit for other purposes for just a FEW years.

Once the water starts running out on this planet, and the food supplies get low, there will be war, and I want to be the one drinking/eating when it all goes down.

Can you see how shortsighted that is?

Water does not have to run out... Nor does food.

What does it say if you are the last living human on earth and you have food and water in some underground hole?

What is that?

If we enable a future like the one you see there is no future.

I think reality is going to force change and progress like it or not.

Well, it's been waiting for 10,000 years or more, i'm sure it'll come along someday. Untill then, the world stays the same.

Actually the world is changing before your very eyes.

What are they planning on doing that started this thread?... ahhh placing a third rail in the highways.

[sgreger1]

Haha, I think you'r misunderstanding my stance on this whole thing man.

I'm with you on all of these ideas, but this is somethign everyone knows needs to happen and wants to happen, but can't because of our current political climate.

If we marched on Washington saying we want an end to this corrupt financial system etc, Nancy Pelosi and the likes will call you al racist nazi's and afroturf. The problem is that both major parties (dem/rep) are too heavly invested in this imaginary money and ****ed up corporate greed. Yet they are our elected officials so they are the only ones who could actually facilitate the change we need. But they won't because politicians are bought and sold nowadays.


I'm as against big government as the next man, but in regards to the oil industry I think the gov needs to take charge and run the operation, because it's getting out of control, and if gas hit's 4$ a gallon again this summer (which they say it might), I am going to be pissed.

Thing is, doing this is not political.. this is ****ing VITAL shit to do...

The thing is that it IS political in reality. Because to get these things done, we need congress to vote to do it, and the prez to sign off on it. They won't do this if it hurts their friends in big business/pharma/oil etc. It won't happen if a dem is in office, and it won't happen is a rep is in office.


I frankly think this country is in need of a revolution, where we march up to capitol hill and drag out every ****er in the place and tar and feather them. Then elect new representatives and say FIX IT, or you will be next, this bought and sold lobby based government will go on no longer. There will be no peace or mercy for any elected official who continues us down this road to destruction like they have been for so many decades.

But American's are still too comfertable. It will take it getting much worse before we all come together to make it better, but it will happen eventually.

I am a Veteran too, and I think the military should be reduced to a 1/4 of what it is now.

We outspend the entire world combined!!!

We spend WAY to much on Defense, its pathetic really...

I don't know about cutting the military down to a 1/4 but yes if we withdraw I think it would be more cost effective to be isolationist like we used to and just focus on defense instead of offense. We already have a head start because geographicly it is hard to get missiles or planes/boats over here. We could spend 1/2 as much money and have a defense that is impenetrable.


But too many people are invested in the war machine and therefore it will continue rolling along.

What are they planning on doing that started this thread?... ahhh placing a third rail in the highways.

lol, we'll see if this ever actually happens, in 3 years like they say it will. My money is betting against it.