Fall of the Republic

[RobME]

This morphed into a great thread. Thanks guys, I learned a lot.

[VBSnus]

either way it will probably lead to..........

http://www.lawfulpath.com/ref/vk2k.shtml

you have to read it all before you comment please

Dear God. I couldn't imagine living with that much fear.

I'd hate write something as encompassing and large as this and turn out to be so wrong about Y2K!

[RRK]

Ok, I finally watched the video Fall of the Republic and I am having a hard time finding the problems in its logic. I believe that every discussion has two sides and most often the truth lies somewhere in the middle. The video covers a fairly wide range of subjects. I would like to here specific arguments against any of the statements made in this video. Can some of our members find specific quotes from this video and post the opposite side of the argument? Can someone find which statements that are being presented as fact that are provably wrong or deceptive? I would like to know what the other side of the argument is so that I can make up my own mind, but I had the idea that I would be able to understand that some of the points were ridiculous or baseless but I did not. I found some of the commentary to be pessimistic but those parts that were presented as facts were mostly supported by either quotations or documents to back them up. Some of the intelligent members of this forum should be able to find evidence that counters these claims if they exist. I am a bit of an idealist. I tend to not follow people like Alex Jones because I hold a belief the man is inherently good. So lets fill out the missing half of this debate with facts.

[VBSnus]

Some of the intelligent members of this forum

Shit, I'm out.

[sgreger1]

I also don't buy the whole thing about how blaming the last guy doesn't work any longer. That's a direct counter to the conservative concept of personal responsibility:

Why do only conservatives have to have personal responsibility. The fact is, VB, that we can argue about how terrible Bush was all day, but the fact is that we can't do anything about the past. The only ones who can change this is Obama and the dems in congress. That is why I focus on Obama, because he is the one currently running things. Sure Bush needs to take responsibility, but you know he's not because he was just a tool for larger interests. The only way we can "change" anything is to try and convince the current president to change them.
I maintain that complaining about things in the past we cannot change will not get us anywhere.

BAD: Woman goes out, screws around, has 5 babies by 5 daddies, loses her job, becomes a drunk. Hands it over to the government and says it's their problem, own it.

GOOD: Party (and President) goes out, screws around, starts two wars, creates deficits never before seen in the history of the country, strips away our freedoms, starts policies of internment and torture. Hands it over to the next President and says it's their problem, own it.

I've never defended Bush on any of these subjects. But like I said, you can only beat a dead horse so much before it's time to move on.

Trying to pass the buck like that is nothing short of political welfare. Erasing eight years of poor financial policy will require time and drastic countermeasures...countermeasures which you also oppose.

I have no objection to countermeasures, but to me it appears that his measures are not counter to what Bush did. Bush did bailouts, so Obama ups the ante with larger bailouts. Bush started 2 wars, and Obama is growing the war effort, Bush started taking away civil liberties with the patriot act, and Obama endorses the continuing of it. A counter measure would be defined as doing something to counter it, like maybe not renewing the patriot act or maybe not continuing the runaway spending. I see no "countermeasures" beign deployed here.

In short, it's the Republican party that should follow your advice and own it. They're the party of responsibility, the party of moral fiber, of owning up to your mistakes and taking the repercussions like a man. Instead, they're passing the buck as shamelessly as the "welfare mom" they abhor.

That's politics, they are trying to save face just like the dems who are in still in congress are trying to save face for endorsing all of this stuff in the past. They are trying to play like they had nothing to do with this and were never on board with the wars, that they didn't vote fo rhte patriot act, that they didn't force banks to give crappy sub prime loans. They have to own part of this too.

This is the kind of crap that led me to leave them behind. The party of cautious progression has turned into no progression. The party of logical and well delivered counter arguments has become outrage and distortion. The party of freedom has turned into the party of intolerance. In fact, the Republican party today reminds me more and more of the Democrat party I used to hate.

So don't vote repoblican. But that doesn't mean you should be so adamantly and blindly supporting everythign the dems do. How can you hate it when Bush does it, btulove it when Obama does it?

And the party I still really really dislike for that matter. I actually can't stand most congressional dems. I voted for Bush over Gore because I felt Gore was not equipped in any way to manage this country. I voted for Bush over Kerry because I felt Kerry was a self-serving managerial douchebag who looked like an old wrinkled penis. I voted against congressional and local democrats because they acted like used car salesmen and not political leaders. During this election, I didn't vote Republican or Democrat on any ballot except for that of the Presidency, because I couldn't stand behind either of the other parties in those roles.

Like most American's, neither party well represents the average Joe anymore. This is why I hope there will be a rise in right of center third parties in the future.

So to directly hit on your point about me being an apologist...I hate that Democrats are still taking money from lobbyists. I think they need to get to work repealing all lawsuit immunities for drug and insurance companies. I'm pissed that they don't do enough for small business people, who pay more than the common employee but far less than the rich CEO. I want that review of the Fed and I want it now. PATRIOT should have been repealed. Obama needs to make due on his promise to make the congressional and executive processes more transparent. Any cabinet or congresspeople who are found to be directly hypocritical to their cause (tax chief owing back taxes, finance chair accepting VIP loans) should be removed or impeached. I have my gripes on that side as well. But no one has been arguing against me on that front, have they?

Lol, no, I have been saying exxactly what you described, but to much protest by you. Instead I hear how they havn't had enough time and how blaming Bush is the only answer. The dems are in power now, it's time for them to owit from this point on. They have the majority required to do just about anything, they should use this power for good.

I haven't heard anyone say "hope and change, everything is better now." It's not all blame and complain...people are speaking out, and action is being taken; it's just not the action you want.

Check the major, non Fox, news organizations for plenty of coverage of the above statement. The action I want is seeing the things Bush did wrong being corrected. But I don't see that.

[sgreger1]

either way it will probably lead to..........

http://www.lawfulpath.com/ref/vk2k.shtml

you have to read it all before you comment please

Dear God. I couldn't imagine living with that much fear.

I'd hate write something as encompassing and large as this and turn out to be so wrong about Y2K!

You mean y2k isn't real? ****, Alex Jones, you lied to me! This is one of the reasons that I never followed Alex Jones too closely, he was all on board the crazy train about how y2k was going to be the end. Like all end-of-times conspiracies ti turned out to be nothing. Not so much as a blackout after y2k at least where I lived.


But I think that in focusing just on this documentary, it was done really well. Kind of like Michael Moore's "Capitalism: A love story", it focuses on connecting the dots, and doens't dive into conspiracy theory land. I think it will be hard to refute most of the claims laid forth in this video, but I only watched half of it, maybe the end is more conspiracy based but for the most part I hav eto tip my hat to Alex for finnaly making a video with decept production and that does not include hours of him ranting about NWO.

[texasmade]

i wonder if he is gonna make something of 2012 :lol:


but seriously it isnt the people that run this country its the greed of the government....conspiracy or not you can always count on greed to be the main contributing factor in pretty much every decision made

[Snusophile]

either way it will probably lead to..........

http://www.lawfulpath.com/ref/vk2k.shtml

you have to read it all before you comment please

Dear God. I couldn't imagine living with that much fear.

I'd hate write something as encompassing and large as this and turn out to be so wrong about Y2K!

You mean y2k isn't real? ****, Alex Jones, you lied to me! This is one of the reasons that I never followed Alex Jones too closely, he was all on board the crazy train about how y2k was going to be the end. Like all end-of-times conspiracies ti turned out to be nothing. Not so much as a blackout after y2k at least where I lived.

Haha, I remember counting down in the last 10 seconds on New Years Eve, wondering "oh my god, this is it..."

[sgreger1]

i wonder if he is gonna make something of 2012 :lol:


but seriously it isnt the people that run this country its the greed of the government....conspiracy or not you can always count on greed to be the main contributing factor in pretty much every decision made

I don't think he is on-board with 2012 but who knows.


Nothing will happen in 2012, even the Mayans themselves don't believe in it. There will be a cool solar alignment that is pretty rare, only every 26 thousand years or something, but will no mean anything for us here on earth. Just another apocolyptical conspiracy theory to sell books. Doubt anything will happen.

[texasmade]

agreed people are so gullible...hopefully congress and everyone else will hide in bunkers or commit mass suicide

[sgreger1]

agreed people are so gullible...hopefully congress and everyone else will hide in bunkers or commit mass suicide

Lol, how sweet would it be if on 2012 the news reports that the halls of congress are empty because they all were secretly part of a cult that required they commit mass suicide for 2012 and there are no more elected officials. We could all come together to nominate new, better politicians to begin a thousand years of peace.... But since i'm from LA, i'd prefer rioting

[tom502]

Well, based on some odd things I have read and my take on it, during the ancient times, the Mayans were in contact with the reptilian sky gods from Venus. And 2012 is the year they return. So, I'm hoping to look up in the air and see massive alien ships all across the sky on that date. Also, the Vril people, that were living in the Earth's core, took Hitler and others to the Aldebaran star system, and they are set to return too. So, if anything, I am anticipating 2012 the offical visitation of ETs.

[texasmade]

rioting is good

id like to make a tape and get it played over every network....


"People of America...abandon all hope and faith that you have in our government...they have done nothing but fail you..set aside your differences and look at the real enemy..the officials that you elected....you have all waited for change now its time to make change...etc etc" take sides and take up arms blah blah blah it would be great to see the reactions...the govt would probably say that it was a terroristic threat against america and all that nonsense

[sgreger1]

Well, based on some odd things I have read and my take on it, during the ancient times, the Mayans were in contact with the reptilian sky gods from Venus. And 2012 is the year they return. So, I'm hoping to look up in the air and see massive alien ships all across the sky on that date. Also, the Vril people, that were living in the Earth's core, took Hitler and others to the Aldebaran star system, and they are set to return too. So, if anything, I am anticipating 2012 the offical visitation of ETs.

Lol, knowing you Tom this is probably not sarcasm.

I believe in Aliens,a nd I even believe that it seems they paid us a visit in ancient times, however, this whole "reptilians from venus" thing seems rediculouse, because if there were life in our solar system it would be abundantly obviouse. Also, they would have moved to earth because of all the planets, this seems to be the one I would choose in our solar system. For the resources, if not the view alone.


Don't think it's reasonable to say there is any life in our solar system. Even those who believe Mars used to be habitable face the problem that a civilization on mars would have left behind quite a bit of evidence. Thena gain, we havn't looked into it that much, and I believe Nasa is too corupt to tell us anyways.

Hitler was all about the alien thing, he believed he was in contact and being used as a medium for some superman that use dot rule the earth. Kind of makes me lean away from that theory lol

[tom502]

I believe anything is possible. Not always probable, but possible. I've been reading an interesting book, called the Voice of Venus, and I think it's one of those channeled book, take it with a grain of salt, but it, like many books that can't always be taken literally, has some interesting ideas in it. It seems mainly to talk of how the universe is multi dimensional. While we on Earth have a perception in 3 dimensions, but we cannot perceive the other dimensions. And lifeforms, and other planets, or planes, may have their existence in another dimension, and with our dimensionary limitations we cannot perceive them, even if we were standing right next to them.

That said, it does make sense to me. I think we are limited in our perceptions as humans in our stage of evolution.

I also think there is "evidence" that there may have been ancient civilizations on Mars with it's many anomalous forms photographed. These giant structures, with it's long weakened atmosphere and incredible ancient history, would surely have rotted away alot, but there are odd remnants of odd structures that may not be natural. This is not able to "prove" though, with just some photos and theories though. But I think it's highly possible, if not probable in this case.