Fall of the Republic

[tom502]

We need to have equal parties to compete. Big megaparties have all the money, and Joe Gilbert's party has no chance to even break through. We need a way to determine the top 4 parties, and when determined they have to each be bound to an equal ability to campaign. Of course this won't happen, the big 2 won't even let the 3rd have a word in. Perot only got in because of his money. I voted for him too.

[VBSnus]

We need to have equal parties to compete. Big megaparties have all the money, and Joe Gilbert's party has no chance to even break through. We need a way to determine the top 4 parties, and when determined they have to each be bound to an equal ability to campaign. Of course this won't happen, the big 2 won't even let the 3rd have a word in. Perot only got in because of his money. I voted for him too.

I posted an idea a couple pages back. If there were a primary race before the major party primaries, which determined the primary parties. One pool of money, 4 or 5 slots, and a vote of the people to determine the party who would be awarded a portion of the election money.

1) Ban PAC advertising. Endorsements are fine.
2) Cap the amount of advertising a party can use for the Party Primary
3) No extra money can be used on the general election outside the Party Primary award
4) Independents can run using money up to the cap on every other party
5) An independent council will require monthly money input/output to keep things fair and keep an eye on PACs

I'd love it. Big ol' pile o' parties. I'd gladly pay an extra couple bucks in taxes to fund a unified $1bn election pool to make that happen.

Let's regulate THEM. How's that sound?

[tom502]

I think the only way the 2 party stronghold could be broken, as it is set up now, is big big pocket celebs, that are politically motivated, like Michael Moore, and Oprah, with special advisors like Bono, could use their fame and money to craft a new party and become popular. Now sad to me, is these people are so extreme left, but they do have this possible ability. The 3rd largest party, from what I've read, is the Libertarian Party, but the common person doesn't even know they exist. In USA 2009 onward, it's a Hollywood hype country.

[sgreger1]

Yah I think you have formed the only good practical idea I have ever heard be suggested in regards to the elections. I see no way they can **** that up. But then again I wouldn't put anything past a politician.



Also, maybe we can stop this:

WASHINGTON TIMES: Top donors offered 'wide range of perks' since Obama took office...

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009...cube_position1

[sgreger1]

I think the only way the 2 party stronghold could be broken, as it is set up now, is big big pocket celebs, that are politically motivated, like Michael Moore, and Oprah, with special advisors like Bono, could use their fame and money to craft a new party and become popular. Now sad to me, is these people are so extreme left, but they do have this possible ability. The 3rd largest party, from what I've read, is the Libertarian Party, but the common person doesn't even know they exist. In USA 2009 onward, it's a Hollywood hype country.

The libertarian party is a HUGE decider in who gets elected. They tend to vote republican but also vote dem some times, like in the last election.

The problem is they were banking on the dems to accomplish their big points, but the dems failed, and the republicans keep pushing them further away.

I hope this time around they get more money and just try to run a libertarian candidate








"Obama is the best candidate to work on four top libertarian reforms: 1) Iraq withdrawal, 2) restoring the separation of church and state; 3) easing off victimless crimes such as drug use; 4) curtailing the Patriot Act."

But...

Libertarian voters should be up for grabs this year, the Republicans having done such an effective job of pushing them away. But the Democrats don’t seem to be making much of a pitch for them. At the last Democratic debate, Clinton and Obama spent the first 30 minutes proclaiming their devotion to socialized medicine and protectionism. But maybe issues of peace and civil liberties — combined with the Republicans’ loss of credibility on fiscal and economic issues — really will push some libertarians into the arms of the Democrats, especially if the Democratic nominee is not self-proclaimed “government junkie” Hillary Clinton.

[tom502]

I may be wrong, but I think Obama is going to be known as the worst president, and cannot be re-elected, unless he starts to use his secret messiah powers. I think all the uber Hollywood hype, and awaited messiah cometh fanfare has all but died down now, and people are seeing him, rather a long talker but empty suit, and controlled by terrible advisors and corrupt cabinet. Yet all the "black" places will still have his picture on the walls, all because of his skin tone.

[VBSnus]

I may be wrong, but I think Obama is going to be known as the worst president, and cannot be re-elected, unless he starts to use his secret messiah powers. I think all the uber Hollywood hype, and awaited messiah cometh fanfare has all but died down now, and people are seeing him, rather a long talker but empty suit, and controlled by terrible advisors and corrupt cabinet. Yet all the "black" places will still have his picture on the walls, all because of his skin tone.

I would disagree with this statement in its entirety.

The problem is they were banking on the dems to accomplish their big points, but the dems failed, and the republicans keep pushing them further away.

More than anything else I want to see the return of the Republican party. I want to see us go pre-Reaganomics and take from Reagan what was right and discard what was wrong. Throw out the neocons and bring in some younger and brighter voices. Admit that we need healthcare reform, work towards it, make it happen, and do it with traditional conservative values (not trickle down, not tax cuts on rich, etc).

If Republicans get into office in 2010 and craft a killer healthcare reform bill I'd have so much respect for that. They'd be attacking the problem, taking action, etc. Instead of just refusing to believe there is a problem or saying "no" defensively.

[captncaveman]

Why doesn't someone just blow up the death star? Take them anuses out! Luke did it, also chris griffin (but watch out for the ghost of that pedophile dude, he'll help you but at a perverse price). Good Luck gents, and my the shwartz be with you!!

[sgreger1]

I would disagree with this statement in its entirety.

He will not be recorded as the worst president A) Because there will be worse, and B) Because he is the first black president, which is quite an accomplishment seeing as it was hard to even have interacial marriage not so many years ago, and still in some places today.

However, those of us who knew him in his presidency know that he is like the Bush of the democratic party = the one who killed them off for good.

More than anything else I want to see the return of the Republican party. I want to see us go pre-Reaganomics and take from Reagan what was right and discard what was wrong. Throw out the neocons and bring in some younger and brighter voices. Admit that we need healthcare reform, work towards it, make it happen, and do it with traditional conservative values (not trickle down, not tax cuts on rich, etc).

I would like to see this as well. The neocons have taken over and are either too liberal, or just plain wrong. The republicans used to be about low taxes, incentive for businesses, owning the fruit of your labor, property rights, small government etc. Nowadays it is hard to distinguish them from the democrats which is bad. They have become the thing they hate, big government, no property rights, no civil liberties, and runaway spending galore. We have the dems for this, we don't need the reps to go down the same road.


The way I believe it was meant by the founding fathers was to have a small government (mainly just government on state level), and a right of center gov, but the liberals would always be a check and balance to make sure we don't forget about human rights, fair wages etc. This worked pretty good for a while but now both parties have become different means to the same end = big government and a useless dollar.


I would also like to see Reagan come back sans some of his big spending and taxes. He was a great speaker like Obama, and he delivered. He talked about America, how we were the shinning light on the hill, of freedom and how much America generally kicked ass. And he warned us that it takes work to keep it that way, we can't let softies like Carter come in and **** it up by doing what Obama is doing: Talking loudly and walking with a little stick.

I hope that Obama will usher in a new reagan who will wisk us away and fix all of our problems. But as of late I am starting more and more to buy into the conspiracy theory that all of our elected officials have been bought and sold and that the only way to truly take back our republic from the hands of gready international corporate crime syndicates is via revolution, which is something that no one wants.


I hope they prove me wrong, and I hope Obama proves me wrong by doing the right thing. He has the power, this is a once in a decade chance for things to be done right. Let's hope he has the wisdom and the character to be able to do good with this power.

If Republicans get into office in 2010 and craft a killer healthcare reform bill I'd have so much respect for that. They'd be attacking the problem, taking action, etc. Instead of just refusing to believe there is a problem or saying "no" defensively.

Lol, this will not happen i'm afraid. but if/when they get back some seats in congress, they will have to do something, because the issue of our degrading health care system has come to the surface and it is now a hot issue, so they had better have a plan. But frankly, I don't think they do.

[VBSnus]

Lol, this will not happen i'm afraid. but if/when they get back some seats in congress, they will have to do something, because the issue of our degrading health care system has come to the surface and it is now a hot issue, so they had better have a plan. But frankly, I don't think they do.

You know what else won't happen that I'd love to see? A President switch parties. How badass would that be?

They'd commit political suicide in some ways, and it would be political genius in other ways. Additionally they'd earn millions in book sales and other external methods.

Point being, it'd be great to see a President do something DRAMATIC that shows people it's not all "one or the other". I could actually see Ron Paul doing this. Become president, then switch to the Libertarian party. That would be a coup.

However, those of us who knew him in his presidency know that he is like the Bush of the democratic party = the one who killed them off for good.

I would disagree with this statement in its entirety.

I hope that Obama will usher in a new reagan who will wisk us away and fix all of our problems.

He won't. He'll usher in a foaming at the mouth blame monger who will blame all of the problems of his Presidency on Barack Obama's healthcare bill and other spending initiatives. The Republicans will agree instead of saying "own it". We'll hear a ton of whining about how it's Barack Obama's fault. Then we'll get attacked somehow and start a war with Iran, or maybe go for the gold and get China this time.

[sgreger1]

Point being, it'd be great to see a President do something DRAMATIC that shows people it's not all "one or the other". I could actually see Ron Paul doing this. Become president, then switch to the Libertarian party. That would be a coup.

This would be so revolutionary to do this, I never would have thought of it. If Ron Paul did this I would build a temple of him in my closet and collect fingernail and hair clipping to adorne it. lol

However, those of us who knew him in his presidency know that he is like the Bush of the democratic party = the one who killed them off for good.

I would disagree with this statement in its entirety.

It's the truth. If Obama doesn't get this stuff passed, America will just see him as the new evil. People need something to blame the countries problems on.
If he continues Bush's wars and trampling of personal freedoms, he will be seen like Bush. It will give liberal a bad name in the same way that Bush gave republican a bad name.

That is, if he doens't change his act, which I don't see him doing.

He won't. He'll usher in a foaming at the mouth blame monger who will blame all of the problems of his Presidency on Barack Obama's healthcare bill and other spending initiatives. The Republicans will agree instead of saying "own it". We'll hear a ton of whining about how it's Barack Obama's fault. Then we'll get attacked somehow and start a war with Iran, or maybe go for the gold and get China this time.

Like I said, I don't think this will happen either. Your right, it will usher in someone new that will pull an Obama and just blame the last guy into infinity and never take control of the situation or own it. Republicans will endorse this new pres even if he does the same shit as Obama and call it change, just like the dems are doing today with Obama. Politics is just a merry-go-round like this. Once again, both sides are the same.


God forbid we should get into a REAL war against someone who can fight back. These news reports of 3 soldiers killed here, 4 there will change to much higher numbers and frankly we've already blown our money wad on Iraq/Afghanistan and it would be extremely taxing on our national wallet. Even more-so than the current wars. Plus.. we'd have to figure out how to continue/end the current wars. Can't fight on too many fronts, that's where Hitler ****ed up.

[VBSnus]

This would be so revolutionary to do this, I never would have thought of it. If Ron Paul did this I would build a temple of him in my closet and collect fingernail and hair clipping to adorne it. lol

Huckabee could even do it. He's a somewhat established fiscal conservative with strong values, and despite his past he's not oppressively religious. He's an "average American" including weight problems and a down home accent, and a strong supporter of FairTax. I could see him winning and going Libertarian. He won't of course, but man it would be cool.

[sgreger1]

This would be so revolutionary to do this, I never would have thought of it. If Ron Paul did this I would build a temple of him in my closet and collect fingernail and hair clipping to adorne it. lol

Huckabee could even do it. He's a somewhat established fiscal conservative with strong values, and despite his past he's not oppressively religious. He's an "average American" including weight problems and a down home accent, and a strong supporter of FairTax. I could see him winning and going Libertarian. He won't of course, but man it would be cool.

Like Fred Thompson, Huckabee is the southern fried Ronald Reagon.

He is too religious for me and I don't think it would play well with America. Plus he is a real conservative, not a libertarian. He is very conservative in that he is against abortion, holds a religious faith, and is against gay marriage etc.

Won't play well with the independants.

But I would love to see him become president.

[sgreger1]

Also,

Constant refreshing on "People and the World Around Us", an occasional quick post, and quite a few long and drawn out posts designed to increase the flow of froth from sgreger's rabid mouth.

:twisted:

Your lucky i'm here. Why else would you constantly refresh the "People and the World Around Us" section. It's usually just about shitting your pants and drunken unicorns, painted with the giant group hug brush.

:lol: Not that I don't love that too.

[Bigblue1]

bump Only because it is fun