ATTENTION ALL COLLEGE STUDENTS

[texasmade]

That's nice. Unfortunately, this discussion is about human lives, not damage to buildings. Can you put a price on human life? If a young ignorant foreigner came into your dwelling and killed your wife in cold blood, would any amount of money really make you whole again? I hope not. Would it make you take up arms against the foreign invaders? I hope so. Now you know where the brave Afghani and Iraqi freedom fighters are coming from.

judge i agree with you on this

or they would much rather take a human life than to pump rounds into a car engine.

50 cal rounds to the engine block do work..thats what they did at the base my dad was stationed at when he was overseas and the car wouldnt slow down or stop...doesnt mean that soldiers will always aim for the engine

[sgreger1]

It is not rediculous. You know nothing about the subject and all you know is what you get from the mainstream media or wikipedia. This is why you have the opinion that we are an empire out killing people en masse for fun or something, and that we take no measures to ensure safety of the civilians. This is an uninformed opinion and could not be further from the truth.

Let's not stoop to petty insults, please. I assume that you are intelligent and informed; I simply ask that you do the same for me. I would like us to debate this issue on the merits - ad hominem attacks are neither welcome not effective.

Im not trying to amke insults at all, my bad if it came off that way. What I am saying is that you re too heavily trying to defend these people while not caring at all about our own troops. I know your intelligent but I just think that you need to see it from the viepoint of our generals etc, they are tasked with fighting a war, and that entails certain things.

That's nice. Unfortunately, this discussion is about human lives, not damage to buildings. Can you put a price on human life? If a young ignorant foreigner came into your dwelling and killed your wife in cold blood, would any amount of money really make you whole again? I hope not. Would it make you take up arms against the foreign invaders? I hope so. Now you know where the brave Afghani and Iraqi freedom fighters are coming from.

That particular topic was about structures, and the need to clear them before demolishing them. I just pointed out that if they are clear, there is no need to demolish them, we are not just there to wreck property.

These people are stuck ina struggle because if they mess with us they may get killed by us, but if they tell the insurgents to **** off they will get killed by them. They are in a lose lose either way.

Also, keep in mind that these insurgents were doing this khamakazi blow yourself up in a public area shit before we were in iraq, it's not like this is JUST a response to our occupation, although I agree the occupation does add to it.

I, like you, have sympathy with these people for the same reason. If I were just some joe and the terrorists took refuge in my town and said they'd murder my family if I did anything about it, and then the americans come in and end up blowing up my house anyways while trying to kill the insurgents, I would be pissed. Some people see this as the SUA being occupiers and get pissed when their stuff gets ruined/ family gets killed. I think we can all empathize with that. I would do that same thing, if the tables were turned i'd be the guy wearing sandals and bearing a rifle.

But like I said, we have to remember that this insurgent (not freedom fighters) thing started long before iraq/afghanistan, however sine weve been there they have recruited bitter locals, givingthe label of freedom fighters, and allowing them a chance at revenge against America. Not all of them are freedom fighters..

This is why I think we should withdraw though, because after all this time/money/blood their efforts have only increased.

"Current policy?" Policies are cute and all, but they don't always translate to reality. Imperial forces slaughter innocent civilians in this manner on a daily basis. Either your beloved gunners are incompetent morons, or they would much rather take a human life than to pump rounds into a car engine.

This is my issue with you. You use words like "Imperial Forces" instead of US or coalition troops. You use words like "slaughter innocent civilians" which would paint the picture that our guys are there with the intent to mow down as many innocents as possible. This is not the case. there will always be collateral damage, it cannot be avoided, but we do take steps to avoid it when possible. Maybe THEY SHOULDNT HAVE BEEN BLOWING SHIT UP FOR YEARS, and this wouldn't have to happen.

No, the meaning of war is to win, not to massacre the people on the other side. You may want to read up on the Geneva Conventions, to which the Empire is a signatory.

The geneva conventions applies to a soveriegn country going into a declared war against another sovereign country. These people are not bound by the geneva conventions which is why they do not follow them. So, in turn, we have to adjust strategy to be able to compensate for their lack of restraint. War means your there to win. To win a war one must destroy their enemy's military, infrastructure, economy etc in an attempt to cripple the country enough so that their government will give up and declare defeat.

It's hard to do when you are not fighting a country, but a rogue group of individuals backed by many countries.

Well, pardon me for not sharing your unrestrained adoration for the Empire's armed forces.

No where, including in the geneva conventions,is the USA described as "The Empire". We are a soverign nation like anyone else, and reserve the right to maintain and use a standing military for both offense or defense. I don't need you to love the military, but it amazes me that you see the iraqi's as freedom fighters, but US soldiers as somehow part of an evil master plan where rednecks can go out shooting human game.

These gun-toting, ignorant, uneducated rednecks are doing absolutely nothing to keep you or me safe. What they're doing is making sure that the rest of the world hates the Empire enough to seriously entertain the idea of attacking its denizens on its own soil.

Gun toting yes (They are in the military guy, guns are required)

Ignorant? No, infact the infantry has some of the highest scoring students and most educated people there are around.

Rednecks? Shows how racist and bigoted you are,the military is a diverse group of individuals including blacks, whites, hispanics and EVEN MUSLIMS. So another ouright lie coming from you.

Do you think that the 9/11 individuals picked the US at random? No, they picked it because they were fed up with the arrogant imperialism of your barbaric nation. And now they have even more reason to attack again.

They picked the US because we are the biggest player in the world, i.e. the biggest stage to get attention from. they have also attacked several other countries before and after us.

This is how I know your logic is completely ****e dup. you see Iraqi's as elegant freedom fighters, yet educated, civilized american's as somehow the barbarians of the world. Please explain what definition of barbarian you could apply to us?

They are fed up with our arrogant imperialism? We are fed up with them spending their days blowign up shit in mulitple nations, terrorising innocents and bombing buildings. They will be found,a nd will be killed, and if you support them killing innocents than that is on your head, not mine. These men kill more innocents, epsecially during non-war time, than almost any other group in the world. Alquaida is an internation terrorist organization with the blood of countless individuals on their hands. they don't declare war, they just do it without being provoked.

So, yeah. Thanks for keeping me "safe." You rock.

I don't think that this war is keeping anyone safe. But I also don't understand people who praise those who blow up buildings and instead HATE those who go kick some ass after their land was attacked. You sympathize with terrorists who murder innocents and praise their behavior, all while degrading and hating the soldiers who are dispatched by a politician somewher eto go do something.

Soldiers sign up and the politicians send them wherever they please. Terrorists take it upon themselves to go kill people without any government making them do it, they lust for the blood of the innocent, and you love them for it.


I said no insults, but I cannot wrap my mind around people like you who would love to see terrorists kill a million innocents, people like you who have no acclaim for human life. you claim you care about innocents but seem to only care when it is us who kills them. Yet you stand QUIET when terrorists murder innocents. At least the US makes an attempt at reducing collateral damage, at least we TRY to care, you and you terrorist friends you love so much are the worst kind of person, killing in the coldest of blood, unnanounced, and choosing innocents first when decided who's next to lose thier life.
There is no level of sub-human more evil and worthy of disdain than people like you. I hope you join your "freedom fighter" friends against "the imperialist forces" so one of my buddies can find your ass out there in the desert and slaughter you like the filthy pig you are.

Go grab your turban and sandles, I may have to re-enlist just so we can meet again.

[texasmade]

Ignorant? No, infact the infantry has some of the highest scoring students and most educated people there are around.

i can agree with this me and plenty of my friends that had went into the military right after high school scored 80+ on the asvab had high grades etc and we chose infantry over everything else

[sgreger1]

Ignorant? No, infact the infantry has some of the highest scoring students and most educated people there are around.

i can agree with this me and plenty of my friends that had went into the military right after high school scored 80+ on the asvab had high grades etc and we chose infantry over everything else

No. per judge, you are an ignorant uneducated gun-toting redneck fighting for an evil empire who's goal is to slaughter innocents in mass, and are in fact the real terrorists.

[VBSnus]

Thought of you sgreger!

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1

[sgreger1]

Thought of you sgreger!

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1

Ahaha. Funny you should mention that. The god damn protestors here at UCSC shut down the city for hours yesterday and was 2 hours late to pick up my kid.


Intirestingly, and seperating from my usual line of logic, I do not agree with these protestors. The school has taken millions in loss of funding and must make up for it with rate hikes. These kids are 90% of the time recieving financial aid. Congress is about to approve additional financial aid to offset the difference = no actual cost to students.

These kids protest something new every week, it gets old. And at the end of the day the school knows these kids will pay tuition come next semester so all the protesting in the world will not help.




Also, oddly, the police helped the protestors and only allowed a couple of cars at a time to pass through the crowds, leading to a gridlock of the city untill about 5:30 pm. Frankly the protest is hurting the community more than the schools, people gotta pik up their children and all these protestors did was block my ability to do that.


CA is burning, cuts need to be made. I too bitch about this since I pay my taxes and expect to get social programs in return (since that's what liberals claim will happen if I authorize said taxing for the purpose of establishing said social programs), but the school admin has made a lot of cuts. Although they still make way to many 0's on their paycheck, it's either this or less classes offered.


In closing, GET THE **** OFF THE STREET SO I CAN GET HOME, YOU GOD DAMN HIPPIES.


PS: Bookstore next to my work is giving out free bags of pistachio's labeled "Just Plain Nutz" with every purchase of Sarah Palin's new book. lol

[sgreger1]

"We are bailing out the banks, we are bailing out Wall Street. Where is the bailout for public education?" asked UCLA graduate student Sonja Diaz.

I knew this would happen, if they bail some people out, everyone else will want a bailout, and it never ends. But it is true, the money could have been better spent than on wall street. Our infrastructure and public education system is crumbling quicker than ENRON around here.

[Judge Faust]

I said no insults, but I cannot wrap my mind around people like you who would love to see terrorists kill a million innocents, people like you who have no acclaim for human life. you claim you care about innocents but seem to only care when it is us who kills them. Yet you stand QUIET when terrorists murder innocents. At least the US makes an attempt at reducing collateral damage, at least we TRY to care, you and you terrorist friends you love so much are the worst kind of person, killing in the coldest of blood, unnanounced, and choosing innocents first when decided who's next to lose thier life.
There is no level of sub-human more evil and worthy of disdain than people like you. I hope you join your "freedom fighter" friends against "the imperialist forces" so one of my buddies can find your ass out there in the desert and slaughter you like the filthy pig you are.

Go grab your turban and sandles, I may have to re-enlist just so we can meet again.

I do not have the time (at this moment) to address all of your moronic arguments, so let us focus on this.

Quickly, then:

1) Get used to wrapping your mind against opposing viewpoints. The vast majority of the world's population does not think as you do.

2) "Terrorists" have killed a "million" people? First, define "terrorist." Second, state which "terrorists" have killed a million or more people? The Empire surely has - does that make it a terrorist organization?

3) Neither you nor your murdering compatriots count as "innocents." You all signed up to die. You all participated in the illegal invasion of a sovereign nation. You are cannon fodder; the innocent Afghani civilians are not.

4) I will not join my Muslim brethren in their honorable resistance to you fascist invaders. They have more than enough soldiers right now, and I find that my mind is a far more powerful weapon than my skill with a gun.

5) By all means, reenlist. I am sure that the brave freedom fighters will take great enjoyment in putting an end to your pointless existence. When dying, remember that YOU are the criminal. Also, please give due respect to the Soviet weaponry that will do you in (it may be an AK, it may be a Katyusha...).

[sgreger1]

1) Get used to wrapping your mind against opposing viewpoints. The vast majority of the world's population does not think as you do.

I suggest you do the same. The cliche I hate America but love the poor terrorists thing is getting old.

2) "Terrorists" have killed a "million" people? First, define "terrorist." Second, state which "terrorists" have killed a million or more people? The Empire surely has - does that make it a terrorist organization?

Terrorists have for years, mainly since the 70's, been causing havok around the world in multiple nations, especially their own. They behead their own people if they shave their beards or do anything westernized. If those are the people you endorse, than good luck to you.

3) Neither you nor your murdering compatriots count as "innocents." You all signed up to die. You all participated in the illegal invasion of a sovereign nation. You are cannon fodder; the innocent Afghani civilians are not.

Yawn. This argument is old and thuroughly debunked. There is nothing illegal about the war, several countries took part in it, but I don't see you hating on them. Because you just hate America. The intel about WMD's came from multiple countries, as did warnings about 9-11. Shouldn't have flown some jets into our buildings and we wouldn't have to be in afghanistan tearing up the place. Congress authorized the war for multiple reasons, not just WMD's so don't even try and play the "it's illegal" nonesense. Nothing illegal about it, and if it were, the democrats would be prosecuting Bush. But they cna't because they have nothing. Just like you.

4) I will not join my Muslim brethren in their honorable resistance to you fascist invaders. They have more than enough soldiers right now, and I find that my mind is a far more powerful weapon than my skill with a gun.

Lol, enjoy your "honorable" resistance, nothing like getting burried in sandals. And if your mind is more powerfull than a gun you probably wouldn't be so ill informed about world events. But here I must remember the prime directive of internet communications, "don't feed the troll".

5) By all means, reenlist. I am sure that the brave freedom fighters will take great enjoyment in putting an end to your pointless existence. When dying, remember that YOU are the criminal. Also, please give due respect to the Soviet weaponry that will do you in (it may be an AK, it may be a Katyusha...).

Freedom fighters do a good job at getting killed or making cowardly attacks masked as civilians with bombs strappe dto them. They are too afraid to even identify themselves and fight a square battle with us, because they know they are too weak to win that way.

Soviet weaponry is lame, the soviets lost, and the soviets even lost against the afghans. Not worried about outdated low tech arms being in the hands of uneducated religious fanatics.

[Skimo]

Lol, while civilians are often times killed, the amount of effort we put into not harming the civilian populace is unpresidented. the numbers show that we have done a good job, as far as 8 year long wars are concerned.

Their own terrorists kill more civilians than we do.

Eh... Really, now?

If you are going to discuss these issues, you may as well educate yourself as to the facts:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_of_the_War_in_Afghanistan_(2001%E2% 80%93present)

Look at the totals:

Civilians killed by freedom fighters: 3,419 - 4,969
Civilians killed by occupation forces: 5,317 - 8,109

And, for the record, slaughtering thousands of innocent civilians does not count as a "good job" in my book. The fact that you see this atrocious mass-murder as perfectly acceptable is somewhat shocking and more than a little saddening.

He's still trying ot shut down Gitmo but all the prisoners are so comfertable, they are asking to stay there instead of goign to US jails, since at Gitmo they are treated excelent and are giving luxuries and accomodations that regular prisons would not afford them.

Only 3 people were water-boarded, the rest live like kings when compared to their usual standard of living. And even the gitmo prisoners are calling Obama a communist

This has got to be the most outrageous statement that I have heard in years...

So the prisoners live like kings? And they're all asking to stay in indefinite and illegal detention rather than being set free?

I suppose this explains why there have been hundreds of suicide attempts among the inmates, including 5 successful suicides:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantan...icide_attempts

And torture is a myth? Only 3 people got waterboarded? So I take it that those FBI FILES detailing dozens of cases of torture were... What - made up? Because the FBI was having a slow day and had nothing better to do?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007...guantanamo.usa

Are you really citing Wikipedia?! That's integrity suicide.

U.S. troops from O-10s to E-1s are bound by LOAC.

ONLY about 5 thousand enemy non combatants killed... what do you want? one shot instant kills?!
grenades that only hit bad guys?!
Missiles that only explode on bad guys?
Bad guys to line up and be properly terminated, one shot one kill?

News flash "bleeding heart on your sleeve(faust)" war is hell, sh*t happens, people die, soldiers and civilians.

The last thing I need is some hippy pansy assed punk telling people that our soldiers are intentionally killing thousands of "innocent" people, they simply are not.

I don't lose my temper often, but buddy you just pulled the trigger.

Now I have to search for the ignore button to avoid and further brain diarrhea from being displayed.

Oh, chances are you're just a troll, in which case, good job, you got me angry! :roll:

[sgreger1]

@ Skimo

"News flash "bleeding heart on your sleeve(faust)" war is hell, sh*t happens, people die, soldiers and civilians.

The last thing I need is some hippy pansy assed punk telling people that our soldiers are intentionally killing thousands of "innocent" people, they simply are not. "

That's all i was trying to say. It's nice to think of a war where only bad guys die, but it's not where we are at today. Not realistic. Then Judge goes on to talk about how he is bretheren with these terrorists and their "heroic" effort to defeat "the evil empire", but the US is overseas targeting civilians for elimination. I just cannot see how this is based on reality. Sounds like some kid who sits on his computer reading liberals blogs instead of out in the real world looking at how things really work.

Glad someone shares my view skimo.

[Judge Faust]

Terrorists have for years, mainly since the 70's, been causing havok around the world in multiple nations, especially their own. They behead their own people if they shave their beards or do anything westernized. If those are the people you endorse, than good luck to you.

I will ask you one more time: define "terrorist."

Yawn. This argument is old and thuroughly debunked. There is nothing illegal about the war, several countries took part in it, but I don't see you hating on them. Because you just hate America. The intel about WMD's came from multiple countries, as did warnings about 9-11. Shouldn't have flown some jets into our buildings and we wouldn't have to be in afghanistan tearing up the place. Congress authorized the war for multiple reasons, not just WMD's so don't even try and play the "it's illegal" nonesense. Nothing illegal about it, and if it were, the democrats would be prosecuting Bush. But they cna't because they have nothing. Just like you.

First of all, you're mixing up your wars (how ignorant). Afghanistan had nothing to do with WMDs, and Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11.

Secondly, you're missing the use of the word "illegal" here. According to the UN charter, any war not authorized by the UN Security Council contravenes international law, and thus is illegal. There is absolutely no question at all that both wars are illegal.

Thirdly, the fact that the Empire dragged several puppets into the wars does not absolve it of its crimes. That is akin to arguing that Hitler wasn't so bad because, hey, Italy fought on the Axis side, too! Idiotic.

Finally, I am sorry that you still believe there was ever any "intel" about WMDs in Iraq. The rest of us have long ago accepted that this was another lie made up by Little Bush out of whole cloth. You need to let go of your delusions and see the light, my child.

Lol, enjoy your "honorable" resistance, nothing like getting burried in sandals. And if your mind is more powerfull than a gun you probably wouldn't be so ill informed about world events. But here I must remember the prime directive of internet communications, "don't feed the troll".

5) By all means, reenlist. I am sure that the brave freedom fighters will take great enjoyment in putting an end to your pointless existence. When dying, remember that YOU are the criminal. Also, please give due respect to the Soviet weaponry that will do you in (it may be an AK, it may be a Katyusha...).

Freedom fighters do a good job at getting killed or making cowardly attacks masked as civilians with bombs strappe dto them. They are too afraid to even identify themselves and fight a square battle with us, because they know they are too weak to win that way.

Soviet weaponry is lame, the soviets lost, and the soviets even lost against the afghans. Not worried about outdated low tech arms being in the hands of uneducated religious fanatics.

Not worried, eh? That's a shame, because you have every reason to be worried:

http://www.icasualties.org/OEF/index.aspx

Why, look at that! Looks like those funny little guys in sandals (and honestly, I don't get your preoccupation with their footwear, but what the hell) have already smoked almost a thousand of you rednecks. Look at the years, too: the freedom fighters are becoming more effective all the time.

Anyway, enjoy the site. I hope to see you on it one day.

[tom502]

The US could not defeat the N.Vietnamese, and we can't beat Al-Qaida or the Taliban. We should just get out now. Obama is just towing the line Bush left. Ron Paul was the only one that said to get out now. This current war is endless.

[sgreger1]

The US could not defeat the N.Vietnamese, and we can't beat Al-Qaida or the Taliban. We should just get out now. Obama is just towing the line Bush left. Ron Paul was the only one that said to get out now. This current war is endless.

This is exactly it. We had to do something because Americans were screaming for blood post 9-11 but we've made our point, the Afghans will not be beat with our current "try and be nice" strategy. Either go all out and destroy the place or there is no way to win. I think we need the money back at home and this is getting expensive after 8 years. Ron Paul FTW!!!

(Also, waiting for several comments on how Obama is anti-war and stopping the wars somehow, despite his blatant growing of the war effort)

[sgreger1]

I will ask you one more time: define "terrorist."

In the context of what I am referring to, a terrorist is any organization or individual who goes blowing up buildings, embassies, battleships based on radical religious ideology. We are referring in particular to the group Al Quaida, Taliban etc in this convo.

For the more formal definition of terrorist, see below:

Princeton: "a radical who employs terror as a political weapon; usually organizes with other terrorists in small cells; often uses religion as a cover for terrorist activities) "

Or to use your favorite source for information, wikipedia:

Terrorism is the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion.[1] At present, there is no internationally agreed definition of terrorism.[2][3] Common definitions of terrorism refer only to those violent acts which are intended to create fear (terror), are perpetrated for an ideological goal (as opposed to a lone attack), and deliberately target or disregard the safety of non-combatants.

First of all, you're mixing up your wars (how ignorant). Afghanistan had nothing to do with WMDs, and Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11.

Don't twist my words, I am well aware that the Afghanistan war was due to the 9-11 attacks, and Bush then targeted Iraq, using the supposed threat of WMD's to occupy it, mos tliekly for political/corporate interests than anything else, imho. Multiple countries provided intel that corroborated with that of our own, pointing to that Sadam had WMD. This was not from George Bush as you'd like to think, infact here are several prominent democrats and others urging action against Iraq:



"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs." -- From a letter signed by Joe Lieberman, Dianne Feinstein, Barbara A. Milulski, Tom Daschle, & John Kerry among others on October 9, 1998

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retained some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capability. Intelligence reports also indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons, but has not yet achieved nuclear capability." -- Robert Byrd, October 2002


"This December will mark three years since United Nations inspectors last visited Iraq. There is no doubt that since that time, Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to refine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer- range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies." -- From a December 6, 2001 letter signed by Bob Graham, Joe Lieberman, Harold Ford, & Tom Lantos among others

"Whereas Iraq has consistently breached its cease-fire agreement between Iraq and the United States, entered into on March 3, 1991, by failing to dismantle its weapons of mass destruction program, and refusing to permit monitoring and verification by United Nations inspections; Whereas Iraq has developed weapons of mass destruction, including chemical and biological capabilities, and has made positive progress toward developing nuclear weapons capabilities" -- From a joint resolution submitted by Tom Harkin and Arlen Specter on July 18, 2002

"Iraq is not the only nation in the world to possess weapons of mass destruction, but it is the only nation with a leader who has used them against his own people." -- Tom Daschle in 1998

-------------------------------------------------


So you see, it's not like Bush just woke up one day, told the world we had WMD's and we went to war. To think that that's how it works is.. well retarded.

Secondly, you're missing the use of the word "illegal" here. According to the UN charter, any war not authorized by the UN Security Council contravenes international law, and thus is illegal. There is absolutely no question at all that both wars are illegal.

First off i'd like to take a moment to say **** THE UN. We are a soverign nation and will do as we please.


But technicaly we were at a cease fire with Iraq and they breached the aggreement. meaning we were just restarting an existing conflict due to that breach, as opposed to instigating a "war of aggression"

See below:


The position of the US and UK is that the invasion was authorized by a series of UN resolutions dating back to 1990. Resolution 1441 declared that Iraq was in "material breach" of the cease-fire under UN Resolution 687 (1991), which required cooperation with weapons inspectors. The Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties states that under certain conditions, a party may invoke a "material breach" to suspend a multilateral treaty. Thus, the US and UK claim that they used their right to suspend the cease-fire in Resolution 687 and to continue hostilities against Iraq under the authority of UN Resolution 678 (1990), which originally authorized the use of force after Iraq invaded Kuwait.[47]






In 2003 they tried to bring it to court to claim it was illegal to start a war, the court said they were incorrect, and that it had no business intervening.


"In early 2003, the Iraq Resolution was challenged in court to stop the invasion from happening. The plaintiffs argued that the President does not have the authority to declare war. The final decision came from a three-judge panel from the US Court of Appeals for the First Circuit which dismissed the case. Judge Lynch wrote in the opinion that the Judiciary cannot intervene unless there is a fully-developed conflict between the President and Congress or if Congress gave the President "absolute discretion" to declare war.[55]"

Thirdly, the fact that the Empire dragged several puppets into the wars does not absolve it of its crimes. That is akin to arguing that Hitler wasn't so bad because, hey, Italy fought on the Axis side, too! Idiotic.

We didn't drag anyone. These are all soverign nations and members of the UN. You are giving Bush too much credit.

Finally, I am sorry that you still believe there was ever any "intel" about WMDs in Iraq. The rest of us have long ago accepted that this was another lie made up by Little Bush out of whole cloth. You need to let go of your delusions and see the light, my child.

They had used WMD's in the past and intel showed they planned to continue doing so.

Even Clinton agreed, which is why he also attacked:


“Earlier today, I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq. They are joined by British forces. Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors…

“Other countries possess weapons of mass destruction and ballistic missiles. With Saddam, there is one big difference: He has used them. Not once, but repeatedly. Unleashing chemical weapons against Iranian troops during a decade-long war. Not only against soldiers, but against civilians, firing Scud missiles at the citizens of Israel, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain and Iran. And not only against a foreign enemy, but even against his own people, gassing Kurdish civilians in Northern Iraq.

”The international community had little doubt then, and I have no doubt today, that left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will use these terrible weapons again. "

Speech from the Oval Office by President William Clinton, explaining his attack on Iraq
reported by The Associated Press
Wednesday, December 16, 1998


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...text121698.htm

Not worried, eh? That's a shame, because you have every reason to be worried:

http://www.icasualties.org/OEF/index.aspx

Another yawn. We could go in and devestate the place if we wanted to. but our politicians want to play it safe so they don't look bad in the media so they tie our hands. Don't for a second think we couldn't go in there and tak edown the place if we wanted, it's just that we are trying to spin this off a a "good" war which leads to us not being able to win. If that's our mindset than i don't know what we're even doing over there

Why, look at that! Looks like those funny little guys in sandals (and honestly, I don't get your preoccupation with their footwear, but what the hell) have already smoked almost a thousand of you rednecks. Look at the years, too: the freedom fighters are becoming more effective all the time.

I love how liberals like you think it's okay to slander white people with names like rednecks but I can't call a muslim terrorist a muslim terrorist.




And in closing:


"Two bipartisan investigations, one by the Senate Intelligence Committee and the other by a specially appointed Iraq Intelligence Commission chaired by Charles Robb and Laurence Silberman, found no direct evidence of political pressure applied to intelligence analysts."