Let Us Honor True Greatness!

[daruckis]

I've just seen the original Inglorious Bastards. It was pretty good.

you gotta see the new one. it was really good.

[Judge Faust]

So... How do you really feel about the Germans? OK Judge, I agree with part of what you said -- I think it was the culmination of many factors, and the society at the time was indeed a ticking timebomb for disaster, and it was certainly not his oratory skills alone... Didn't mean to imply that, and I haven't "bought" into any theories whatsoever. You yourself pointed out many aspects of what led to the regime taking power and carrying out the atrocities. That's what I was looking for, not simply that they were idiots. Thank you for being more specific, but no thank you for your blanketing disregard of an entire people. I believe most of us are born with the same moral and emotional potential, it is our experience that makes us who we are, and I'm far more intersted in taking that approach to understanding history than in using prejudice and bigotry. I'm not accusing you of that specifically, but you do seem to have a pretty solid hatred for the Germans in general. I don't know about you, but I don't take responsibility for the deeds of my ancestors, I just try my best to understand the circumstances that led to them.

No, that is not it at all... You are quite mistaken in your implicit condemnation of me as a bigot. I'd like to remind you that we Soviet Communists were the first people in the world to reject the barbaric concepts of "race" and "otherness."

So, yes, I obviously agree that all people are the same, and are born with the same potentials, neural wiring, and whatnot. That's a given. What changes people is the society they grow up in - its politics, ideologies, social norms, and so forth...

Basically, my claim is that, somehow, Germany warps Germans into a type of human being that happens to be just a bit more aggressive and a bit less empathetic than the rest of us. This obviously has nothing to do with genetics or strong orators.

What is it then? I have no idea. My guess is that it's a combination of factors:
(1) A nation shaped out of a fiercely militant tribal past...
(2) Experiencing continuous warfare from the very start (the Romans always did have a thing for it, to everyone's collective detriment)...
(3) Located in the very heart of Europe (and hence subjected to constant warfare of one kind or another)...
(4) Getting a taste of real power and liking it (think Germany's domination of the Holy Roman Empire)...
(5) And a national philosophy that emphasizes emotional detachment while deemphasizing sympathy for other human beings.

Basically, a ticking time bomb; one that will not fail to go off at the slightest provocation... Minor assassination? BOOM. Increased unemployment? BOOM. Chance to slaughter Muslims. BOOM.

Despite all this, I do not "hate" Germans, as you allege. They are imperfect, but they are human, and thus are entitled to the same rights and considerations as you and I. I simply want them to be given a cooling-off period - for example: no German soldier, acting in such capacity, will be allowed outside of Germany for the following 200 years.

[Premium Parrots]

I simply want them to be given a cooling-off period - for example: no German soldier, acting in such capacity, will be allowed outside of Germany for the following 200 years.

Grounding never works, they can sneek out. Try taking away their cell phones.

[Judge Faust]

And judge, how can you talk about the germans and how they have always been a bunch of militants, lusting for blood, yet you cannot admit the same about the "freedom fighters" in Afghanistan and Iraq? Is their history not one of militant extremism, wanting to conquer other lands etc? The difference is at leas tthe germans, after 2 world wars, still manage to have a decent country.

You're missing a crucial difference here, my friend: Germans tried to overrun all of Europe, much of Asia, and selected bits of Africa. Iraqis and Afghanis just want to be left the hell alone. Sure, you can go back to the Middle Ages for a rebuttal. My response to that: which nation was NOT trying to conquer neighbors during that time?

If your "freedom" fighters ever did obtain victory, they wouldn't do anything with it, they would instead go back to their villages and resume the oppression of their people like they were doing before we came there. Uneducated and without anything better to do than spread religious fanaticism around.

See, that's one of the main differences between the two of us. I just want all people everywhere to be given a choice as to how they want to lead their lives. You just want to shovel your Imperial lifestyle down their throats, even if you have to kill them first.

I don't care how the Afghanis choose to live after they drive out the occupiers; whatever they choose, I'll stand behind it (as long as it doesn't involve invading anyone else). Their choice is theirs. It is highly narcissistic of you to think that you know how they should live.

You criticize Bush for being a religion fanatic, and yet you don't see militant Islamics as religiouse fanatics.

My stance is that one is a "fanatic" if one chooses the irrational route, despite the consequences. The key point is irrationality.

Bush chose to invade two countries for no other reason than that he hates Muslims. Many people died as a result, and the Empire went bankrupt. Fanaticism? YES.

Iraqis and Afghanis chose to fight the occupiers so that their nations could be free. Fanaticism? NO.

[Premium Parrots]

...... You just want to shovel your Imperial lifestyle down their throats, even if you have to kill them first......

where theres a will theres a way.

[tom502]

The Germans of the 3rd Reich did not want to slaughter Muslims. They were allies with Muslims, and Palestine, and had Muslim regiments within the German Army.

[sgreger1]

You're missing a crucial difference here, my friend: Germans tried to overrun all of Europe, much of Asia, and selected bits of Africa. Iraqis and Afghanis just want to be left the hell alone. Sure, you can go back to the Middle Ages for a rebuttal. My response to that: which nation was NOT trying to conquer neighbors during that time?

No, let's keep it in the present timeframe. Are you under the impression that the muslim's are not slowly taking over much of europe in present day? I don't think they just want to be left alone, but I also don't think it's any of our business as long as they'r not trying to mess with us.

See, that's one of the main differences between the two of us. I just want all people everywhere to be given a choice as to how they want to lead their lives. You just want to shovel your Imperial lifestyle down their throats, even if you have to kill them first.

I don't care how the Afghanis choose to live after they drive out the occupiers; whatever they choose, I'll stand behind it (as long as it doesn't involve invading anyone else). Their choice is theirs. It is highly narcissistic of you to think that you know how they should live.

Not sure if you have been paying attention my friend, but I oppose our occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq, and I have voiced how there is no way to "bring democracy" to a people who doesn't want it.

I am more of an isolationist, and think that if we stick to our island and spend more on defense, than we would be in better shape. Frankly I think we should withdraw right now and let the terrorists resume control of iraq and afghanistan, so they can go back to beheading their own citizens and murdering school children. And you know why I endorse it? For the same reason you just pointed out, it's their country, they are a soverign nation, let them do what they may. Right now our economy is burning and we really need to focus on getting out of the mess we're in in our own country before trying to "improve" other nations, which I think is a silly idea anyways.

My stance is that one is a "fanatic" if one chooses the irrational route, despite the consequences. The key point is irrationality.

So you feel that the 9-11 incident was taking the rational route.

Bush chose to invade two countries for no other reason than that he hates Muslims. Many people died as a result, and the Empire went bankrupt. Fanaticism? YES.

Well here we hav eto agree to disagree. I don't think Bush hated Muslims, because if so he would have tried to hurt myuslims in his own land. Look at the japanese itnernment camps of WWII, if Bush wanted to he could have done that with Muslims.
We are at war for the same reason anyone has ever truly been at war: MONEY. And that's it.

I am not defending Bush at all, but what I am trying to see is why you see Bush attacking another country after 9-11 as fanatic, but yet not seeing the coorolation between the twin tower bombings, the 9-11 plane attacks, the ships blown up by radical muslims etc that led up to this. What about before Bush was in office, what was their excuse then?
Are you claiming that there are nomuslim fanatics and that Bush single handedly invented terrorism? You give the guy too much credit my friend.

Iraqis and Afghanis chose to fight the occupiers so that their nations could be free. Fanaticism? NO.

Their country never was free. They are fighting us so that we leave and the taliban and al quaida can go back to controlling the government and running the place like the mob. That is why they are fighting.

[tom502]

I think we should just get out now. And the more I see about 911, the more I question it. People behind closed doors play some big game of world chess, with you and I as disposable pieces. The Afganis don't want us there, whether our intention is good or bad. I mean, I think if China invaded the US to free it's people from tyranny, the American people still would fight against it, because it's a foreign invader.

[sgreger1]

I think we should just get out now. And the more I see about 911, the more I question it. People behind closed doors play some big game of world chess, with you and I as disposable pieces. The Afganis don't want us there, whether our intention is good or bad. I mean, I think if China invaded the US to free it's people from tyranny, the American people still would fight against it, because it's a foreign invader.

This nation was not brought to life by grand plans of conquering nations and building an empire. Our beginning were more humble, poor farmers and religious outcasts escaping oppression, or just trying to find a plot of land they could raise a farm and a family on. We were about fighting to the death to protect our little piece of land, and were unquestionably successfull. We were a free people, immegrants from many walks of life, all come together searching for freedom.


But we have grown very farm from our roots, and the tree of liberty is dying. We are trying to be like other countries, play big brother, be invovled in the UN, invading foreign countries. Its all nonesense, it's not why this country was made.

We were supposed to be different.


If the US fails, than where do we have left to go? The ****ing moon? This is the last stand for freedom, and we have become as bad as the people our forefathers hated. They crossed the sea and settled here only for their great great great grandchildren to be subject to the same shit they thought they had left behind.
This is why I am more to the right than to the left, because I believe we need to take a look at where our roots are, and where we come from and try to bring some of that back, as opposed to wanting to be some secular european society like the left wants, which is opposite of why our ancestors left europe in the first place.

[Judge Faust]

You're missing a crucial difference here, my friend: Germans tried to overrun all of Europe, much of Asia, and selected bits of Africa. Iraqis and Afghanis just want to be left the hell alone. Sure, you can go back to the Middle Ages for a rebuttal. My response to that: which nation was NOT trying to conquer neighbors during that time?

No, let's keep it in the present timeframe. Are you under the impression that the muslim's are not slowly taking over much of europe in present day? I don't think they just want to be left alone, but I also don't think it's any of our business as long as they'r not trying to mess with us.

The Muslims are taking over Europe? That's ludicrous even by your standards... It's called "immigration," my friend. People move around to find what they consider to be a better life; it's not a nefarious plot to take over your precious little white world.

Not sure if you have been paying attention my friend, but I oppose our occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq, and I have voiced how there is no way to "bring democracy" to a people who doesn't want it.

I am more of an isolationist, and think that if we stick to our island and spend more on defense, than we would be in better shape. Frankly I think we should withdraw right now and let the terrorists resume control of iraq and afghanistan, so they can go back to beheading their own citizens and murdering school children. And you know why I endorse it? For the same reason you just pointed out, it's their country, they are a soverign nation, let them do what they may. Right now our economy is burning and we really need to focus on getting out of the mess we're in in our own country before trying to "improve" other nations, which I think is a silly idea anyways.

Good. I agree - just not with your extremely conservative depiction of the Afghanis' alleged preferred lifestyle. Just leave them alone, and we'll all be happy.

So you feel that the 9-11 incident was taking the rational route.

Not the route I would have chosen, to be sure (I tremendously dislike the killing of innocent civilians, as you may or may not have gathered). It DID get you into two losing wars, however. Oh, and it bankrupted you.

So, nor irrational. Unsavory and uncalled for, but not irrational (HINT: being rational is not always the same thing as being decent).

Well here we hav eto agree to disagree. I don't think Bush hated Muslims, because if so he would have tried to hurt myuslims in his own land. Look at the japanese itnernment camps of WWII, if Bush wanted to he could have done that with Muslims.
We are at war for the same reason anyone has ever truly been at war: MONEY. And that's it.

Why hurt your own when you can hurt others? You're missing the neo-conservative mindset here...

Targeting Muslim Americans would risk a political backlash, as well as numerous Constitutional problems. Why not just slaughter foreign Muslims? If there is one thing that always unites Imperials, it is their hate of foreigners...

As for "MONEY'; heh. Come on, the little chimp is a cretin! Do you think he has any comprehension at all of economics? If this is based on money, then someone has fallen asleep at the wheel here... In case you missed it, the wars have sucked up countless billions of dollars by now. If this were Monopoly, it would be game over for Little Bush.

Their country never was free. They are fighting us so that we leave and the taliban and al quaida can go back to controlling the government and running the place like the mob. That is why they are fighting.

AND.... you're back to bashing on Afghanis. Once again - not your call, no matter how clever you imagine yourself to be.

Also, for your information, "freedom" is a descriptive rather than a political term. A nation does not become free by holding elections; it becomes free by not being occupied by foreigners. It is as simple as that. Once freedom is achieved, it doesn't matter what they do - they just need to be free to do it.

[Premium Parrots]

ZZzzzzz....

[tom502]

I tend to think it's the ultra left that is based on racial hate, especially towards European and European American culture, as they love it when Muslims come, or Mexicans, and do not adapt, or try to, but instead try to mold their host nation into where they came from. You can see this by the little barrios, and high Muslims segments. Yet, they support the Talibans because they don't want the "invaders" in their home countries, yet deride the Swiss from wanting to protect their culture by a benign vote to curb minaret constructions. It's like it's fine and dandy for foreign invaders under the guise of "immigration", legal or not, to not adapt and try and mold their host nation into their native land, yet it's bad, when the "occupiers" in a war try and stablize a barbaric and corrupt nation that is bent on suicide bombing school children. It's such a wacky world. Being here must be a sentence of some kind.

[sgreger1]

@ JudgeFaust


I just think we will enver agree here bro, seriously. You feel that prior to the American's coming in that everything was great and everyone was free and absent of oppression.

The taliban and alquaida move around to different countries occupying them and taking over their governments, it's the same as the US being there, but at least we try to do something good and pump some cash into the local economies.

Now your condoning 9-11 as a rational act, yet us retaliating is not rational to you.


I really hope we pull out of these wars so that your 2 favorite countries can remember what it's like to have to stand on their own feet. Even the afghan government is begging us to stay longer because he says they will not be able to hold back the insurgents alone.
I hope we do leave them and alquaida and the taliban take over the whole place, and return to slaughtering children and beheading anyone who does not agree with them. Then you can finnaly say "your people are free".

I find it funny how you say that imperialists hate foreigners, yet you hate hate Americans and claim theyr foreigners.

Your logic is like a pretzel and no matter how many times it twists and turns, it just ends up right back where it started. Making no sense.

I know it's cool when your young to be vigilant about radical ideas and anarchy/communism and all this other stuff, but I think you've really fallen off the deep end. You are condoning muslims who kill children and innocents yet hating America for what you claim is killing children and innocents. I mean it just makes no sense bro. If you think 9-11 was cool but we are an evil empire for responding to the attack, than I don't even know how to debate you any further.

[tom502]

I just wanna know what happened to the plane at the Pentagon.

[sgreger1]

I just wanna know what happened to the plane at the Pentagon.

I have my questions as well, and it's not outside the realm of possibility that the CIA staged something or funded the terrorists somehow. It wouldn't be the first, second, or third time they pulled it off.

But regardless 9-11 was only one example. The Muslims have been immegrating to other countries by the millions and once theres enough of them they call for the establishment of Sharia law in their communities etc. Back at home they are still killing people with dissenting religious views, corrupting governments, and building armies that if left unchecked could prove to be a real problem.


Then they want to go everywhere and play the weak liberals by demanding tolerance and appreciation for their cultures lack of civil (especially women's) rights etc.