Let Us Honor True Greatness!

[Judge Faust]

Everything else - you have got to stop listening to Western propaganda. The Empire is no friend of North Korea; its analysis of North Korea ought not be taken as gospel.

...and what information do you have to make you think these things are not true.

I'm afraid that is not how logic works, my friend. If you make an assertion, it is your responsibility to back it up; it is not mine to prove it wrong. You made some serious allegations as to North Korea - I simply ask that you provide some credible sources that do not come from its Western enemies.

A clean, highly intelligent, orderly, lawful nation, with an idealistic ideology is at a lower spectrum than Pakistan? Well, it only shows that we all see things in our own way.

What research are you basing these opinions on? I think there is a good argument that Pakistani citizens are worse off in many ways but I would personally rather be a Pakistani then a N. Korean because I could choose to move. I think anarchy is desirable over totalitarianism any day.

This begs the question: what "research" are YOU basing your "opinions" on? Is it the US-supplied one, perhaps? :roll:

[Judge Faust]

If you all hate America so much, than gtfo and quit your bitching. And Judge, the most ass backwards failure of a political analyist of all time, you hate America because you live in San Francisco. I would rather live in N Korea than the bay area, so I don't blame you.

Very typical right-wing arguments (or lack thereof). How banal.

Why should we get out of a country if we disagree with its politics? Isn't this the basis of your so-called democracy? You are here day and night "bitching" about California's politics. Why haven't YOU moved to a different state? Is that hypocrisy I smell?

Also, very nice of you to assume that the Bay Area has made me what I am. For your information, I have spent less time in the Bay Area than I have in Los Angeles and the Imperial Midwest. Thank you for leaping to unfounded conclusions, though; I would expect nothing less from a fanatical fascist sympathizer.

To everyone else who thinks America is worse than 3rd world countries run by dictators, **** you and get out into the real world someday and realize how comfy a life you have here. We ain't perfect, but we're better than most.

Heh, cute.

If I were to press you on this matter, I am sure that you would argue that a "3rd world country" is any nation ruled by a "dictator," and a "dictator" is any ruler that your government currently dislikes.

You need to calm down, my friend. I suggest that you use your brain instead of your volatile emotions when arguing a point.

[Judge Faust]

Judge Faust, you left Pol Pot off your list...

Yes. I also left off Stalin and the Kims. The reason being that I include only those that I consider to be good Communists, rather than those that distort the glorious truth of Marxism-Leninism.

I thrive on the opportunities I create to make an attempt at genuine understanding of the world's differences through travel, constructive dialog, historical knowledge, and my firm stance on cultural relativism. I understand that you did not know this about me, and you are pardoned for presuming that I share the undying patriotism and unforgiving political self-righteousness of the majority that must have informed your assessment of me as close-minded toward those who support China's government. I ask questions to listen and learn, not to argue my counter-point.

My apologies, then. I am glad that you keep an open mind when conversing with people whose viewpoints differ from your own.

On to the Chairman: He was a vile human being when the sum of his deeds are added up. I would hope that because he is one of your "all-time best people" or whatever you said, you have read a biography or two and consulted some history books.

I have apologized for questioning your intelligence and knowledge. I now ask that you do not question mine. I am well-versed in Chinese history, thank you very much.

He temporarily and admirably joined the ranks of his enemy to defeat the Japanese, then turned his efforts back to the plight of the proletariat and against all odds, led his contingency to a truly heroic victory over the Guomindang.

No, not quite. For all intents and purposes, the Communists were the only real resistance to the fascist Japanese invaders. Chiang Kai-shek and his minions did next to zero for their fellow countrymen.

He established an equality of the sexes that at the time had no precedent anywhere in the world.

"No precedent?" Really? You may be interested to know that the Soviet Union "established an equality of the sexes" back in 1917.

Can I assume you know what came of his "great leap forward"?

Apparently not. You seem to consider me to be an undereducated yokel, for some reason...

Possibly the largest famine in human history. There are accounts of the means people employed to stay alive that are way too horrific to detail here. Yet he refused to change course, accept outside help, or admit that his agricultural reforms were based purely on blind ambition and fantasy and continued to deny through propaganda that the nation was anything but prospering. As a result, his beloved peasants and farmers were dying by the tens of millions, and he was solely to blame for denying that there were enormous holes in his plot for fear that he would lose power. Hardly heroic. I trust that you know the outcome of his genius idea to melt pots, pans, and all metallic personal property collected from the masses for the purpose of competing with Britain's steel production. Then came the Cultural Revolution. I assume you are aware of what resulted from this ideological horrorshow and the cult of personality he created? Children sent their parents to labor camps. Students literally hanged or stoned to death their teachers. Scholars and scientists were paraded through the streets wearing "counterevolutionary" billboards on their way to public execution. Ancient religious texts and temples were burned and destroyed. Families destroyed. Out with the old, in with the new. He ordered the total destruction of China's 5,000 year history. His zealous, fanatic army of brain-washed teenagers carried out some of history's greatest atrocities in his name. He purposefully aimed to and partially succeeded in robbing a whole nation of its humanity by abolishing and prohibiting art, science, tradition, academics, historical treasure, and the religious and philosophical contributions of thousands of years of one of our greatest societies. His armies (and to be fair, those of his successors) reduced the number of Tibetan monasteries and temples by 99%. Monks, doctors, professors, poets, artists, and landowners were forced into hard labor.

Yes, yes. Some of that is Imperial propaganda. Some of that is unfortunately true.

What can I say? I already conceded that the man was lacking when it came to administrative skills. Maybe the PRC would now be better off had Chairman Mao died immediately following the revolution. Maybe not.

I assume that we both agree that it is better off now than it would have been as a British puppet state, however.

I'd be surprised if anyone is still reading. If so, does this sound like a hero to anyone?

I'm still reading. And yes, Chairman Mao is still a hero to me. You can be a hero, too: you simply have to save mankind from fascist slavery. I suggest that you get to it while you're still young.

[tom502]

There are some major areas I have disagreements with them, but my fave world leaders have been Hitler, Stalin, Kim Jong Il, and I do enjoy watching Amedhinjad, but I don't care for Casto, Guevara, Chavez, and I'm sorta on the fence with Mao, and Mussolini. I do like Putin.

[Roo]

Wow the insanity of this thread is advancing like a goose-stepping military parade through the empty streets of Pyongyang, and Tom502, you're at the helm, waving from a tank and admiring your hell-hole through oversized Ray Bans. Any semi-interesting or valid points you brought up have been annihilated with your endorsement of HITLER. Jesus Christ man.

Ahem, anyway, Judge Faust, reading through my post I apologize for inferring at any point that you don't know your history or that you are uneducated; as you pointed out in similar words, it's a matter of perception.

[RedMacGregor]

[tom502]

The only bad thing about Hitler was his ethno-centric nationalism, and expansion, and anti-semiticsm. If we just look at the socio-economic system, and the asthetics, and design, and ideals in science, technology, ecological concerns, etc., it was the best and most advanced system I think, in modern history. Yes, he did some bad stuff, but so has the US, USSR, Japan, China, etc. But I don't think we have to deny all the good ideas because of the bad, for if we do that to Germany, we have to do that to every nation.

[Roo]

Germany is a fine place, Tom, I've lived there. And not because of the US military as is usually assumed. If you have admiration for Hitler for any reason whatsoever, you are either evil yourself and/or stark-raving mad, or terribly misinformed. I'm beginning to think it's both. I highly suggest that you visit a concentration camp or at least watch hours upon hours of 70-pound Jews, homosexuals, gypsies, dissidents, mothers and children together, etc getting burned alive, gassed, shot in the head, and piled in mass graves all thenaks to your socio-economically-minded, forward-thinking, ashetically pleasing hero. I give up.

RedMacGregor, welcome to the forum, I don't think anyone has been trolling. We actually like doing this :wink:

[Veganpunk]

All I will say good about Hitler was the man was a damn good public speaker. Other then that he was a crack pot evil asshole.

[tom502]

I said I acknowledge the negatives of the Hitler regime. But I think this is a problem we have in the US. America was at war with Germany, so no matter what, we can never acknowledge a single positive thing about them. It's propaganda. All the experts say what China did, and the USSR did was worse than Germany. The US's hands are not clean either. But if because a nation did bad things, we have to refuse to accept any good? Well, maybe we all should throw out our TV sets, and be happy when the space shuttle explodes? It just doesn't make sense to me. I try to look at things, with the idea, what postives can we take from this? What negatives can we see. You know during WW2, the USA gathered up it's own citizens of German and Japanese decent and placed them in camps. Were they mistreated? Did any die? Who knows what to believe? The US dropped 2 nuclear bombs on Japan, have you seen the after effects of that, on the civilians, and the children? Yet the US with it's stockpiles of nukes, wants to prevent anyone else having them. So should we hope the US loses in the middle east? My point is, I think, we should look at all things in a non-biased way. Everyone has done terrible things, nationally.

[sgreger1]

If you all hate America so much, than gtfo and quit your bitching. And Judge, the most ass backwards failure of a political analyist of all time, you hate America because you live in San Francisco. I would rather live in N Korea than the bay area, so I don't blame you.

Very typical right-wing arguments (or lack thereof). How banal.

Why should we get out of a country if we disagree with its politics? Isn't this the basis of your so-called democracy? You are here day and night "bitching" about California's politics. Why haven't YOU moved to a different state? Is that hypocrisy I smell?

Also, very nice of you to assume that the Bay Area has made me what I am. For your information, I have spent less time in the Bay Area than I have in Los Angeles and the Imperial Midwest. Thank you for leaping to unfounded conclusions, though; I would expect nothing less from a fanatical fascist sympathizer.

To everyone else who thinks America is worse than 3rd world countries run by dictators, **** you and get out into the real world someday and realize how comfy a life you have here. We ain't perfect, but we're better than most.

Heh, cute.

If I were to press you on this matter, I am sure that you would argue that a "3rd world country" is any nation ruled by a "dictator," and a "dictator" is any ruler that your government currently dislikes.

You need to calm down, my friend. I suggest that you use your brain instead of your volatile emotions when arguing a point.

I hate the legislator here in CA, but I love my state. I hate what's happening in my government, but I am no traitor to my country. I love America, I just hate that it's turning into europe. At this point you seem to have completely stopped reading my commetns and are just cherry picking things you can complain about. The point is judge, there is no country with perfect government. At least in America I have a high quality of life. I would not be afforded that in N Korea or China or Pakistan etc as a white male. If you think life is better somewhere else, than please go there. If I thought somewhere else was better, I too would go there, but for now this is the only country I have.

[sgreger1]

I said I acknowledge the negatives of the Hitler regime. But I think this is a problem we have in the US. America was at war with Germany, so no matter what, we can never acknowledge a single positive thing about them. It's propaganda. All the experts say what China did, and the USSR did was worse than Germany. The US's hands are not clean either. But if because a nation did bad things, we have to refuse to accept any good? Well, maybe we all should throw out our TV sets, and be happy when the space shuttle explodes? It just doesn't make sense to me. I try to look at things, with the idea, what postives can we take from this? What negatives can we see. You know during WW2, the USA gathered up it's own citizens of German and Japanese decent and placed them in camps. Were they mistreated? Did any die? Who knows what to believe? The US dropped 2 nuclear bombs on Japan, have you seen the after effects of that, on the civilians, and the children? Yet the US with it's stockpiles of nukes, wants to prevent anyone else having them. So should we hope the US loses in the middle east? My point is, I think, we should look at all things in a non-biased way. Everyone has done terrible things, nationally.

But what I noticed Tom, is that you and judge like to disregard evils of other countries but acknowledge the good parts, all while failing to do that with America. When it comes to America, you only can remember the bad parts and never once in this entire thread have I heard anything of the GOODs America has done.


I tend to try whenever possible to get my news from other countries in eruope etc because I hate the media in America as of late, becoming more state controlled every day. In regards to hitler, the man has nothing going for him, other than that he is everything short of a comic book supervillian.

HOWEVER, like I said in a post on snuson once, which ended up in everyone calling me a jew hater, is that his science department was ages ahead of us. It was only after we stole Von Braun and the other scientists that we became a dominant power in the world. Them coming over to our side is responsible for much fo the growth of this country.


But at the end of the day, you all fail in your attempts to call America an empire. If we were fascists we would be out taking over countries, and not playing this bs 100 year war shit we're on. WW|| lasted 4 years and ended with us nuking 2 japanese cities, nowadays we're 8 years into it and have no sign of victory, or een a clear plan> We're just there to be there, so that the defense contractors can soak up taxpayer dollars.


Judge, you seem to be very well read when it comes to other countries, try reading up a little about America, you'll see that lik the countries you love so much, we too have had our good times and our bad. It's just part of being a big country that constantly has leadership change every several years.

Also, **** communism.

[tom502]

Ah, it don't matter. It's just all of us giving our own opinions, and we all have our own bias/perspectives.

[Roo]

I said I acknowledge the negatives of the Hitler regime. But I think this is a problem we have in the US. America was at war with Germany, so no matter what, we can never acknowledge a single positive thing about them. It's propaganda. All the experts say what China did, and the USSR did was worse than Germany. The US's hands are not clean either. But if because a nation did bad things, we have to refuse to accept any good? Well, maybe we all should throw out our TV sets, and be happy when the space shuttle explodes? It just doesn't make sense to me. I try to look at things, with the idea, what postives can we take from this? What negatives can we see. You know during WW2, the USA gathered up it's own citizens of German and Japanese decent and placed them in camps. Were they mistreated? Did any die? Who knows what to believe? The US dropped 2 nuclear bombs on Japan, have you seen the after effects of that, on the civilians, and the children? Yet the US with it's stockpiles of nukes, wants to prevent anyone else having them. So should we hope the US loses in the middle east? My point is, I think, we should look at all things in a non-biased way. Everyone has done terrible things, nationally.

I can acknowledge a shitload of great things about Germany. I love the place. I'm talking about individuals, not nations. Once someone calls for the extermination and brutal treatment of millions of human beings, their positive character traits (if any) are moot. It's as silly as saying you admire Jeffrey Dahmer not because he killed and ate people, but because he was good at math. Or that Ted Bundy may have done some bad things, but golly he sure knew how to pick up chicks.

The Nazi regime employing good scientists and endorsing technological advancement does not redeem their historical legacy in any way, in my opinion. But whatever. I agree with you about much of what you said regarding nuclear arms and our use of the atomic bombs in Japan. It was an absolute atrocity. To look at Hitler in a non-biased way, though, is to have no bias against world takeover, mass murder, and brutality. You called him a "fave world leader" LOL. Clearly you weren't joking, and I'm frankly surprised that people haven't jumped all over your ass for saying so. I tried, but I'm over it.

[sgreger1]

and I'm frankly surprised that people haven't jumped all over your ass for saying so. I tried, but I'm over it.

On Snuson people only jump all over your ass if you defend America. If you say we are worse than the Nazi's but that Hitler was secretly a great human being, there will be praise from abroad.

Hitler was a sociapath just like many world leaders who have commited such attrocities.