Obamacare

[sgreger1]

Instead of chain e-mails, let's look at some of today's news:

Obama struck deal with for-profit hospital lobbyists to kill the public option, while still touting the public option

"There are only 115 Democratic members in seats where the putative support for the health care legislation is 50 percent or higher"

Idaho becomes the first state to sign an executive measure requiring the states attorney general to sue Congress if the HC reform bill passes and it forces residents to buy insurance. Similar legislation is pending in 37 other states nationwide.

Almost half of family practice doctors, who are already treated by government and insurers like they work for nothing, feel that health care reform will force them out of medicine

Mass. Democrat Treasurer says if Obamacare is enacted it will destroy the economy in less than four years

Dennis Kucinich (D-eep space), who just this past Sunday wrote an op-ed reaffirming his 'No' vote on the current health care bill, anticipated to flip-flop tomorrow, sell out patients to insurance companies

I think Kucinich made his point before when he stated:

"a giveaway to the insurance industry"
"lost the initiative the minute that our party jumped into bed with the insurance companies."
"bailout for the insurance industry"
"But instead of working toward the elimination of for-profit insurance, H.R. 3962 would put the government in the role of accelerating the privatization of health care."
"This health care bill continues the redistribution of wealth to Wall Street at the expense of America’s manufacturing and service economies"

But a ride on airforce one and now all that is behind him, he is ready to sell out.

I still think they can pass it, but with absolutley no republicans support and not enough democrat support (yet), this thing is going to go down in the history books either way.

[Bigblue1]

I'm listening to Alex Jones on his Sunday edition right now. He is Breaking this plan down like no one else. go to www.infowars.com and jump on the live stream if you want the truth...... already in an hour on the 2 hour show but it will re-broadcast till mondays show....

[sgreger1]

Anyone know what time the vote will be at?


This whole thing is genius. I have to hand it to the democrats, they are professionals.

They said for weeks they would use the slaughter option and not vote on it, then the day before the vote they say they will. Then that whole memo to the AMA comes out regarding the doc fix and they claim it's a hoax right before the vote. We all know they are going to pass the doc fix and give more money to medicare otherwise companies (like Walgreens just did) will stop taking medicare patients. Many places no longer take medicare patients because the gov insurance doesn't even pay what the service/drug is worth, so they HAVE to add this in later on. I work at an insurance company so I see this every day. If a drug is worth 50$, the gov insurance will only pay 40$, so people stop taking it. There is no way they could NOT add the $500 billion to the doc fix at a later time, it's literally impossible if their plan is to add more people to medicare, but they are spinning it as a republican hoax.

And what about all the stuff Obama was saying about adding republican ideas in there? He talked a big game, but like we all know, none of that got included. No tort reform,no health savings plans, illegals still get covered, and amnesty is the next bill that's about to come forward.


All they did was take an expensive ass bill, strip all the expensive stuff out so it looks like it will help the deficit for the vote, and then they will just add in all the expensive stuff in later. It's genius.

[Bigblue1]

This bill is truly affecting people i know, who were ostriches witht their head in the sand up till now. For example, My mother who when i was growing up could make the buffalo on a nickel shit she squeezed it so hard. After losing an exorbitant amount of money after the DCB (dot com bubble) Was never roped in again. She lives a great life t this point and is still working at 64. But this one is going to affect her, she knows this she can't not do anything and protect her wealth with this one. That said she has no idea how to fight it because she has been able to protect herself just by withdrawing for so long. Also she doesn't want to admit that my "crazy talk" isn't so crazy after all. She actually thinks we'll just Vote the Bumbs out and get it repealed later. She is not a stupid women, quite the contrary, but this shit is getting so whacked out people don't know what to think..... We all know, once this passes it is here to stay........

[sagedil]

Damn I haven't posted here in a long time, but I have to get in on this. I have a pre-existing condition which exempts me from being covered by any individual plan. My only way to get coverage is from being on a group plan offered by an employer. That is not O.K. I NEED insurance to get my meds, which out of pocket cost in the 1000's a month. People like me need an option. It's sickening that insurance companies can turn down people such as myself, who need it the most. I personally think all Americans should be covered, but at least we need to get rid of the pre-existing condition issue.

I have an option in Colorado called Cover Colorado, which I am on. It's very good insurance that covers people who are exempt from other plans due to certain pre-existing conditions. I don't know that there are any other states that have a program like this, so I am very fortunate, but tied down as far as moving is concerned.

I think if you are a proud American, you should be looking out for the well being of your fellow citizen. We really need to at least realize that our current system is broken, and we need some dramatic change. I just hope that our politicians are going to do right by us. At this point all I can do is trust them. I know, I'm crazy right?

Senator Michael Bennet of Colorado has gone on record in interviews stating that he will vote for healthcare reform even if it costs him his job. We need this kind of attitude from all politicians, no matter what side of the debate they're on. Politics should not be about a career, but rather doing what is right for this country. That come to the central reason why we can't trust most politicians, they do what will get them re-elected, not what's right for this country.

Also, I might get flamed for this, but if we cut down a bit on some of our ridiculous amount of defense spending, maybe we wouldn't be so worried about how we're gonna pay for this.

Thank you for posting your story. Not that some folks will here. But thank you nevertheless.

[Bigblue1]

Please don't make it seem like people don't want to help other people. The American people are some of the most compassionate, caring, and giving people in History. I would bet that we give more without being forced to than any other group of people in history. I for one would vote for a true public option. One that wasn't corrupted by money. There are a lot of good reasons to have a public option. But this bill being ram-rodded thru the system is not the answer. There are so many reasons why.... I can't even begin and don't feel like typing a sgreger like post. People need to get the info for themselves and stop being such a complacent herd in the mean time.

[sgreger1]

Your right Blue, a lot of people try to spin it like "if you don't like this bill, you are against helping people who are sick". The dems in congress have been using this line of attack all year, posting signs like "Republican health care plan = you die". It's just nonsense.


What we need is some real reform. I thank Obama for bringing the HC debate back to the forefront of the American people's minds because it is an important one. I don't like most of whats in this bill, but that doesn't mean I don't think we should have reform.

Personally I think we should have a single payer system. I know it's "socialism" and all that but so is the police dept and the army and if we have to change it, anything short of a single payer system will be just as abused as our current system is.

To just make everyone buy insurance and then subsidize some of that with government money, while not address the increasing cost of HC is a sham.


I know people on the right will disagree, but honestly, while there is a slightly higher amount of rationing etc in canadian and Europeans HC systems, single payer as a whole provides a better product to a wider range of individuals. What the dems have proposed is just more class warfare, charging the middle class to pay for the poor. Giving the insurance companies another 35 million customers, while at the same time campaigning against the evil insurance companies= hypocrites.

[Snusmun]

Single payer would be great...but unfortunately many of the Dems and virtually all of the Repugs have health insurance money in their pocket, including Obama obviously. Never gonna happen in the land of corporate profiteering and exploitation. This bill is deeply flawed in many ways, but I have to say it is way way way better than nothing at all.

and here comes the vote.......

[sgreger1]

Yah when are they voting? Any minute I think. As of an hour ago they had the votes. Test vote: 224-206.

"Today is the day that is going to rank with the day we passed the civil rights bill in 1964,"

"This is a day of which we can all be proud if we vote for that legislation."

Lol, it's so fake it's not even funny.



As if forcing you to buy insurance is the same as stopping the oppression of people based on their skin color? Rofl.

[redheadedmax]

As if forcing you to buy insurance is the same as stopping the oppression of people based on their skin color? Rofl.

Forcing you to buy a product from the very same people who created the problem in the first place nonetheless. :shock:

It seems to me that if the government can mandate that I purchase a product from a private company simply because I exist they can mandate anything. What's next?

I hope this thing is litigated to hell and back for the next decade or two.

[Snusmun]

Forcing you to buy a product from the very same people who created the problem in the first place nonetheless. :shock:

.

The insurance industry is not to blame. They are doing what they are legally required to do as a corporation...maximize profits for the sake of the shareholder. Just like any other corporation. Heartless, soul less decisions.

At least this bill mitigates some of those decisions.

If you want to blame someone, blame the politicians that allowed the insurance industry to profit from life and death decisions. Blame Nixon.

[sgreger1]

This whole administration seems to be focused on setting new precedents that can be seized on in the future.

Making someone buy something for being an American is pretty sketchy. But really the problem here is that the HI industry is for profit, and the government also has their own insurance (Medicare etc) and all together they end up making a bad system.


A dr that needs to make 50$ to be profitable, has to charge 100$ since he knows the gov insurance (medicare) will short cut him every time, so if he charges 100, they will pay 50. Then the insurance companies cut a deal with the Dr's to pay half also, so the Dr's are forced to raise the prices artificially to make it profitable and in the end the whole free market "Pay what it costs+ a little profit" idea is thrown out of the window.


While this bill does begin to address some of the problems in the HC industry, it's not anything close to "historic reform" like they are claiming. They did more than the republicans, i'll give them that, but it's not much. I swear if this in any way affects my current employer provided insurance I am going to flip. I understand people without insurance who are pissed, but in reality they are the minority. If 90% of the countries employer provided insurance gets touched this is going to get ugly.

[redheadedmax]

Forcing you to buy a product from the very same people who created the problem in the first place nonetheless. :shock:

.

The insurance industry is not to blame. They are doing what they are legally required to do as a corporation...maximize profits for the sake of the shareholder. Just like any other corporation. Heartless, soul less decisions.

That's why I always have had a health savings account along with a catastrophic health/life policy and paid cash for visits. $30 to see a doctor for an hour where I live. Now, apparently, the health care execs will get up to 8% of my annual income or I will be fined by the government? :shock:

I guess I no longer have the right to choose who gets my hard earned money.

I'll take the fine.

[redheadedmax]

They did more than the republicans, i'll give them that, but it's not much.

This bill is an insurance exec's wet dream come true. Guaranteed income stream for life and no chance of there ever being any competition from the government or anyone else since I'm sure the government will never allow any new competitors to get into the game.

[sgreger1]

I agree.


How mad does it make you to see Obama out giving speeches talking about how he hates "special interests" and how evil the insurance companies are, and then turn around and sign off on a bill that FORCES you to make them a profit. 400 million guaranteed customers... don't give me your "I hate lobbyists and special interests BS anymore Obama. No more. Soon no one will listen to you, and you will feel like Bush, doing the walk of shame out of office with nothing to show for it but more dead bodies and a failed legacy.