supporting the troops

[Kindrd]

So.........Uh.........What's your favorite brand of Snus???

Exactly, :lol:

[OrderOfSolve]

My take on it is as follows: Love makes the world go around, but Money greases the wheel! It all boils down to the mighty Dollar or Oil! same difference!

[RealmofOpeth]

Most of the real terrorists are funded and organised by the US government itself,

Yea, we Americans are evil alright. Our Government is just a weak cover for Satans minions. Our companies rape the world. Come on. The world should stop thinking their shit don't stink and work on their own problems. Most of these Governments are using Anti-Americanism to deflect attention away from themselves anyway.

there's a bigass difference between 'we Americans' and 'US Government'
there's also a big difference between greedy/consciousless groups in the government, and the rest of the government.
this dichotomy, black/white thinking is where you're getting lost. let there be no doubt that there are countries that are lazy and should focus on their own problems and but try to prop up anti american thought...but that doesn't mean whatsoever that there isn't a lot of cleaning up to do regarding actions of groups within our government.
assuming you're or the entire country is equated with the worst people in the government because somebody complains about our government is like jumping in front of a bus and claiming it tried to hit you.

[Zero]

Exactly. I'm not blaming "Americans" or even "The US Government" in its entirety - I blame the neoconservatives, an elite clique of criminal gangster bastards who managed to worm their way into every power structure on planet earth. The only thing I blame anyone else for is not paying attention enough to notice, and I think "blame" is probably too strong a word at that - they've tricked a lot of people. I mean, Bush's granddaddy sold weapons and materials to the Nazis, his daddy armed and funded Saddam...these aren't nice people.

[OrderOfSolve]

Bush's granddaddy sold weapons and materials to the Nazis, his daddy armed and funded Saddam...these aren't nice people.

Be careful Zero! With that statement you scored a point! We're gonna have to call you "one" :lol:

[Kindrd]

Every country looks after its interests, thats all I'm saying. I just get sick of the anti-americanism all the time. I truely do respect everyones opinion here, just don't agree. Now I'm off to enjoy Swedish Culture for awhile.

[victoryredchevy]

Every country looks after its interests, thats all I'm saying. I just get sick of the anti-americanism all the time. I truely do respect everyones opinion here, just don't agree. Now I'm off to enjoy Swedish Culture for awhile.

I agree with you. I believe the actual American people get a bad image because of the constant stupidity of the US Government. Bush is the laughing stock of his own nation and many American people don't share the same views as the scoundrals in congress that make all the big decisions. I, however, do not agree with these people that believe that just because we don't support the "war", we should not support the troops. Soldiers are trained and treated like dogs and built back up to DEFEND their country and a worthy cause. I don't believe the "war" in Iraq is defending America or a worthy cause. Our troops are sitting ducks for radicals to pick off or blow up. I thought we went overseas to seek and destroy Sadaam and Bin-Laden and the terrorist regiments that are there or are linked to the 9/11 attacks. Instead it's turned into a mission to bring independence and freedom to a country that will never accept that. The idea was to punish those responsible for the attacks, not reform a nation. Those are two totally different animals if you ask me. When it comes to America and national pride, I'm greedy. I love my country. America has no business in the middle east. If the radicals from the Mid-East want to bring their hatred to American soil, they're ignorant. That's how I feel. If we would have taken care of the people who deserved it first of all, we wouldn't have a long, drawn out cluster f**k like we have now. Now all you see is "hate America" nearly everywhere, because we've worn out our welcome and have gone totally off track with this thing. Stopping support of the American troops is not the key to ending the war, believe me. If it was, there are plenty enough Americans that already don't support them, that the war would be over by now. The key is getting someone in the oval office that has not only balls, but an ego-less, fully functioning brain between their ears. When it comes to these types of subjects I'm a very "old-hat" type of thinker. I think the cowards responsible for the attacks on innocent Americans on 9/11 should have been punished mercilessly all the while sparing as many innocent civilians as possibe, which isn't easy. I don't believe dropping nukes on the entire country of Iraq would've solved anything, though. War is war. People die. The fact is that this was never a true war. I honestly couldn't tell you what it is anymore. Nonsense, I guess is what I'd say. America has it's own issues. Reforming Iraq and turning it into a Democracy is the least of my concerns.

[Zero]

^ The thing I find disturbing about that viewpoint is the persistence in thinking that George Bush and his criminal allies are somehow stupid or "****ing things up" - I guarantee you that they absolutely are not. They are doing exactly what they want to be doing and they are getting the results that they want. Did the guard who "fell asleep" whilst the bank was being robbed actually sink the day on account of sheer incompetence, or is it just a bold-faced lie and a sheepish face to cover up the fact that he's getting 20% of the vault?

This clinging to the idea that they're all somehow morons comes from, I think, a lack of willingness to accept that, perhaps, the people who have found their way into power have an agenda which is not in the best interest of the everyday person, but solely in their own interest - in advancing their own goals and increasing their own power and wealth. This is what's happening. You don't get to be the President by being a ****up - you get there by proving you can be trusted to do what you are told and by proving that you share the goals and the capacity for treachery of the people who put you there.

[OrderOfSolve]

Mark Twain said it best: “America is a nation without a distinct criminal class...with the possible exception of Congress."

This is from The Capital Hill Blue website:

Our Research found 117 members of the House and Senate who have run at least two businesses each that went bankrupt, often leaving business partners and creditors holding the bag. Seventy-one of them have credit reports so bad they can't get an American Express card (but as members of Congress they get a government-issured Amex card without a credit check).

Fifty-three have personal and financial problems so serious they would be denied security clearences by the Department of Defense or the Department of Energy if they had to apply through normal channels (but, again, as members of Congress they get such clearences simply because they fooled enough people to get elected).

Twenty-nine members of Congress have been accused of spousal abuse in either criminal or civil proceedings. Twenty-seven have driving while intoxicated arrests on their driving records. Twenty-one are current defendants in various lawsuits, ranging from bad debts, disputes with business partners or other civil matters.

Nineteen members of Congress have been accused of writing bad checks, even after the scandal several years ago, which resulted in closure of the informal House bank that routinely allowed members to overdraw thier accounts without penalty. Fourteen members of Congress have drug-related arrests in their background, eight were arrested for shoplifting, seven for fraud, four for theft, three for assault and one for criminal trespass.

In 1998 alone, 84 were stopped for drunk driving but released after they claimed Congressional immunity.

Dunno how true it is but it's something to think about?? could be true??

I think that most Americans are good honest hard working people that would give the shirt off their back to help anyone. I consider myself the average Joe and I strive to be this way (do unto others and all). Unfortunately our choice pool of politicians doesn't reflect the common person in this country, meaning it's not gonna get any better!

[Zero]

Unfortunately our choice pool of politicians doesn't reflect the common person in this country, meaning it's not gonna get any better!

Not, at least, until good, honest people start running in elections. Unfortunately, when that happens, the rich criminal crooks, who own the media, tell everyone that the good people are psychotic, evil, or just loopy (or all of the above) while simultaneously praising themselves as saintly heroes... and people believe them - because they don't pay attention. It's not that there aren't any good people to choose from, people just don't invest the time to consider their options properly. They take what they're spoonfed rather than what they go out and find for themselves. When you're happy to be spoonfed, you get what you're given, I suppose.

You can add Bush to that list of people who have bankrupted companies for their own personal profit, by the way - leaving friends and business partners with the damage. Now him and his new friends are doing it with America...

[victoryredchevy]

^ The thing I find disturbing about that viewpoint is the persistence in thinking that George Bush and his criminal allies are somehow stupid or "****ing things up" - I guarantee you that they absolutely are not. They are doing exactly what they want to be doing and they are getting the results that they want. Did the guard who "fell asleep" whilst the bank was being robbed actually sink the day on account of sheer incompetence, or is it just a bold-faced lie and a sheepish face to cover up the fact that he's getting 20% of the vault?

This clinging to the idea that they're all somehow morons comes from, I think, a lack of willingness to accept that, perhaps, the people who have found their way into power have an agenda which is not in the best interest of the everyday person, but solely in their own interest - in advancing their own goals and increasing their own power and wealth. This is what's happening. You don't get to be the President by being a ****up - you get there by proving you can be trusted to do what you are told and by proving that you share the goals and the capacity for treachery of the people who put you there.

Bush is a ****up: Because many American people, such as myself, have always had in mind that it's a possibility that it is a coverup by him. That is why I said he's the butt of the joke in the very nation he's supposedly overseeing. The American people are ready for his term to be over and make a fresh start with a new President and new ideas. I don't doubt for one second that you're right Zero, but the only option now is to wait out this greed that's going on and elect a new leader. I believe the constant and steady decline of American Democracy, has proven there is almost no great way to have a moral government this day and age or maybe it's just an American problem.Once upon a time, the man that took the role of American President was highly respected and really did make decisions based on what was trully right and just and best for the American people. What happened to that? I don't know. I believe another issue is the failure for Americans to see what is happening with the government and make a difference. American have gotten too cozy with what we have and take our nation and what it was trully founded on for granted or they just think that those old standards set by our founding fathers are irrelevant garbage these days. The politically correct, panty-waist bullshit has to stop. I believe with the electing of a new leader and the ending of the joke in Iraq there will be many other possitives that come along. Overall, I think it's time for America to regroup and regain ITSELF and a major part of that is pulling out of the Middle East.

[Zero]

but the only option now is to wait out this greed that's going on and elect a new leader.

You impeached Clinton for having his dick sucked - surely this scale of criminal action gives the people something to grieve?

[RealmofOpeth]

. I, however, do not agree with these people that believe that just because we don't support
the "war", we should not support the troops.

well, i don't know how else better to explain it other than re-read or read my posts and let it sink in and think about it some. i'm not asking you to agree, but to at least see eye to eye on the matter or where i'm coming from.

Soldiers are trained and treated like dogs and built back up to DEFEND their country and a worthy cause.

actually they're trained rather the opposite, or more precisely, the 'pre-emptive war' doctrine. no longer the defense of the country. the active offensive invasion, masked as 'defense' to thwart a 'suspected' threat. like they did with iraq. trust me, it is actually blatantly being TAUGHT. thankfully, we skimmed right over this ****ing garbage in ALS, since I and a few others had quite a bunch of questions and gripes to make about it so we just sorta blew it off as a whole compared to the other material, hopefully fewer people in my class absorbed it besides the fact that there is a problem.

I don't believe the "war" in Iraq is defending America or a worthy cause.

then why should anybody join or want to stay in? this is the premise upon which i do not support people doing.

Our troops are sitting ducks for radicals to pick off or blow up. I thought we went overseas to seek and destroy Sadaam and Bin-Laden and the terrorist regiments that are there or are linked to the 9/11 attacks. Instead it's turned into a mission to bring independence and freedom to a country that will never accept that.

actually it was about invading afghanistan to punish for 9/11 attacks (while at the same time, Bush already gave the order to invade afghanistan before 9/11), then they tried to tenuously link Iraq to 9/11, which it had nothing whatsoever to do with. freedom is only a feel-good cloak the neocons have draped over this war of aggression in an aim to establish the area as a base on the other side of Iran and otherwise take control of resources.

The idea was to punish those responsible for the attacks, not reform a nation.

well like i mentioned before, Iraq had ZERO to do with 9/11. the only reason 'al-qaeda' is there now, is because we opened the flood gates by disrupting the place. if we hadn't gone in, saddam still sitting there, al-qaeda wouldn't be there.
besides...we never investigated shit until 430 days after the 9/11 attacks which the white house was really not wanting to have anything to do with. that's long after we invaded afghanistan of course and Iraq.
The problem I have with 9/11, is that the investigation was totally fixed around the conclusions and only looked for the 'answers' to support it.

I think the cowards responsible for the attacks on innocent Americans on 9/11 should have been punished mercilessly all the while sparing as many innocent civilians as possibe, which isn't easy.

I couldn't agree more. Now, before you come to the wrong assumptions. I believe there are religious crazy jihad terrorists, and they want to kill us. But frankly, 9/11 is still yet to be fully solved. The fact you seem to think Iraq had anything to do with it, sort of tells me you don't know much about 9/11 itself at all. It's nothing personal, a lot of people believe the same way you do. But that doesn't mean it's not a problem. Too many people in this country at large pay ZERO attention to detail regarding these things...they just get a general 'idea' from everybody else and the tv. They could've gone completely without any form of evidence or 'commission' or whatever, and people would still claim it to be absolute truth we know everything about 9/11 and it's totally solved..based on the simple fact it was blamed solely on those brown crazies on the other side of the world and a total loyalty to believing our government wouldn't tell a lie. I'm not saying go believe in a bunch of alternative conspiracy theories. (i say alternative, because the official story is a conspiracy theory, regardless of how people hate that term). but at least look into the matter and see what you know and what you don't know. I don't claim to know exactly what happened, but I do know that there are many red flags and the investigation was a bunch of garbage.
it is, afterall, the lynchpin upon which our foreign (and domestic) policy hinges. it is important it be as solid as a rock before we start using it for a bunch of other shit. apparently, with how gullible the public is, I guess it doesn't matter too much.

[RealmofOpeth]

Unfortunately our choice pool of politicians doesn't reflect the common person in this country, meaning it's not gonna get any better!

Not, at least, until good, honest people start running in elections. Unfortunately, when that happens, the rich criminal crooks, who own the media, tell everyone that the good people are psychotic, evil, or just loopy (or all of the above)

you mean, like Ron Paul?

he was our chance, and of course, the American people don't give a ****/get brainwashed/suckered and blow it yet again...only to continue to piss and moan about sucky politicians if not otherwise thinking we're living in the land of oz and our dollars are worth their volume in gold.

[OrderOfSolve]

Alrighty friends! I am going to go to bed early tonight! Our primary is tomorrow! My wife & I are getting up early before the polls get busy and cast our vote for Hillary!..............g'nite & snus on!