Arizona passes law to pimp-slap illegals immegrants

[sgreger1]

with nearly 10 years in the horti/agriculture buisness, ive become close friends with many mexicana's. thats where i got my username. Apparently, timoteo is spanish for timothy and, thats what my boys call me (most the time) lol. i love those guys.

they are all legal and paid for there visa's. or paid and have gone through the naturalzation process to become US citizens. id hate to think there going to be pushed around and treated like animals if they ever go to arizona.

but im sure the problems are alot worse there in az. i am in south new jersey after all.

Legal citizens will not be affected by this. Remember, they must have a reasonable suspicion or probable cause, they would lose a fortune in court cases if they just started asking every brown person for papers. This is nothing more than when you have to show your drivers license to a cop when you get pulled over.

The media and the left is fearmongering this thing into something that it is not. I have never heard so much backlash for citizens wanting the laws to be followed.

[tom502]

The reason why I do not in any way believe this is "racial", even though the pro-crime liberal socialist/anachist left want you to believe it is, as well, as the fermenting this belief in their sheep, is because, Mexico borders the US, and main illegal alien/crime issue in the US is from Mexico/south of the border, so, of course, the main people involved will be hispanic, or Latino, or whatever the correct term is. But, if, let's say, we exchanged Mexico, and the "immigration/crime" issues, with the idea that we bordered Ukraine instead, and Ukrainians were jumping fences, going through tunnels, and we had millions of illegal Ukrainians here, they can't speak English, they are packing their car trunks full of them, and their mob was engaged in violents crime, drug running, shootings, kidnappings, killing border guards, etc., on government aid, etc. etc., I believe it would be the exact same thing/problems, but I do not believe masses of law abiding European Americans would riot in the streets wanting this new law stopped, and saying it was a violation of their "rights"(right to do what? commit crime?). It really, as it is, looks bad for the Hispanics, as it makes it look like they are somehow endorsing a crime culture, a lawlessness mentality, and it's being fueled by the anachist, left, socialist, no-borders movement. But, it is not racial at all, it is lawful, and whether it was Hispanics, or Ukrainians, it would be the same, except, for the most part, law abidng European Americans, do not approve of illegality and lawlessness, so the reaction would be different, but the problem would be the same, and the enactment of such a law would be the same.

[sgreger1]

Okay sorry to bring this up again, but I have been hearing so much bitching from everyone around me about this law, that I would like to settle this once and for all for any moron who think this is any way racist or profiling or a violation of civil rights or any of the above.


READ THE FARKING BILL BEFORE YOU CALL SOMETHING RACIST:

A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN, OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE MAY NOT SOLELY CONSIDER RACE, COLOR OR NATIONAL ORIGIN IN IMPLEMENTING THE REQUIREMENTS OF THIS SUBSECTION EXCEPT TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY THE UNITED STATES OR ARIZONA CONSTITUTION.

The law SPECIFICALLY says you may not just look at someones race and bother them.

Next, for the people who believe this is turning things into the soviet union, or the crowd who says "how will they know without racially profiling?":

B. FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE, WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c).

^---- OMG IT'S NAZI GERMANY ALL OVER AGAIN!

It says that if you come into any lawfull contact with a cop, such as a speding ticket, they will make a


Q1: Can I see your U.S. Drivers License or State issued ID?
A: I don't have one.

Q2: Can I see your passport?
A: I don't have one.

Q3: Can I see your Green Card/Work Permit?
A: I don't have one.


This establishes a reasonable suspicion, which allows a cop to proceed as he would with any other crime.


It has been federal law since the 1940's that any immigrant must have papers on their person while in the country. This law just allows the state to enfroce it since the federal government would not.


There is nothing racist here, the cops can't even use race to justify their reasonable suspicion. Regular citizens can just show their drivers license.
On top of that, Mexico is screaming about it now, saying it's a violation of civil rights etc etc, but their immigration law is twice as strict.


Now the morons in San Francisco are boycotting Arizona Iced Tea over this, even though it's made in New York.

STOP THE MADNESS, there is nothing big about this bill at all, it's just taking the existing law and replacing the words "federal"
with "state". Not racist, not soviet union, nothing of the sort. AND IT'S ALREADY WORKING! It's hasn't even come into effect yet, and AP is reporting that they are already leaving in droves (to neighboring states now) which has prompted several other states to propose similar legislation because it is so effective.


How could anyone have a problem with this law? You people don't mind being forced to buy a cadillac insurance plan but showing your drivers license if a cop stops you for speeding is communism? Wtf is going on in our country?

[lxskllr]

Legal citizens will not be affected by this. Remember, they must have a reasonable suspicion or probable cause, they would lose a fortune in court cases if they just started asking every brown person for papers. This is nothing more than when you have to show your drivers license to a cop when you get pulled over.

The media and the left is fearmongering this thing into something that it is not. I have never heard so much backlash for citizens wanting the laws to be followed.

Where's the big money awards from the cops pulling blacks over on the highways? I've spent A LOT of time on the roads, and it sure is funny that 95% of the people sitting on the guardrail are black or Hispanic. Either these pro runners are the dummest fsckers in the world, or the cops are abusing their power, and giving brown people more attention than they do white people...

I've seen your picture you know. You're white, just like all those rapists are. I don't think it's unreasonable to challange you to a DNA swab when you're hanging out where women congregate.... ;^)

[danielan]

I've seen your picture you know. You're white, just like all those rapists are. I don't think it's unreasonable to challange you to a DNA swab when you're hanging out where women congregate.... ;^)

We're not rapists, we're serial killers, get it straight.

[sgreger1]

Where's the big money awards from the cops pulling blacks over on the highways? I've spent A LOT of time on the roads, and it sure is funny that 95% of the people sitting on the guardrail are black or Hispanic. Either these pro runners are the dummest fsckers in the world, or the cops are abusing their power, and giving brown people more attention than they do white people...

I've seen your picture you know. You're white, just like all those rapists are. I don't think it's unreasonable to challange you to a DNA swab when you're hanging out where women congregate.... ;^)

First of all, everyone knows white people are serial killers and domestic terrorists, NOT rapists.


Secondly, I am a realist and understand how thing work, but that filters into any system. Should Obama not pass healthcare reform because some people may game the system?

If you disagree with what I wrote, state what part of the bill in any way encourages the things people are protesting about.


Keep it real, there is nothing racist about this. Since when is enforcing the law racist?

[danielan]

Here's an article that I think is a reasonable response to many of the sound-bites we're hearing in the news: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/29/opinion/29kobach.html

[f. bandersnatch]

Kris Kobach is a dick and he hates brown people in a way that would make any Kansan proud (no offense Darwin, if you read this).

Not that this really has anything to do with the bill, but that guy is a typical Aryan prick, and anything he says with relation to racially sensitive issues should be taken with a BIG grain of salt.

As far as this shitty immigration issue is concerned, I am going to go ahead and stick with my previous sentiments that it is damned sad it has to come to this.

[Darwin]

it is damned sad it has to come to this.

True but it should be remembered that, and everyone can cite examples of this, a national policy which collides with a severe local situation guarantees a pushback sooner or later. It is a lot later in Arizona, years and years later which is something to keep in mind as we criticize and carp about the dubious motives of that state legislature. If as reported 70 percent of Arizonan's support this new enforcement initiative, then Arizona's population, which is rather less than 70% anglo, means that a substantial percentage of hispanics support the measure. After all legal hispanic residents are likely to be more affected by the criminality of cross-border scofflaws and they are probably just as fed up as anyone else. This should pull the teeth of much of the strident cries of racism but of course it won't.

[whistlrr]

A lot of Hispanic people actually aren't brown. I've seen quite a few Hispanic/Latino people who actually look quite a bit like me (white, pale/dishpan hair, even a few who are blond).

The thing that's liable, I would think, to get people potentially unduly stopped and asked questions. I would suppose, is when people are overheard actually opening their mouths to speak...
Which granted, I think might be a bit of an unfair and 'racial profiling' issue if used incorrectly.. but we do have a problem ... I will just say this.. try being a poor/disabled American who goes for medicaid, dental care or anything else, and finding yourself pushed off entirely, no appointments, no hope in hell, because there's a roomful of people in the room already who well.. you have to really wonder at least to yourself, if they're really all Americans.
(its happened to me)
I don't think non-Americans should be getting priority over Americans for care in this country, and personally up close and personal, I see it happening, yes, even here, even "up north" in Michigan.

Anyway, back to Arizona and this situation,
By a stretch its possible I even could be stopped and queried where I to live in Arizona (I'm not Hispanic but for all my European background, I'm honestly about as non-descript in appearance, and (due to disability) I don't speak anything at all (I use a typing communication device when I do) but walking about on foot if they wanted to wonder about this mute and therefor possibly doubly 'iffy looking' person and query me.. yes, well, I do carry a wallet on me and it does have identification on it, and this would not be a problem, and I would not be offended, but that's just me

[tom502]

As I watch all this hype on the news, and all the agitators calling this racist, I have come to the conclusion, that the people who protest this law, are actually no-border proponents. And there are a LOT of them, and not just Hispanics, but the American socialists, and anachists, oppose ANY borders. They would oppose this law, and ANY law, that questions ones "right" to be ANYWHERE, because they do not believe in illegal immigrant, as a term as it is. They want NO borders, therefore they oppose this, they oppose border security, they oppose English only, they oppose showing ones papers. They have an agenda. They know how to manipulate the politicians, they know how to use the current RACE buzzword hype to bully their agendas. And their agenda is not secret, the LA RAZA(the race) racist hispanic bully group, wants to take over America from the European Americans. This is their no border agenda, you can easily see this by reading their own materials. So, it is racist, but not on the side of law, which is also upheld by lawful Hispanics, but those who oppose law, and foster a mentality of lawlessness, cartel-consciousness, welfare socialism, and take over America turning it into a lawless unsovereign hispanic occupied piece of land(can't call it a nation).

[danielan]

Kris Kobach is a dick and he hates brown people in a way that would make any Kansan proud.

Be that as it may, is there anything in the op-ed that you dispute? Or is this your basic drive-by ad hominem?

[sgreger1]

Tom, of course they aren't protesting the actual law, it would make no sense to protest this law. Why didn't they protest before? Why now? We started immegration reform in 1924 and we've had the arizona law on the federal level since the 1940's. Why complain now?

The proof I have of why these illegals are not actually seriouse in the "racist" angle, is because I don't see them protesting their own laws which are much harsher than this and specifically use racial profiling as an enforcement mechanism. Even more hillarious, is that an immegrant (legal or otherwise) in Mexico MAY NOT protest or fly foreign banners. We are the least racist country in probably the entire world.
Why are they not in their country protesting their government? Oh, yah, because it's not about racism or the law, it's about the fact that they want to continue coming here to work (which I understand) and get healthcare, send their kids to good schools etc. Hey, that's the American dream baby, i'm all for it, but you gotta do it legally so you can be part of the system and pay into it accordingly. Right now it's too hard to come here legally, so of course the average joe is just coming illegally. The mexicans are a simple and often times poor people, they don't want to wait 7 years filling out paperwork and spend thousands of dollars to come here when they can just walk across to Arizona (That's sure as hell what I would do). I get that.

Make it easier to come here legally. A legal person must be paid a decent wage. Illegals should be pushing for imegration reform, not this pro-illegal immegration thing, because they have turned themselves into an indentured servant class, working as surfs doing menial labor for slave wages. They should be coming here legally and expecting an American wage, and paying American taxes.



At the end of the day, I personally think the "right" thing to do to solve the immegration issue is to levy extremely heavy ( like $1m per person) fines on employers for hiring illegals. That way, no need to profile, no need to tie up the police force, the jobs just won't exist. It will enforce itself because companies don't want to lose money. I don't see why we have to pay a 300congressman $400,000 a year to come up with simple, reasonable ideas like this, yet we've been here for nearly 300 years and I don't see anything of the sort happening, just more politics as usual.

[danielan]

At the end of the day, I personally think the "right" thing to do to solve the immegration issue is to levy extremely heavy ( like $1m per person) fines on employers for hiring illegals. That way, no need to profile, no need to tie up the police force, the jobs just won't exist.

Yea, I don't know... Why would they leave again?

I'd rather be jobless in America then jobless in Mexico. It's not like they are quitting their high-paying corporate jobs in Mexico and moving here for the weather.

Besides, if you can't find a job, you can always turn to crime - and again, I'd rather be a criminal in America then Mexico...

Make it easier to come here legally.

Why? Do we really have a lack of people in this skill-range? Do our citizens in this skill-range need additional competition at the bottom rungs?

Maybe we should only allow people in who have advanced degrees. That seems more fair to me, both from a job competition perspective and from the perspective that our immigration policy should help America - not the rest of the world.

[sgreger1]

Yea, I don't know... Why would they leave again?

I'd rather be jobless in America then jobless in Mexico. It's not like they are quitting their high-paying corporate jobs in Mexico and moving here for the weather.

Besides, if you can't find a job, you can always turn to crime - and again, I'd rather be a criminal in America then Mexico...



Why? Do we really have a lack of people in this skill-range? Do our citizens in this skill-range need additional competition at the bottom rungs?

Maybe we should only allow people in who have advanced degrees. That seems more fair to me, both from a job competition perspective and from the perspective that our immigration policy should help America - not the rest of the world.

I totally agree with you. But I am also keeping it real. Immegration is like drugs, it can't be stopped. We need to make it easier for people with no criminal records who want to come here to work, and harder for the deadbeats.


But in the end American doesn't want to make America better, it wants to service the rest of the world. We have lost our national pride and American thinking, and have now become collectivists. So we now occupy our time worrying about how not to offend other countries and how to send millions more overseas when we're broke, how to send more jobs overseas to help the third would countries, while we have an effective 20% unemployment rate.