Arizona passes law to pimp-slap illegals immegrants

[sgreger1]

I have to say that some of this is not new.

Here in Michigan if you are driving a car you have to have a DL on you.
I think this is the same in Indiana and I suppose most states.

As far as walking about on foot and being required to present ID
I don't recall which it was (Michigan or Indiana) and I don't know if that law is still on the books, but at least one of them some 30 years or so ago had a 'vagrancy law' where when out walking about on foot you had to have both personal identification on you and a certain sum of money (I think it was something like $2.00) or you could be 'picked up for vagrancy.'

This new law does NOT allow police to stop you and ask for your ID when on foot. Only if you are involved ina crime and are being arrested or detained, in which case an ID would have already been required under current law. This new law just allows them to check your immegration status with the feds if you don't have ID.

Nothing nazi or intrusive about it.

[tom502]

In Nazi Germany, the Jews were not jumping fences and burrowing under tunnels to get in Germany.

[sgreger1]

"Arizona passes law to pimp-slap illegals immigrants"

Its all fun and games till it starts to effect AMERICAN liberties. If anyone thinks this wont effect Americans(negatively) at some point, I want to live in your dreamland. I understand the problems associated with illegal immigration but this isn't going to help or have the effect people want. People are pissed off and want retribution and that fine, but don't end up shooting yourself in the foot or caging yourself in.

o, so you think you can tell Heaven from Hell,
blue skies from pain.
Can you tell a green field from a cold steel rail?
A smile from a veil?
Do you think you can tell?
And did they get you to trade your heroes for ghosts?
Hot ashes for trees?
Hot air for a cool breeze?
Cold comfort for change?
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage?

Please explain what AMERICAN liberties you feel you are losing by having to show your drivers license to a cop if you are involved in a crime or traffic violation.

What about DUI checkpoints? They don't even require any kind of probable cause or reasonable suspicion. No protests over that.

If your legal and you dont have your ID on you, it's just like it always has been you give them your name and DOB and they look you up in the system.

How. Please SOMEONE tell me how showing ID to a cop if arrested is a loss of liberties? Give me a break.

[tom502]

Immigrants are supposed to carry their green card on them at all times.

Obama said "immigrants" need to learn English, and have a National ID. No borders lawlessness advocated would oppose this too.

[lxskllr]

Please explain what AMERICAN liberties you feel you are losing by having to show your drivers license to a cop if you are involved in a crime or traffic violation.

What about DUI checkpoints? They don't even require any kind of probable cause or reasonable suspicion. No protests over that.

If your legal and you dont have your ID on you, it's just like it always has been you give them your name and DOB and they look you up in the system.

How. Please SOMEONE tell me how showing ID to a cop if arrested is a loss of liberties? Give me a break.

You've obviously never been profiled. You drive around with a "Fsck Me" sign on your back for a couple years, and then come back and tell me what you think of this law ;^)

Btw, I /have/ driven with that "Fsck Me" sign, and the experience has largely shaped what I think of this country, and the people who work for it ;^)

[sgreger1]

You've obviously never been profiled. You drive around with a "Fsck Me" sign on your back for a couple years, and then come back and tell me what you think of this law ;^)

Btw, I /have/ driven with that "Fsck Me" sign, and the experience has largely shaped what I think of this country, and the people who work for it ;^)

So what LX, we stop making laws now? HOW IS SHOWING YOUR DRIVERS LICENSE A F*CK YOU SIGN?

If you could fix the economy and get the unemployed employed again, but every criminal would have to show their ID in return, WOULD YOU OPPOSE THAT?


Stop making this about race or about civil liberties or any other crap. NONE OF THAT EXISTS. If they use race they CANNOT DEPORT YOU because it is invalid now since this new law REDUCES profiling by making it illegal to question identity based on race. They even clarified


Obama himself said he wanted this in his SOTU speech. Is he a racist? a few words in the bill so that it specifically wouldn't lead to profiling, because if mass profiling started happening, it would be unconstitutional as applied, even though the bill itself is not unconstitutional.

[timholian]

The funny thing about law is it is always being debated. What the law means, hell what words in the law means. I can't pretend to have read this law and I won't, but what I did do is was watch Arizona's governor explain it through a press conference.

Just showing your ID if you are in violation of the law is fine and is the norm here in Texas, but this isn't how the governor presented it to me and sounds like she didn't do a very good job presenting it that way to a lot of people.

Another problem I have with this bill is the incarceration.
So, they took yer gebbs.... -$
They use your healthcare.... -$
You put them in jail for 2 years.... -$$$

Can we not stop throwing money down the hole?

[lxskllr]

So what LX, we stop making laws now? HOW IS SHOWING YOUR DRIVERS LICENSE A F*CK YOU SIGN?

If you could fix the economy and get the unemployed employed again, but every criminal would have to show their ID in return, WOULD YOU OPPOSE THAT?


Stop making this about race or about civil liberties or any other crap. NONE OF THAT EXISTS. If they use race they CANNOT DEPORT YOU because it is invalid now since this new law REDUCES profiling by making it illegal to question identity based on race.


Obama himself said he wanted this in his SOTU speech. Is he a racist?

Where the hell do you get your crap from? First politicians always lie, and can't be trusted UNLESS they happen to agree with your view, then it's ok. Have I got that right? So Obama's wrong/dishonest about everything but the immigration law. That's an awefully small niche he's put himself in. A Fsck You sign, is when you get pulled over for no other reason than pulling you over. It's when you see a cop in your rearview mirror, and you wonder if they're gonna use lube this time or not. I'm well aware of what this law means. I don't think you are.

Here's a quote you see a lot of right wingers attach themselves to, but only when it agrees with them...

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

[sgreger1]

The funny thing about law is it is always being debated. What the law means, hell what words in the law means. I can't pretend to have read this law and I won't, but what I did do is was watch Arizona's governor explain it through a press conference.

Just showing your ID if you are in violation of the law is fine and is the norm here in Texas, but this isn't how the governor presented it to me and sounds like she didn't do a very good job presenting it that way to a lot of people.

Another problem I have with this bill is the incarceration.
So, they took yer gebbs.... -$
They use your healthcare.... -$
You put them in jail for 2 years.... -$$$

Can we not stop throwing money down the hole?

The immigration problem is what's costing money. Getting them out will be great 10 years down the road here.

Tell me what sounds racist about this, from the bill:

"The attorney general or county attorney shall not investigate complaints that are based on race, color or national origin." <-- obviously this is secret code for profiling.


B. FOR ANY LAWFUL STOP, DETENTION OR ARREST MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE, WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c).




So even if cops did try and abuse it and profile, IT WOULD GET THROWN OUT IN COURT. I.e. no profiling, no F*ck you sign on your back, no anything.


And best of all, it puts the heat on employers, like everyone is always saying they want! What possible outrage could be justified over this?

[timholian]

Well, it sounds like you should explain it to the governor of Arizona because she clearly signed something she didn't understand.
Funny things about courts.... they decide things. Pretending to know how someone will act or decide can be a tricky thing.

[sgreger1]

Where the hell do you get your crap from? First politicians always lie, and can't be trusted UNLESS they happen to agree with your view, then it's ok. Have I got that right? So Obama's wrong/dishonest about everything but the immigration law. That's an awefully small niche he's put himself in. A Fsck You sign, is when you get pulled over for no other reason than pulling you over. It's when you see a cop in your rearview mirror, and you wonder if they're gonna use lube this time or not. I'm well aware of what this law means. I don't think you are.

Here's a quote you see a lot of right wingers attach themselves to, but only when it agrees with them...

Politicians are corrupt. But I agree with this law. I take every issue as I see it, and I see this as being legit, someone is finally dealing with the illegal immigration problem.


"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

I agree with that, please explain how that contradicts whats happening here? Please explain how anyone is giving up any amount of perceived liberty in return for safety? Only the nutters who believe you shouldn't have to have a drivers license to drive would think this is infringing on their liberties. Showing a cop your ID when you get in trouble is NOT a loss of liberties, if so then we haven't had liberties for 100 years.

[sgreger1]

Well, it sounds like you should explain it to the governor of Arizona because she clearly signed something she didn't understand.
Funny things about courts.... they decide things. Pretending to know how someone will act or decide can be a tricky thing.

The AZ governor said the same things I am saying. It will get rid of the illegals and help fix their economy and lower their crime rate. Second highest kidnapping rate IN THE WORLD, something must be done, and they did.

The court will decide this, and it will be hard to keep this a law with this much money and an entire foreign and domestic government against it (Mexico and dem controlled US gov).

But now other states are considering it to. People are finally standing up.


Any democrat who doesn't agree with this law is not a democrat. Your president endorsed this in his SOTU speech. He wants tougher borders, an ID system in place to verify employment etc. This is not some radical right wing concept that we should enforce the borders.



& LX, of course I think Obama is lying. i don't believe for a second he actually wants to enforce immigration, that is a big part of the voter base here, bad idea to piss them off. But Arizona is taking the plunge. They will all lose re-election but the point will have been made. It's time to fix the country, and this is the first thing that must be done. In places with 20% unemployment, the "jobs americans won't do" idea is getting thrown out the window.

[lxskllr]

I agree with that, please explain how that contradicts whats happening here? Please explain how anyone is giving up any amount of perceived liberty and giving it up for safety? Only the nutters who believe you shouldn't have to have a drivers license to drive would think this is infringing on their liberties. Showing a cop your ID when you get in trouble is NOT a loss of liberties, if so then we haven't had liberties for 100 years.

Because it doesn't matter what's written in the law. What this law does is gives carte blanc to the cops to try to round up brown people. It's an implicit demand to find illegals through any method possible. This PARTICULAR law doesn't affect me, but I know I wouldn't want to be a Hispanic CITIZEN in Arizona right now. They're gonna get pulled over a lot more, and searched for no real reason other than being brown.

[sgreger1]

Because it doesn't matter what's written in the law. What this law does is gives carte blanc to the cops to try to round up brown people. It's an implicit demand to find illegals through any method possible. This PARTICULAR law doesn't affect me, but I know I wouldn't want to be a Hispanic CITIZEN in Arizona right now. They're gonna get pulled over a lot more, and searched for no real reason other than being brown.

This is as bad as saying Obama is trying to take our guns. It's a fantasy of what you perceive will happen, absent of any actual evidence that that is the case. All we can do is write laws to the best of our ability. This law meets that standard. You say thing like "the law gives carte blanche to round up brown people by any means necessary", Lx, I would expect better from you, the law IN NO WAY allows that. I defy someone to show me what part of the law says cops now have carte blanche to round up brown people by any means necessary.

Legals approve of this, citizens approve of this. There is profiling in SO MANY other laws, should we al be out protesting them constantly and repealing them? More black people get pulled over in the ghetto, should we repeal the speeding law for black people because they MAY be profiled? The logic behind that mindset it lacking.


I know everyone thinks this will hurt "brown" people, but that is not fair, it will ONLY hurt illegals. If I were a legal citizen and took all the time to come here and then 500,000 people cut in line and came to my town offering work for cheap, I would be MORE THAN HAPPY to show my ID when I get pulled over (WHICH YOU ALREADY HAVE TO DO) in order to get the jobs I want. I would support a bill, were I to be a legal immigrant, that favors employing me over my illegal counterpart.

This will increase the opportunity for success for every legal immigrant, an extremely American concept.

[tom502]

I don't know, but it seems to me, the only people who oppose this, are no borders advocates, or believe hispanics should exempt from national laws.

The new law will not just have cops harrassing hispanics, and rounding them up on a whim, even if they wanted to, they know they can't, because then they would get sued, and it would not be worth the trouble.

The crux of this law, is really just a state enforcing a federal law, the feds won't enforce, which requires people to show their documents if they are stopped for another reason, and there is suspicion.

I believe if such a legal stop was made, and where the person was Mexican, or Ukranian, the same would be applied.

I believe there is a LARGE no borders movement, endorsed by the ultra left Dems, socialists and anarchists, and these people are protesting the law, and many Dems want blanket amnesty to get these people as Dem voters.