Arizona passes law to pimp-slap illegals immegrants

[lxskllr]

This is as bad as saying Obama is trying to take our guns. It's a fantasy of what you perceive will happen, absent of any actual evidence that that is the case. All we can do is write laws to the best of our ability. This law meets that standard. You say thing like "the law gives carte blanche to round up brown people by any means necessary", Lx, I would expect better from you, the law IN NO WAY allows that. I defy someone to show me what part of the law says cops now have carte blanche to round up brown people by any means necessary.

Legals approve of this, citizens approve of this. There is profiling in SO MANY other laws, should we al be out protesting them constantly and repealing them? More black people get pulled over in the ghetto, should we repeal the speeding law for black people because they MAY be profiled? The logic behind that mindset it lacking.


I know everyone thinks this will hurt "brown" people, but that is not fair, it will ONLY hurt illegals. If I were a legal citizen and took all the time to come here and then 500,000 people cut in line and came to my town offering work for cheap, I would be MORE THAN HAPPY to show my ID when I get pulled over (WHICH YOU ALREADY HAVE TO DO) in order to get the jobs I want. I would support a bill, were I to be a legal immigrant, that favors employing me over my illegal counterpart.

This will increase the opportunity for success for every legal immigrant, an extremely American concept.

So you don't have a problem getting pulled over for no other reason than to check you out? I sure as hell do, and it's happened to me based on other laws that were improperly enforced. There's no reason for this law to exist. It's a duplicate of what's already established. The only reason for it is to let the thugs know that their back's covered, and civil rights violations won't be pursued too aggressively.

[tom502]

I think it kinda telling, how they pick May Day to have their mass riots against US law.

[f. bandersnatch]

If all this bill does is require cops to check ids during a traffic stop, then it wouldn't have made it into law because that is already procedure.

What is actually does is extend the state law enforcement agencies authority and require that they enforce federal law. I think that we are all arguing about the wrong thing on this one. The "nanny state" that so many right wingers ardently preach against just became more of a reality. State and federal law enforcement agencies enforcing the same laws is as close to hermetic social control as our government has gotten.

This is not to say that I disagree with the law. I have said several times that I think it is a conceivable response to an issue that is spiraling out of control because it has been handled poorly for a long time. I wish we would have had more foresight on the issue, but that is neither here nor there.

[wa3zrm]

[sgreger1]

So you don't have a problem getting pulled over for no other reason than to check you out?

We've all been pulled over for some BS reason before, it doesn't mean america is racist against you, it's just that cops have bias. For example, if they keep seeing young kids in hoodies committing crimes, they become more suspicious of them. Same thing with illegals since 99.9% of illegal drug traffickers etc seem to be of hispanic origin, it becomes engrained that the hispanics require more attention since they appear to be the ones breaking the vast majority of the laws. Is this fair? Absolutely not. But it is human nature and you cannot legislate against it. It doesn't mean we shouldn't address the issue that there are over 500,000 illegals sucking up money, jobs, prison beds, and trafficking drugs and smuggling humans in your state.

I will say it again, they may not just pull you over just to check your papers, but if that is what you wish to believe than I can not convince you otherwise.

This just requires that anyone without proper ID be ran through the federal immigration database, and it cracks down on employers. Seems reasonable to me considering there is a drug war in their area that makes the place look like afghanistan as of late. But that's just me.

[sgreger1]

If all this bill does is require cops to check ids during a traffic stop, then it wouldn't have made it into law because that is already procedure.

What is actually does is extend the state law enforcement agencies authority and require that they enforce federal law. I think that we are all arguing about the wrong thing on this one. The "nanny state" that so many right wingers ardently preach against just became more of a reality. State and federal law enforcement agencies enforcing the same laws is as close to hermetic social control as our government has gotten.

This is not to say that I disagree with the law. I have said several times that I think it is a conceivable response to an issue that is spiraling out of control because it has been handled poorly for a long time. I wish we would have had more foresight on the issue, but that is neither here nor there.

Bsnatch, (<-- lol), in my opinion this law was only meant to be the "tempest in the teapot", to bring the issue to the forefront. You are right, they kind of took a bunch of existing laws an re-passed them with minor differences such as the state can force the feds to enforce immigration, and cracks down on employers more. It worked as it already has illegals leaving in droves, and the more people protest it and the more news time it gets, the better. This type of coverage and massive support from America has already made several other states consider it, and it's only been a week. Whether this sticks or not, they have accomplished their goal. Everyone is fighting useless wars overseas and spending money to save endangered species etc, meanwhile their cities are burning and someone had to bring attention to it.

[sgreger1]

Please, no discrimination. Our laws are racist for wanting to get these people out of here. /s

[sgreger1]

Ive lived with this trash around me my whole life. Domestic terrorists like this are what our armies should be fighting. In LA it's MS-13 and 18th street. I don't even care as much about the worker types as I do about these low life gang members. Now when they are stopped in Arizona they will be dealt with accordingly. No longer can they hide under the blanket of our ill enforced laws. These people PROFILE THEMSELVES. If they could just get the mexican mob and gangsters out, I say give amnesty to everyone else who's here that can prove they have a job. It is not hard to tell who these people are, do the people below establish "reasonable suspicion" to you?

[tom502]

These are just oppressed brown people forced into that life by the evil greedy whites.

[sgreger1]

These are just oppressed brown people forced into that life by the evil greedy whites.

Of course Tom, remember when whites made the dinosaurs extinct? We've been at it for millenia.

Really if these people spent as much time protesting their government as they do ours, they could probably have a better economy of their own.

I think we need a working class, like here in CA our agro business need farm hands. I admit, whites or blacks will NOT do these jobs, which is why we need a guest worker program, or a seasonal guest worker program at least. I am not anti-immegration or anti-immegrants by any means. I am half puerto rican, and although puerto rico is part of the US, they don't really consider themselves Americans in the same way. I know that just in my parents lifetime there was still some level of segregation and oppresion of minorities. These are bruises that we caused that will take a long time to heal. The fact that we have a black president at the same time as people like civil rights activist Mrs. height (who died recently) is still alive is amazing. We're tlaking from Rosa Park's to black president in a generation. That is a big step. So I get what LX and the illegals are saying about minorities as a lot of it is based in fact, but you can't just slap the race card on everything you don't like.

If you don't want to show your drivers license, too bad. Other countries do WAY harsher things to enforce their laws, we are very reasonable people here in America, and because of our constant reasonableness people take advantage of us by using the race card for everything. I don't feel it's racist that I show ID when I get stopped by a cop, so no one else should either, it's happening to whites to. The problem we are trying to eliminate here is of epidemic proportions, really this is a cause larger than the wars in iraq and afghanistan. Fighting this problem could have real tangible benefits for America and isn't just a giant money sink. If we can curb illegal immigration and make it easier to legally immigrate, our border states would be a lot better off, and this bill starts that, so i support it 100%.

[sgreger1]

Then this weekend the peaceful pro-immigration protestors started a riot in Santa Cruz right outside of where I work.

An Associated Press report states that eighteen businesses were damaged as pro-immigrants rights activists engaged in violent riots, spraying graffiti, smashing windows, setting fire to shop fronts, and causing damage to a cost of up to $100,000 dollars.

They were down here protesting big business by destroying our local businesses (leaving the corporations on the same street untouched, ironically), and also protesting the Arizona immigration thing.

But surely the tea party, which to date has not acted this way, are the domestic terrorists who the DHS needs to be watching closely.

EDIT: The morons burned a cafe, then went next door and broke out all of the glass from a jewelry store AND DIDN'T EVEN LOOT ANY OF THE JEWELRY.

Who goes to a riot, breaks into a jewelry store, and doesn't even steal anything? Amateurs man.

[timholian]

I like how people seem to forget that the first "White" people here in American, were illegal, and when the natives tried to fight back they were slaughtered and forced to live on little patches of what was THEIR land. Its must be nice to have a sense of entitlement to something that wasn't yours to begin with. And we forget that Cali and Texas was the property of Mexico until we "conquered" them.
I am not saying there shouldn't be border patrol or even laws pertaining to entering the country, lets just take a second to reflect how we got here. Entitlement is nice but can be blinding.(Goes for both sides of this argument.)

[tom502]

Well, it's totally different, way back when, it was normal to conquer lands. Natives did it too. But now, we have an established nation, a government, and laws. To me, this whole "immigrant" thing, is not about legal immigrants who truly love American and want to be a citizen, and go through the process and become a legal American citizen, which everyone embraces and approves up, the problem here is illegal aliens, tresspasser, who are no more than criminals, and theives, who hate America, and just want to steal from it, as well as spit in the faces of the legal immigrants who abide by the process and law. It's sick how these Red-Anachists and far left socialists exploit "brown" people, by giving praise to crime and cartel, and painting an image of Hispanics that they all love lawlessness. Yes, it seems many do, but the ones that want to be true citizens and do/did the right thing should oppose these cartel lovers, and say they support lawfull citizenship, and not blanket amnesty and free welfare.

[danielan]

I like how people seem to forget that the first "White" people here in American, were illegal, and when the natives tried to fight back they were slaughtered and forced to live on little patches of what was THEIR land.

Sure, but how far back do you go? The "natives" immigrated (well, hiked across the Bering Straits) from what is now Russia. Does that mean Russia has a more legitimate claim then us?

And we forget that Cali and Texas was the property of Mexico until we "conquered" them.

How's that? Why is Mexico's previous imperialistic claim any more legitimate then ours? By your argument, Mexico and the US were arguing over land the Russians rightfully own.

[sgreger1]

I like how people seem to forget that the first "White" people here in American, were illegal, and when the natives tried to fight back they were slaughtered and forced to live on little patches of what was THEIR land. Its must be nice to have a sense of entitlement to something that wasn't yours to begin with. And we forget that Cali and Texas was the property of Mexico until we "conquered" them.
I am not saying there shouldn't be border patrol or even laws pertaining to entering the country, lets just take a second to reflect how we got here. Entitlement is nice but can be blinding.(Goes for both sides of this argument.)

Tim, are you unaware of what history is? If so you should check it out. All current nations, at some point, belonged to someone else. At some point an empire came and conquered the land and called it their own. This is how things work. We immegrated here and militarily took over the land, and later took over or bought part of Mexico's land. That means it's ours. It's how they orriginally got Texas and it's how we took it from them. If they would like a rehash, they are more than welcome to try and take it back militarily.

Land is only "owned" by those who exercise power over it and have conquered it's inhabitants.

Secondly, we all came here as immegrants before America was a country. In 1924 the influx of immegrants was becoming too much for our system to handle, so we started putting quotas and restrictions on it. As of 1940, it was the law that anyone who came here from another country was required by federal law to have their papers on their person, and must submit them if questioned for any reason in regards to their immegration status.


We were all immegrants, and no one has a problem with immegrants that i've heard of, even on the farthest of the far right. Illegal immegration however is what the problem is. People living in the system and drawing from it, while not paying into it. This poses an economic problem.


I'm not even tottaly against the EU style model where we have no borders, as in where workers can move freely, thus enlarging the labor market and filling "the jobs americans won't do." However, just like in the EU, while you may move about freely and work where you please, it does not make you a legal citizen in America. You are allowed to work, but you are not a citizen and therefore not entitled to any benefits that come along with being a citizen. We need seasonal workers etc, and I feel mexico has the perfect market for that, but what pisses me off is obtaining welfare and other money intense benefits while not paying into the system.