Possible false flag attack?

[sgreger1]

You can find equally, if not worse scenarios in the US. I don't believe most of the anti-DPRK war propaganda.

Tom, you are just talking out of your ass. Our homeless here live better than regular people in other countries. NOWHERE in the united states do you find the government seezing everyones money and mandating they only have a maximum of 40$, nowhere do you see the mass starvation and poverty exhibited in N Korea. EVERY SINGLE person who has either been a journalist in N Korea or a N Korea citizen who escaped ALL SAY THE SAME THING. They torture people who try to escape to china but get sent back. They live in a 1984 style 24/7 propaganda matrix where the only info allowed is state sponsored info and there is no free speech.

Please, Tom, name one place, even if it's only 1 square foot of property, in the united states that is anything like N Korea. I defy you to find a single city or town that has it worse off than any part of N Korea.




DPRK:

Life expectancy in North Korea is 63.8 years, a 170th place in the world, according to 2009 estimates.[120]

Among other health problems, many North Korean citizens suffer from the after effects of malnutrition, caused by famines related to the failure of its food distribution program and military first policy. A 1998 United Nations (UN) World Food Program report revealed that 60% of children suffered from malnutrition, and 16% were acutely malnourished.

Multiple international human rights organizations, including Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch, accuse North Korea of having one of the worst human rights records of any nation.[147] North Koreans have been referred to as "some of the world's most brutalized people" by Human Rights Watch, due to the severe restrictions placed on their political and economic freedoms

GULAGS:

North Korean defectors have testified to the existence of prison and detention camps with an estimated 150,000 to 200,000 inmates (about 0.85% of the population), and have reported torture, starvation, rape, murder, medical experimentation, forced labour, and forced abortions.[149] Convicted political prisoners and their families are sent to these camps, where they are prohibited from marrying, required to grow their own food, and cut off from external communication (which was previously allowed).[150]


MEDIA:

The media of North Korea is one of the most strictly controlled in the world. As a result, information is tightly controlled both into and out of North Korea. The North Korean constitution provides for freedom of speech and the press; however, the government prohibits the exercise of these rights in practice.

Only news that favors the regime is permitted, while news that covers the economic and political problems in the country, or criticisms of the regime from abroad, is not allowed

The only thing N Korea has going for it is that it's one of the most literate countries in the world, with an average literacy rate of 99%. But while literacy is high, their education is terrible, most not even understanding the most basic of concepts. There is even widespread belief that Kim-il Sung "created the world", and Kim Jong-il can "control the weather".[153]



EDIT: Plus, they have that lame mandatory state-wide uniform dress code where everyone has to look the same. And no cell phones (were made illegal again in 04)!

The book 1984 is literally a word for word description of North Korea, in every single way.

[tom502]

[Roo]

^ that's called a national holiday upon which it is illegal to not attend if you are nominated to participate in the goose-stepping parade through Pyongyang. It is also illegal to not display a picture of the Great Leader in your home. You like to talk about propaganda? Dig a little deeper into what the Dear Leader would have his countrymen believe. And "false flag"? The USA is blamed for everything down to a baby's shitty diapers, and such propaganda is used on a daily basis to encite fury and anger toward the US. Tom loves it when we debate the most common sense shit with him. I wrote that out of love for you Tom. XOXO, Roo

[sgreger1]

Like Roo said, see how they are all lined up in ranks, dress-right-dress? Crowds don't just arrange themselves into ranks like that. N Korea even created an entire city that was completely fake and made it the most beautiful city, made sure everyone in it was dressed perfect and acted perfect and the whole thing was used as nothing more than a giant hollywood soundstage so they could take pictures and show the world how great N Korea is. But it was all fake, the country is trash.

[Roo]

[bipolarbear1968]

I'll give you this one, Tom. After June 29th, you could probably still ship/sell snuff in NK. (lol)

[danielan]

Tom loves it when we debate the most common sense shit with him

I have this suspicion that Tom is really the most "normal" person on here. Probably a CPA. But he likes to screw with us.

It's great having someone for the other side of the conversation.

[LaZeR]

I'll give you this one, Tom. After June 29th, you could probably still ship/sell snuff in NK. (lol)

[sgreger1]

Yah, the sad part is I am almost positive you could still order snus post -PACT in the DPRK. Well, except for the no internet, no calls outside of the country thing, but other than that.

[tom502]

Maybe they make their own?
I'm an idealist, more so than a realist, I guess, in many ways. I'm also an artist, I like imagery and aesthetics. Granted, like all nations, I am sure DPRK has it's issues, though I do believe we have an endless barrage of war propaganda against them, I still like their idealism, aesthetics, their flags, statues, parades, same with the Nazis and Stalinist USSR, it just fascinates me.

Apart from that, I really do think this ship sinking is looking like a false flag attack, propagated by the US/ROK, and the pictures of the, or a, torpedo look old and corroded, as if they found it off the ocean floor years ago. Now, if China comes to the conclusion this was a false flag attack, this might get very interesting.

[sgreger1]

Maybe they make their own?
I'm an idealist, more so than a realist, I guess, in many ways. I'm also an artist, I like imagery and aesthetics. Granted, like all nations, I am sure DPRK has it's issues, though I do believe we have an endless barrage of war propaganda against them, I still like their idealism, aesthetics, their flags, statues, parades, same with the Nazis and Stalinist USSR, it just fascinates me.

Apart from that, I really do think this ship sinking is looking like a false flag attack, propagated by the US/ROK, and the pictures of the, or a, torpedo look old and corroded, as if they found it off the ocean floor years ago. Now, if China comes to the conclusion this was a false flag attack, this might get very interesting.

Whoever designed the NAZI flag/uniforms etc needs to have a job in Washington, their stuff was so cool. How come, just like in comic books, the evil supervillian states always have the cool looking uniforms and shit? Why can't we have that?


And Tom, all the asthetics of those people standing in a crowd like that looks great from a helicopter, but if you ever have to be the one standing there in rank and file for 15 hours a day, you will hate yourself. When Bush came to Ft Bragg for our division inspection (where I got to meet him face to face) we had to stop in a big ass group of 36,000 soldiers for an entire day, no moving, no talking. It was BRUTAL. We had dudes passing out left and right because of either heat exhaustion or from locking their knees for too long. I never want to stand in a formation like that again just to be paraded around. 36,000 people all arranegd neatly looks very cool, but being in the formation is torture of the highest level.

[truthwolf1]

Whoever designed the NAZI flag/uniforms etc needs to have a job in Washington, their stuff was so cool. How come, just like in comic books, the evil supervillian states always have the cool looking uniforms and shit? Why can't we have that?


And Tom, all the asthetics of those people standing in a crowd like that looks great from a helicopter, but if you ever have to be the one standing there in rank and file for 15 hours a day, you will hate yourself. When Bush came to Ft Bragg for our division inspection (where I got to meet him face to face) we had to stop in a big ass group of 36,000 soldiers for an entire day, no moving, no talking. It was BRUTAL. We had dudes passing out left and right because of either heat exhaustion or from locking their knees for too long. I never want to stand in a formation like that again just to be paraded around. 36,000 people all arranegd neatly looks very cool, but being in the formation is torture of the highest level.

I had to stand like that with a flag in the Boy Scouts and hated every minute of it. That was probably the start of my rebellion with anything organized. These rallies are extremely cool to look at though. This is that Hitler picture with very fitting music.

[sgreger1]

I had to stand like that with a flag in the Boy Scouts and hated every minute of it. That was probably the start of my rebellion with anything organized. These rallies are extremely cool to look at though. This is that Hitler picture with very fitting music.

Lol, if I ever assmebled and anti-establishment militia, to join you would have to stand at the position of attention bearing a flag or rifle in the present arms position for 10 hours. By the end of that you will hate everything that is organized anything or authority of any type lol. I swear, theres something about standing still for extended periods of time that just torments my ADD ridden brain.

[GENERAL BILLY]

Tom, you are just talking out of your ass. Our homeless here live better than regular people in other countries. NOWHERE in the united states do you find the government seezing everyones money and mandating they only have a maximum of 40$, nowhere do you see the mass starvation and poverty exhibited in N Korea. EVERY SINGLE person who has either been a journalist in N Korea or a N Korea citizen who escaped ALL SAY THE SAME THING. They torture people who try to escape to china but get sent back. They live in a 1984 style 24/7 propaganda matrix where the only info allowed is state sponsored info and there is no free speech.

Please, Tom, name one place, even if it's only 1 square foot of property, in the united states that is anything like N Korea. I defy you to find a single city or town that has it worse off than any part of N Korea.




DPRK:

Life expectancy in North Korea is 63.8 years, a 170th place in the world, according to 2009 estimates.[120]

Among other health problems, many North Korean citizens suffer from the after effects of malnutrition, caused by famines related to the failure of its food distribution program and military first policy. A 1998 United Nations (UN) World Food Program report revealed that 60% of children suffered from malnutrition, and 16% were acutely malnourished.

Multiple international human rights organizations, including Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch, accuse North Korea of having one of the worst human rights records of any nation.[147] North Koreans have been referred to as "some of the world's most brutalized people" by Human Rights Watch, due to the severe restrictions placed on their political and economic freedoms

GULAGS:

North Korean defectors have testified to the existence of prison and detention camps with an estimated 150,000 to 200,000 inmates (about 0.85% of the population), and have reported torture, starvation, rape, murder, medical experimentation, forced labour, and forced abortions.[149] Convicted political prisoners and their families are sent to these camps, where they are prohibited from marrying, required to grow their own food, and cut off from external communication (which was previously allowed).[150]


MEDIA:

The media of North Korea is one of the most strictly controlled in the world. As a result, information is tightly controlled both into and out of North Korea. The North Korean constitution provides for freedom of speech and the press; however, the government prohibits the exercise of these rights in practice.

Only news that favors the regime is permitted, while news that covers the economic and political problems in the country, or criticisms of the regime from abroad, is not allowed

The only thing N Korea has going for it is that it's one of the most literate countries in the world, with an average literacy rate of 99%. But while literacy is high, their education is terrible, most not even understanding the most basic of concepts. There is even widespread belief that Kim-il Sung "created the world", and Kim Jong-il can "control the weather".[153]



EDIT: Plus, they have that lame mandatory state-wide uniform dress code where everyone has to look the same. And no cell phones (were made illegal again in 04)!

The book 1984 is literally a word for word description of North Korea, in every single way.

By the way, this is what I meant when I said 'Dude..' earlier.

[tom502]

NKorea accuses South of faking warship sinking


Email this Story

May 28, 1:33 PM (ET)

By KELLY OLSEN and SANGWON YOON





SEOUL, South Korea (AP) - North Korea's most powerful state organ said Friday that South Korea faked the sinking of one of its own warships and warned that the Korean peninsula was edging ever closer to war.

Pyongyang has made similar statements through state media since a multinational probe said last week that a torpedo fired by a North Korean submarine downed the vessel, killing 46 sailors in the worst attack on the South Korean military since the Korean War.

This time, though, the comments were delivered at an extremely rare press conference in the North Korean capital presided over by a uniformed official with the secretive country's National Defense Commission, which is headed by leader Kim Jong Il.

North Korea has denied any responsibility and warned that retaliation or punishment for the sinking would mean armed conflict. So far, it has issued various threats, including one to cut off South Korean access to a joint industrial zone in the North and wage "all-out war."

South Korea's military has reported no unusual moves by the North's troops.

"The South Korean puppet regime's faked sinking of the Cheonan has created a very serious situation on the Korean peninsula, pushing it towards the brink of war," Maj. Gen. Pak Rim Su, director of the commission's policy department, said at the press conference, according to broadcaster APTN.

A number of people attended, including some foreigners who may have been Pyongyang-based diplomats, footage showed. A uniformed foreign military officer could be seen watching the proceedings, which were aired in full on state television.

Tensions have soared further since South Korea laid out Monday a series of punitive measures and pledged to haul Pyongyang before the U.N. Security Council. The steps include slashing trade, resuming anti-North Korean propaganda broadcasts across the border and launching large-scale naval exercises off the western coast.

"These anti-North Korean confrontations are an open declaration of war against us and an extraordinarily criminal act that pushes inter-Korean relations into a state of war," Pak said.

Separately, North Korea's Foreign Ministry issued a statement criticizing the U.S. for urging that the sinking be taken up by the Security Council.

The ministry also blasted U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, who made remarks critical of North Korea during a trip to the region that ended with a stop in Seoul on Wednesday, calling her comments "a spate of sheer lies" in the statement carried by the official Korean Central News Agency.

China has taken a cautious position amid moves by South Korea, the U.S. and Japan to condemn Pyongyang, its neighbor and traditional ally. Backing by Beijing, a veto-wielding permanent Security Council member, would be key to any bid to condemn or sanction North Korea.

Japan, which already bans trade with the North, slapped new sanctions on the country Friday, saying it will reduce the amount of money that can be sent there without being reported to the Japanese government. Tokyo also said it will slash the amount of cash travelers can take into North Korea - an apparent bid to target funds funneled to the North by ethnic Koreans in Japan.

The South Korean government quoted visiting Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao as saying Friday during talks with South Korean President Lee Myung-bak that his country would "defend no one" responsible for the sinking - once Beijing is satisfied who it was.

Wen's comments could not be independently confirmed. China's official Xinhua News Agency made no mention of a pledge not to defend those responsible in its report on the meeting.

However, Xinhua did quote Wen as saying China would make a judgment on the cause of the incident in an "objective and fair manner" and "take its stance on the basis of facts concerning the sinking of a South Korean warship."

China "takes serious note of the results of a joint investigation by South Korea and other countries, as well as the reactions of all parties," he said.

Wen's remarks appear to show China is sensitive to South Korean anger over the sinking and rising criticism of Beijing's reluctance to endorse the investigation results or criticize Pyongyang.

Wen's pledge not to defend the perpetrators, as reported by South Korea, may also be a sign that Beijing won't exercise its veto at the Security Council. That would likely be conditional on any measures taken against the North being symbolic and unlikely to further destabilize the regime.

Wen, South Korea's Lee and Japanese Prime Minister Yukio Hatoyama are scheduled to hold a three-way summit Saturday and Sunday on the South Korean island of Jeju.

In Seoul, about 200 anti-North Korea activists, some carrying signs, gathered in front of the Foreign Ministry to protest China's stance over the ship sinking.

"The Cheonan sinking was undoubtedly an act of terrorism," said protest organizer Lee Hung-woo. "I hope Premier Wen Jiabao will stand for peace, not terrorism."