Aid ship attacked by Israeli soldiers

[lxskllr]

Everyone spies on everyone. In fact, the USS Liberty was a US spy ship. I mean..."Technical Research" vessel.

Yea, good reason to attack one of your ally's ships....

[danielan]

Yea, good reason to attack one of your ally's ships....

No, of course not.

It's just a topic that has come up recently here that ties in to truthwolf's video.

We can be allies and still spy on one another. It doesn't make you less of an ally, because that is how the "game" is played.

[blotgode]

Kommandosoldaterna sköt skarpt mot aktivisterna när de hissades ner från helikoptrar.
Nu berättar svenskarna om Israels attack.
– Det var blod överallt, säger Edda Manga som var ombord.
I går kom de sju svenskar som suttit frihetsberövade i Israel hem sedan attacken mot hjälpkonvojen Ship to Gaza. Edda Manga och hennes man Mattias Gardell var med på fartyget Mavi Marmara där åtta turkiska och en turkamerikansk aktivist dödades.
De satt i fartygets medierum när attacken påbörjades tidigt på morgonen och fick därför hela tiden information om vad som hände. De fick ganska snart veta att en journalist som blivit deras vän var död.
– Jag glömmer aldrig attacken. Vi omringades av 14 krigsfartyg, u-båtar och apachehelikoptrar med kommandosoldater. De använde gas, ljud- och splitterbomber. Det fanns inte tid att vara rädd, det var på liv och död, säger religionshistorikern Mattias Gardell.
Aftonbladet var med på de flygplan från Istanbul som svenskarna flög hem med i går eftermiddag. För första gången kunde de läsa i tidningar från hela världen om rapporteringen.
– Jag har läst att Israel säger att det var vi som startade våldet. Det är fullkomligt uppochnedvända världen. Det fanns absolut inga vapen ombord, säger Mattias Gardell.
I stället försökte aktivisterna försvara sig med små flaggstänger, köksknivar och vattenslang, säger han. En del beslagtagna vapen slängdes över bord.
Kalla på hjälp
– Vi ville gå ut och se vad som hände men det var svartmaskerade elitsoldater överallt så vi gick in igen. Vi försökte be Israel om hjälp och kallade på läkarvård. Men de stängde av systemen omedelbart, säger skribenten Edda Manga.
Hon säger att fem av aktivisterna dog direkt. De andra dog på grund av att de inte fick läkarhjälp.
– Det var fasansfullt, det var blod överallt. Jag var rädd att Mattias skulle käbbla emot, för de slog och satte huva på alla som protesterade på något sätt.
Satt med huvor
Nere i hytterna revs alla väskor och saker ut så att allas saker blandades ihop. Edda Manga fick intrycket att hon och de personer som hade europeiska pass behandlades bättre än turkarna.
– Det märktes att de fått order att inte gör något radikalt med oss européer. Det var horribelt att turkarna tvingades sitta på knä med huvor och ögonbindel framför oss, säger hon.
Amil Sarsour som reste på det mindre fartyget Sfendonh tänkte på sina föräldrar som tvingades fly från sitt hem i Palestina när israelerna bordade båten.
– De åkte på båda sidor om vår båt. Jag hörde skott, jag hörde folk skrika, ändå ställde jag mig upp och protesterade mot soldaterna.
När svenskarna kom i land försökte israelerna få dem att skriva på papper där de intygade att de tagit sig in i landet olagligt. Edda Manga bad att få tala med någon från Sveriges ambassad eller med en advokat.
– Hon skrattade och sa. Du är i Israel, du har inga rättigheter.
Edda Manga skrev på pappret men lade till att hon nekade till brott och att hon ansåg sig kidnappad. De sa åt mig att jag aldrig skulle komma därifrån om jag inte skrev på, och i den stunden trodde jag dem.
Konstnären Dror Feiler tvingades ta av sig alla kläder innan han kroppsvisiterades. Han isolerads från alla de andra aktivisterna. På Elafängelset i Beer Sheva sattes han i isoleringscell och hungerstrejkade för att få träffa sin advokat.
Edda Manga berättar att de inte fick några rena kläder eller hygienartiklar. Fängelsepersonalen grinade mot dem och fotograferade dem.
– De behandlade oss som terrorister.

Hon lyckades hålla sig stark. Men när hon till slut kom ombord på det turkiska planet som skulle föra aktivisterna till Istanbul i förrgår kväll brast det.
– När jag satte mig kom det fram en manlig flygvärdinna och log och sa välkommen, hans ögon var leende och vänliga. Då började jag gråta.

Command Soldiers shot sharply against the activists when they were hoisted down from the helicopters.
Now says Israel's attack on the Swedes.
- There was blood everywhere, "says Edda Manga who was on board.
Yesterday came the seven Swedes who had been detained in Israeli homes since the attack on the convoy through In Gaza. Edda Manga and her husband Mattias Gardell was with the ship Mavi Marmara where eight Turkish and Turkish-American activist was killed.
They sat in the ship when the attack began medierum early in the morning and was therefore all the time information about what happened. They were soon informed that a journalist who has become their friend was dead.
- I will never forget the attack. We were surrounded by 14 warships, submarines and apache helicopters with Special Forces troops. They used gas, noise and fragmentation bombs. There was no time to be afraid, it was a life and death, "says religious historian Mattias Gardell.
Aftonbladet was on the plane from Istanbul to the Swedes flew home yesterday afternoon. For the first time they read in newspapers around the world for reporting.
- I have read that Israel says it was we who started the violence. It is completely inverted world. There was absolutely no weapons on board, "says Mattias Gardell.
Instead, the activists tried to defend himself with the small flag poles, kitchen knives and water hose, "he says. Some confiscated weapons had been thrown overboard.
Call for help
- We wanted to go out and see what happened but it was a black hooded elite soldiers everywhere, so we went in again. We tried to ask Israel for help and called for medical attention. But they turned off the system immediately, "says author Edda Manga.
She says that five of the activists died instantly. The others died because they did not get medical help.
- It was horrible, there was blood everywhere. I was afraid that Matthias would wrangle received, for the beating and sat on the hood all the protesting in any way.
Rated with hoods
Down in the cabins demolished all the bags and things like that all things were mixed. Edda Manga got the impression that she and those persons who had European passports were treated better than the Turks.
- It was obvious that they had received orders not to do something radical to us Europeans. It was horrible that the Turks were forced to sit on his knees with hooded and blindfolded in front of us, "she says.
Amil Sarsour, who traveled to the small vessel Sfendonh thought of his parents who were forced to flee their homes in Palestine where the Israelis boarded the boat.
- They went on both sides of our boat. I heard shots, I heard people screaming, anyway, I put myself up and protested against the soldiers.
When the Swedes came ashore Israelis tried to get them to write on paper in which they testified that they had entered the country illegally. Edda Manga asked to speak with someone from the Embassy or a lawyer.
- She laughed and said. You are in Israel, you have no rights.
Edda Manga wrote on the paper but added that she denied the crime and that she considered herself kidnapped. They told me that I would never get out unless I wrote on, and in that moment I believed them.
The artist Dror Feiler had to take off all clothes before he was body searches. He isolated from all the other activists. In Beer Sheva in Elafängelset he was put in solitary confinement and on hunger strike to meet with his lawyer.
Edda Manga says that they had no clean clothes or toiletries. Prison staff grinned at them and photographed them.
- They treated us like terrorists.

Translated with google.......

[tom502]

I believe it.

[Judge Faust]

Not saying that you are in any way being anti-semetic because you do not appear to be taking that stance, but rather you do not seem to see the Jews as brothers and human beings that are entitled to the "human rghts" you so often become a proponent of. When their civilians are killed I hear silence to the point where I could hear a pin drop from the anti-israel crowd.


Listen to your hero Faust, we are all brothers here in the working class, and the rich (be it jew, german, american, or other) oligarchs all conspire against the working class. In this struggle we must find a bond between all the peoples of the world who wish to live in peace and abundance. To defeat this ruling class of oppressors we must stand together and not be distracted by their games.

The anti-jew thing is one of those games i'm afraid, just as the black vs. white, mexican vs. american thing. It's all a ruse, created by the upperclass to keep us fighting amongst ourselves so that we may never unite to take down the real threat to world stability. Don't play into it Faust, do not use the "human rights" thing as a weapon to use against your opponents, yet pardon your own team when they commit the same crimes. Like how you blast American imperialism yet seem to be a proponent of communist imperialism. The rules must be universal and apply to everyone, and we shouldn't use these catchphrases like "human rights" in situations where they are not warranted.

What happened was one of error on both sides, both who were looking for trouble and both who got it. As always, the side that pulled the trigger first gets the bad publicity, but do not think for 1 moment that those protestors didn't come there to do anything but cause trouble that would later be reported in the media.

Though you claim to not be accusing me of antisemitism, my friend, that is precisely what your post seems to imply (ex: stating that I somehow am unwilling to recognize human rights for Jewish people).

Now, if you go back and read my posts, you'll notice that my criticism is directed at the Zionists, rather than the Jews in general. This is a vital distinction; failure to do so would be the same as accusing me of being racist against whites because I often criticize Hitler. That would be erroneous. In summary, I am not antisemitic; I am anti-Zionist. This is not about Jews vs. the civilized world; this is about barbaric Zionists vs. the civilized world (the civilized world also happens to include the non-Zionist Jews.

Also, I continue to reject your two-side solution. It is tempting to always blame both sides in any conflict - it's dead easy, and you can wash your hands of the matter if you can claim that no one is in the right. Unfortunately, real life is more complex than that. You cannot say that a rape victim is just as culpable as the rapist because she happened to be out alone at night... That would be just silly. And yet, you're using the same reasoning for this situation - you claim that the murder victims are just as guilty as the murderers, simply because they knew that the murderers might, in fact, murder them. No, I cannot accept this world-view. As a Communist and, more importantly, a decent human being, I will not assign any responsibility to the innocent victims of a heinous crime.

Finally, I do not engage in hypocrisy. I do not pardon "Communist imperialism" any more than I would pardon Western imperialism. The point is moot, however, seeing as none of the Communist nations are actually presently involved in any form of Imperialism, while Yankee troops just happen to be constantly engaged in the subjugation of sovereign peoples... Just goes to show that Communism is inherently more peaceful and decent, don't you think?

[Frosted]

Eh...... no.

[danielan]

Just goes to show that Communism is inherently more peaceful and decent, don't you think?

Good lord - did you sleep through the past century?

[sgreger1]

Though you claim to not be accusing me of antisemitism, my friend, that is precisely what your post seems to imply (ex: stating that I somehow am unwilling to recognize human rights for Jewish people).

Now, if you go back and read my posts, you'll notice that my criticism is directed at the Zionists, rather than the Jews in general. This is a vital distinction; failure to do so would be the same as accusing me of being racist against whites because I often criticize Hitler. That would be erroneous. In summary, I am not antisemitic; I am anti-Zionist. This is not about Jews vs. the civilized world; this is about barbaric Zionists vs. the civilized world (the civilized world also happens to include the non-Zionist Jews.

Also, I continue to reject your two-side solution. It is tempting to always blame both sides in any conflict - it's dead easy, and you can wash your hands of the matter if you can claim that no one is in the right. Unfortunately, real life is more complex than that. You cannot say that a rape victim is just as culpable as the rapist because she happened to be out alone at night... That would be just silly. And yet, you're using the same reasoning for this situation - you claim that the murder victims are just as guilty as the murderers, simply because they knew that the murderers might, in fact, murder them. No, I cannot accept this world-view. As a Communist and, more importantly, a decent human being, I will not assign any responsibility to the innocent victims of a heinous crime.

Finally, I do not engage in hypocrisy. I do not pardon "Communist imperialism" any more than I would pardon Western imperialism. The point is moot, however, seeing as none of the Communist nations are actually presently involved in any form of Imperialism, while Yankee troops just happen to be constantly engaged in the subjugation of sovereign peoples... Just goes to show that Communism is inherently more peaceful and decent, don't you think?

1) Sorry if I came off as calling you anti-Semitic, I am not one of those that blames anything bad someone says about the Jews on anti-Semitism, it just seems that you tout human rights for Palestinians, yet omit any human rights violations against Jews in Israel. The people who die in the Palestinian rocket attacks are Jews, not Zionists, which is why I was not accusing you of anti-Semitism but instead claimed that you were not giving proper came to Jewish human rights.

2)This analogy is a fail: "You cannot say that a rape victim is just as culpable as the rapist because she happened to be out alone at night... "\

That would be just silly. What I said is that someone shoots a rocket into your house killing your family so you retaliate by attacking their house. Both sides are in a way wrong there and both sides let to the conflict. Eye for an eye is how people in the middle east have always been. Right or wrong, it's how they see the world and I respect that.

Your a lawyer Faust, you know it is unfair for evidence to be used only against one side, while not allowing any evidence to be given on behalf of the defending side. Like if someone robbed my house and I shot them, would it be fair to only mention the evidence that I shot them during trial, and omit the fact that they were robbing me at gunpoint and it was therefore self defense?

3) "I will not assign any responsibility to the innocent victims of a heinous crime"

The term innocent here does not seem appropriate to me. If I saw a military checkpoint and said "f!*ck it i'm going to run the checkpoint ", then when the army tries to get your out of your car so they can search it for bombs, you then try to attack the soldiers with knives and bats and steal their weapons (I wouldn't exactly call you an "innocent" at that point). But I suppose this is where our logic splits, as a communist you feel that the underdog is always the person who loses the fight, not necessarily the instigator of the fight.

In my scenario, is the army the criminals for setting up a legal checkpoint and searching you after you try and run it? If, while searching your vehicle, you try to kill them is the army murderers for shooting you, considering that you have just labeled yourself as a combatant? In my world view I say no, you keow exactly how this would pan out and you are an idiot for making such stupid decisions.

4) " I do not pardon "Communist imperialism" any more than I would pardon Western imperialism. The point is moot, however, seeing as none of the Communist nations are actually presently involved in any form of Imperialism, while Yankee troops just happen to be constantly engaged in the subjugation of sovereign peoples... Just goes to show that Communism is inherently more peaceful and decent, don't you think? "


Your right, there are no communist nations practicing imperialism right now because they all failed many years ago due to the inherent corruption and instability that comes along with being an imperialist communist nation. Your right, the west is wrong for messing with sovereign countries and I am a strong proponent of us not doing that. But it doesn't show that communism is inherently more peaceful, communism has brought as much if not more evil and murder of innocents than the west, but since it was a weaker system destined to fail, it was cut out by evolution a long time ago. Do you remember your soviet gulags my friend? All empires are the same.

[sgreger1]

Good lord - did you sleep through the past century?

Lol, you must not know who your dealing with. Faust likes to ommit soviet gulags or the mass murders by stalin and the likes when he declares the west as human rights violators, because he sees communism as inherently perfect and more peacefull than all other systems.

[danielan]

Your right, there are no communist nations practicing imperialism right now because they all failed many years ago due to the inherent corruption and instability that comes along with being an imperialist communist nation

There's still Castro and Chavez.

[sgreger1]

There's still Castro and Chavez.

Communists they are, imperialists they are not. They are cordoned off to their little islands where they can oppress their people in peace. They aren't out trying to dominate the world or run the show like the soviet union was with their hitler era mass genocide and concentration camps.

[bsd777]

I hope Faust does not live in the US. Seriously, why do these people insist on changing our free republic, the most successful and freest nation known to man, into a socialist or marxist state? If that is your utopia, go to Cuba, red China or N. Korea and leave us in peace. I know they got it wrong, but THIS time it will be perfect. Please! You want govt managed health care and figure ours would be perfect, if only for more intrusion and management? Go to Canada, England, there are plenty of places to go that should be more to your liking. I love this country, but to tell you the truth, if a county existed that provided more freedom, I'd probably go there. You should do the same and join with like minded people.

[bsd777]

Now...back to jew hatinghttp://www.breitbart.tv/helen-thomas...germany-poland

Oh, and I really should not resort to name calling, but I'm at a loss. What kind of moron draws and equivalent between hundreds of publicly posted videos, from every major news outlet in the world, of thousands of elated Muslims dancing with joy at the aftermath of 9/11 and one video, produced by god knows who, which purports to show 5 Jews who, we are told, are elated at the aftermath of 9/11? WTF? My cousin's nephew's aunt's grandfather, told me he saw three retarded, Inuit, midgets dancing with joy too. I'll see if I can find the video, I'm sure it proves a masonic/Inuit conspiracy.

BTW - In case you didn't know it. The 19 hijackers were MUSLIMS. Also, you might not have noticed, so I wanted to let you know that various radical MUSLIMS have declared war against all of Western civilized society. Not Quakers, Mormons, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists or Atheists from Norway, but Islamists.

[sgreger1]

I hope Faust does not live in the US. Seriously, why do these people insist on changing our free republic, the most successful and freest nation known to man, into a socialist or marxist state? If that is your utopia, go to Cuba, red China or N. Korea and leave us in peace. I know they got it wrong, but THIS time it will be perfect. Please! You want govt managed health care and figure ours would be perfect, if only for more intrusion and management? Go to Canada, England, there are plenty of places to go that should be more to your liking. I love this country, but to tell you the truth, if a county existed that provided more freedom, I'd probably go there. You should do the same and join with like minded people.

Faust was born in (I forget the country) somewhere in the former USSR if I recall correctly. One of the smaller places, (Belarus maybe, I forget). He currently resides in San Francisco where I am and is a practicing attorney. I find him to be one of the most well written members here but I just cannot get on the same page with him about communism.

The problem is the propaganda war, in America I am tought that communism is the root of all evil, and where he came from, he gets propaganda about how its a constant struggle to end capitalism, because capitalism and the west is the root of all evil. So naturally he clashes with some people from the west. I don't mind the "idea" of communism, but in practice it just hasn't worked out so well. Capitalism has it's flaws too but I mean lets look at history and you tell me which worked better.

We have Europe and America (the "west") that maintains some version of capitalism (though an extremely watered down version). These two countries have shows the best track record as far as standard of living throughout the years.

Then we have the soviet union, the cubas, the venezuelas, the north koreas etc that practice one form or another of communism (also watered down), and they are almost all failed states (save for a few relitavely okay ones). They are either entirely destroyed and absolutely demolished by the western system and have since dissapeared into the darkness, or they are mainly filled with poor and oppressed people who go without on a daily basis.


Guess which system I choose for my family. Even in a devestating recession my standard of living is a million times better than it ever was in the USSR or venezuela, n korea, cuba etc.

[LaZeR]

Now...back to jew hatinghttp://www.breitbart.tv/helen-thomas...germany-poland

Actually, I'm kinda glad that ugly wench is on their side and not ours.