Aid ship attacked by Israeli soldiers

[Frosted]

Training, guts, and smarts won those wars not cash.

That is indeed the truth.

And I'll go further and say that anybody that states otherwise doesn't know what they are talking about.

[sgreger1]

They aren't the same at all. A Zionist is someone who demands land because a sky fairy said it belongs to them. A Jew's a Jew. Religion isn't a base for reality AFAIC.

Zionism isn't much more than a jewish nationalist movement, with an emphasis on the fact that they believe Israel is their homeland. It's like their version of a national liberation movement. But I find it funny that they are the only ones who get mud slung at them for having these views. I mean the mexicans have a similar movement, the reconquista and la raza, though it is not based on religion (for the most part), and yet I don't hear the international community talking about a vast conspiracy theory where the mexicans secretly run our government? I mean there would be more evidence of that conspiracy than the zionist one.

And what of all the lands that are fighting israel that have a similar movement, why no flack against them? What about those in Gaza and elsewhere that have their own battle for the land of Israel based on what sky fairies told them? Where is the international condemnation of them? Why are their actions not tracked and every little thing they do wrong get made into a big deal. Why is Zionism somehow worse than Islam?

No one is fooled here, when people talk about zionists, they are talking about Israel and the people that live in Israel, the people thatwant to keep it as their home since they have invested so much into it. If some f*#$tard started lobbing missiles into CA and I started fighting back, by the new standards I would be the bad guy, part of a massive sgreger1'ist conspiracy to keep my house and stop people from shelling it day and night.

[Bigblue1]

That's exactly right, they share borders with Egypt and could easly get goods through there. Everyone wants to defend Gaza but a bunch of criminals run that place and several border nations have had trouble with this and have blockaded them at one time or another, israel is just doing what everyone else is doing but thver ey get hated because they are jews. Oh sorry, not because they're jews, but because they are "Zionists" (which is a fancy word for jews).

Not true buddy. There is a big difference between jews and zionists. I really don't care what's happening in Gaza, It is what it is. but there is a big difference between jewish people who are all over the world and the zionist state.

[sgreger1]

You are confusing zionism with the sky fairy people

Zionism and Haredi (ultra-Orthodox) Judaisim
Haredi Orthodox organizations do not belong to the Zionist movement; they view Zionism as secular, reject nationalism as a doctrine and consider Judaism to be first and foremost a religion.


It's easy to label any jew in Israel with a blanket term like Zionist, just like I could broadly claim every mexican in california is an illegal and part of la raza, but it doesn't make it true. Zionism is mainly a nationalist movement with the main goal being to keep israel as theirs. Solution= stop trying to take israel away from them, at least they did something with that desert and they don't let terrorists come in an harass their people and overthrow politicians like some of their neighbors.

Israel is a bunch of shiesty jews if you ask me but compared to the criminals that dominate that entire continent, they are the good guys imo.

[lxskllr]

That is indeed the truth.

And I'll go further and say that anybody that states otherwise doesn't know what they are talking about.

I'm starting to wonder what kind of inverted dimension I've found myself in. Where invasion on the high seas isn't piracy, and "given"="won" :^?

[Darwin]

Many countries board ships on the high seas if they determine that they are carrying cargos at odds with that country's policies. They always have and they always will. It is hardly piracy since that implies some mercenary aspect to the proceedings which was clearly absent in the Israeli boardings as it also is in things like the Coast Guard's drug interdiction efforts and attempts by the U.S. Navy to intercept proscribed arms intended for opposing belligerents. If a country's navy boarded a vessel, confiscated cargo or the vessel itself, and then sold it to someone then that would be piracy.

[sgreger1]

I'm starting to wonder what kind of inverted dimension I've found myself in. Where invasion on the high seas isn't piracy, and "given"="won" :^?

I know, what kind of inverted universe have you found yourself in where attacking soldiers doesn't get you shot?

[Frosted]

What Darwin has been saying (better than I ever could and also more informed than any of us here) is the truth and reality. All arguments to the contrary have seemed to me to be bizarre in the extreme as if people are arguing that black is in fact white.

Distortion of cold facts I find extremely alarming and there's been plenty of that in this thread. Piracy my arse.

[Frosted]

They aren't the same at all. A Zionist is someone who demands land because a sky fairy said it belongs to them. A Jew's a Jew. Religion isn't a base for reality AFAIC.

Since the first century CE most Jews have lived in exile, although there has been a constant presence of Jews in the Land of Israel. Zionists have always wanted to return to that land and consider anybody living outside of the land to be in exile.
Zionism is a complex movement as it is not what you might think it is. There are various different forms of zionism and philosophies within the nationalist movement which have even been supported by Arabs, Persians and Kurds. On the whole Zionists accept that Arabs should have a state and that Arabs and Jews should live peacefully and trade - but it's rather difficult to do when you're constantly getting rocketed and bombed.

Other Zionists even say that it is against Jewish law for a Jewish state to exist. So - not every Jew wants it and not every Jew is a Zionist.

[bsd777]

I did not see this til late, but anyways I am that moron you DUMBED DOWN NEOCON! A link from Charles Krauthammer, the ultra uber NeoCon Zionist. CMON, how extreme to one side are you?

Chill out fu@ker with the name calling! It's a fricken forum with many different points and angles that you will not agree with.

The correlation was about the Isreali spies who were just as happy as the handful of Muslims dancing with joy that you showed and the word "friends". If they are to be considered our allies and recieve our highest amount of military/foreign aid then they could lighten up a little on the spying you would think.

Dont forget this from Netanyahu,
"We are benefiting from one thing, and that is the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq," Ma'ariv quoted the former prime minister as saying. He reportedly added that these events "swung American public opinion in our favor."

Sorry, I guess I shouldn't have called you a moron. It's a reflex reaction to substance-less conspiracy theory. Speaking of substance, what of the "neo-cons" substance do you take issue with? What exactly does neo-con mean? Is that code for Zionist, hook nose bankers?

Some how I suspect Israeli "spies" might be a little more discrete. Bibi said support for Israel increased after 9/11? Untrue, shocking? Proof of a conspiracy? What's your point?

[bsd777]

The Arabs aren't fighting Israel. They're fighting the USA via proxy. Are you really surprised when they say "screw the proxy", and go for the direct connection?

I think you're making an incorrect assumption. If Jews didn't exist, Islamists would still want to kill us.

[bsd777]

The Israel situation is not comparable at all with the other scenarios expressed. The point is, Israel is a Zionist secular "state" that was created by the UN, fueled by the holocaust, and placed onto Palestinian lands. The large population of Israel is from Europe, and anyone can move there and get a government check, if they can prove their grandfather is/was a Jew. Now, I don't agree with anyone blowing up supermarkets and buses at all, but this is why there is so much conflict with Israel. It's like if the US gov said Mexicans could move into your garage on your property, and you had to just live with it.

This is a common misconception. The land that comprises Israel, and MUCH more, was part of ancient Judea. The Romans tried to remove all vestiges of Judaism from the area. One part of this effort was renaming the land after the "philistines", a sea faring people. In the late 1800's this land was largely desolate, as noted by many, including Mark Twain. The Jews re-settled the area and made something of it. They were going to declare statehood, when the UN reluctantly agreed to "allow" it and created dual partitions, one for Arabs, the other a small squiggled, almost impossible to defend, track of land for the Jews. The Jews accepted. The Arabs did not. They started war with the Jews and the world watched. The Arabs promptly had their asses handed to them and the Jews took all the land offered them by the UN and some of the land the UN offered to the Arabs and the Arabs have been launching wars, getting their asses kicked, and land taken, ever since. As of late, the world has been pressuring the Israelis to give land "for piece", but it doesn't seem to be working.

[bottledwater]

actually the arabs hate us because we support israel. they dont really hate us, they just hate the israelis, and the friend of their enemy is their enemy, etc etc. i think it used to be about land or something, but now each side just wants to piss off the other side. watching global politics is like watching 200 5th graders try to work out how to live in a house. depressing.

but more on the subject,i cant believe israel did that, it was just dumb, in the words of ambassador udina "do the words 'political shitstorm' mean anything to you?". this whole thing could have been avoided if israel was like "k, u guyz, lemme just check what u got in there, if there are no weapons or nething u guyz can go ahead." but instead it was like "YOU SHALL NOT PASS, BITCHEZ!"

usually i take their side, but i have come to realize neither side is the good guy, they are both bad guys. hamas does like 10 things are are "just a little bad" but israel does 2 things that are 5 times worse, so they both end up doing the same amount of bad.

[bsd777]

Haredi Orthodox organizations do not belong to the Zionist movement; they view Zionism as secular, reject nationalism as a doctrine and consider Judaism to be first and foremost a religion.

Actually, they are waiting for the Messiah to return and give them land and don't want to jump the gun. Guess they don't believe in free will? They are frequently paraded around by anti-Semitics, like the Iranian leadership. Useful idiots?

[bsd777]

actually the arabs hate us because we support israel. they dont really hate us, they just hate the israelis, and the friend of their enemy is their enemy, etc etc. i think it used to be about land or something, but now each side just wants to piss off the other side. watching global politics is like watching 200 5th graders try to work out how to live in a house. depressing.

but more on the subject,i cant believe israel did that, it was just dumb, in the words of ambassador udina "do the words 'political shitstorm' mean anything to you?". this whole thing could have been avoided if israel was like "k, u guyz, lemme just check what u got in there, if there are no weapons or nething u guyz can go ahead." but instead it was like "YOU SHALL NOT PASS, BITCHEZ!"

usually i take their side, but i have come to realize neither side is the good guy, they are both bad guys. hamas does like 10 things are are "just a little bad" but israel does 2 things that are 5 times worse, so they both end up doing the same amount of bad.

And the Islamists hate the Hindus in India because they support Israel too? What about the Christians in the Philippines? They support Israel too? Or Van Gogh?

Shit gets broken and people die during war but it doesn't mean the Israelis are at fault.