Keith Olbermann-Keep Gen. McChrystal - Don't let him out of this Mess

[AtreyuKun]

I've seen that somewhere before....

[TheJanitor]

At least McChrystal can now devote 100% of his time to making more snuff.O & G is good stuff.

[sgreger1]

Well at least now he can retire early and become a Fox News commentator.

[sgreger1]

From the Venus Project website FAQ:

"If all the money in the world were destroyed, as long as we have sufficient arable land, the factories, the necessary resources, and technical personnel, we could build anything and even supply an abundance."

Failtacular concept. Who would work the factories, who would farm the land, how would we train technical personell or obtain the necessary resources? These utopian societies only work if 100% of the people are hardworking and 100% invested into the idea. Therefore this kind of thing could only occur in a group of maybe 10 people or less, not a nation of 400 million people, let alone an entire planet with several billion people.

[BadAxe]

1st off, I am not into labels. I do believe that its technology and scientists that solve problems. That does not make me a technocrat, it makes me a realist. I see what solves problems in this world, and I state that. So no, I am not a technocrat.

And of course its easy to pick apart the Venus Project, its just a vision. Instead of picking out all the ways it can not work, how bout looking into ways that it can work. Thats what is wrong with this world today, its easy just to bash something thats different, laugh at it, and state all the reasons why it can't be done. But you know, a lot of things have been done in this world that could not be done, that were bashed just like the Venus Project. Human Beings can do anything they set their mind to. And if enough people could see and understand how the world could work under the Venus project, there would be many less naysayers, and people giving it thought on how it can work. Its not a perfect plan, but its way better than the corrupt world we live in now. We live in a system where there HAS to be poverty, there can be no money system without poverty. And thats the right system? Puhhhhhhleeeaassssssseeeeeeeeeeee.

[sgreger1]

1st off, I am not into labels. I do believe that its technology and scientists that solve problems. That does not make me a technocrat, it makes me a realist. I see what solves problems in this world, and I state that. So no, I am not a technocrat.

And of course its easy to pick apart the Venus Project, its just a vision. Instead of picking out all the ways it can not work, how bout looking into ways that it can work. Thats what is wrong with this world today, its easy just to bash something thats different, laugh at it, and state all the reasons why it can't be done. But you know, a lot of things have been done in this world that could not be done, that were bashed just like the Venus Project. Human Beings can do anything they set their mind to. And if enough people could see and understand how the world could work under the Venus project, there would be many less naysayers, and people giving it thought on how it can work. Its not a perfect plan, but its way better than the corrupt world we live in now. We live in a system where there HAS to be poverty, there can be no money system without poverty. And thats the right system? Puhhhhhhleeeaassssssseeeeeeeeeeee.

Sorry I think this is one of those situations where typed words are not properly conveying my feelings or intent properly. I didn't mean to label you as a technocrat, I was saying if you were unaware of it to google it, since it lies at the basis of the venus project/zeitgeist movement.


I share your belief that technology and scientists solve our problems. But technology and scientists both require money to even exist. I for many years have imagined what kind of utopian world it would be if drug companies researched cures and not treatments for profit, if we really used our best technology for our space program etc. Human enginuity and progrss is so far the most advanced process in the universe. We came from living amongst the animals to building skyscrapers and walking on the moon in only a few thousand years. I hate to see greed, politics, and money slow that process down, just like you. We coud be doing so much better.



I am in no way advocating that our system is the "right" system, and I agree with the venus project founders statement that in the future, capitalism, socialism, communism etc will go down in the history books as failed social experiments. But while The venus project does sound good, and I could think of many ways it COULD work and establish a more permaculture type world, the problem is that you cannot overlook the foundation it's built on which CANNOT work.


The idea is that we eliminate money and use technology and automation to ultimately get rid of the need for labor. It also proposes that we do not have a governmetn run by humans, since all human governments have proven unsucessfull. It instead wants to create a government ran by computers that takes all things into account, such as what the demand is and what resources are available, and then distribute them properly.

The problem is that with this many people on earth, there has to be poverty. There isn't enough resources. We can all live in an equally lacking society where there is no rich or poor but everyone enjoys a lower middle class type life, or we could maintain the American model, where we embrace the fact that resources are limited and alow every man for themselves essentially (social darwin kinda, let the strong survive), so the hard working smart ones may someday aspire to live comfortably, and the lazy will not be able to suck away from the productive members of society (not as much as in a socialist utopia anyways).


Given that there is always a segment of the population that does not want to be productive, how could the utopian socialist model work? That is a flaw too big for me to overlook.




All in all I support their plan to build a "test" city as part of an open community project. I think that the venus project model would work great on a smaller scale and would love to see them buy up an island and make it happen. That would be the coolest social experiment ever and I would love to be a part of it.

[Mr. Snuffleupagus]

at least mcchrystal can now devote 100% of his time to making more snuff.o & g is good stuff.

lmao:d