Ignorance?

[sgreger1]

That's the point. Every nation has been guilty of it at one point of another, but there is no reason to murder kids and women and innocent people on their own countries land for crossing into a buffer zone that is rightfully palestines. They shot an 8 year old boy in the face and blew the back of his head out. IDF soldiers did that. completely uncalled for. look up the pictures I'll remember his name in a bit. And we support this. we support israel in shooting down civilians on their own soil.



on a sidenote. I'm getting some Beefeaters in about an hour

Okay tex, i get that those are bad things. Im saying why does the fact israel does them fascinate you. Why do you chose this one country to hold to a higher standard? Shooting kids and killing innocents is older than prostitution my friend. Im not saying what they are doing is right, what i am saying is that you cannot legitimately call them terrorists. People like to think in the last few thousand years human nature has changed or that something is somehow different, but its not. What israel does is what the US does and what many countries do. Why are you not concerned with whats happening in africa right now, rwanda etc, why does everyone focus on israel? Thats my question. Why is israel held to a higher standard, and called terrorists for doing what everyone else does or has done in recent history. Tex, your state would not be part of america if it were not for us doing in the past the same thing the israelis are doing today. It sucks but its part of life.


And if someone has a problem with it, then march an army down there and try stopping them, this is the way of the world.

[texasmade]

Okay tex, i get that those are bad things. Im saying why does the fact israel does them fascinate you. Why do you chose this one country to hold to a higher standard? Shooting kids and killing innocents is older than prostitution my friend. Im not saying what they are doing is right, what i am saying is that you cannot legitimately call them terrorists. People like to think in the last few thousand years human nature has changed or that something is somehow different, but its not. What israel does is what the US does and what many countries do. Why are you not concerned with whats happening in africa right now, rwanda etc, why does everyone focus on israel? Thats my question. Why is israel held to a higher standard, and called terrorists for doing what everyone else does or has done in recent history. Tex, your state would not be part of america if it were not for us doing in the past the same thing the israelis are doing today. It sucks but its part of life.


And if someone has a problem with it, then march an army down there and try stopping them, this is the way of the world.

I'm not holding them to a higher standard and I know about africa I have friends from over there and friends from rwanda and other african countries that have moved here to get away with it. nobody focuses on Israel, most places I know of support what they do. I'm saying the us shouldn't support israel in what they're doing. we called the high jackers and people that go into a city and blow themselves up terrorists. why not call israelis that. they may not blow themselves up but they drop bombs on hospitals and schools. same shit different method. everybody jumps to defend israel. if i had a passport i would fly down there and die with a gun in my hand. If I had the means I would go down to our border and shoot at anyone that tried to cross illegally, the same i would shoot at someone trying to come into my house without my permission. But I wouldn't post up and shoot people on the other side of the border, just like i wouldn't shoot someone that was on the sidewalk out front of my house.

[sgreger1]

I'm not holding them to a higher standard and I know about africa I have friends from over there and friends from rwanda and other african countries that have moved here to get away with it. nobody focuses on Israel, most places I know of support what they do. I'm saying the us shouldn't support israel in what they're doing. we called the high jackers and people that go into a city and blow themselves up terrorists. why not call israelis that. they may not blow themselves up but they drop bombs on hospitals and schools. same shit different method. everybody jumps to defend israel. if i had a passport i would fly down there and die with a gun in my hand. If I had the means I would go down to our border and shoot at anyone that tried to cross illegally, the same i would shoot at someone trying to come into my house without my permission. But I wouldn't post up and shoot people on the other side of the border, just like i wouldn't shoot someone that was on the sidewalk out front of my house.

I just noticed that you never post about the injustice in rwanda, but only post about what israel is doing. Just not sure why they are your favorite ones to complain about. The US supports them because it allows us a tactical advantage, not because we think they are swell guys. Business is business.

[texasmade]

I just noticed that you never post about the injustice in rwanda, but only post about what israel is doing. Just not sure why they are your favorite ones to complain about. The US supports them because it allows us a tactical advantage, not because we think they are swell guys. Business is business.

I'm pretty sure this is the first i've posted about israel, at least in a negative light.
If it would make you and snuson feel better we can have a rwanda traedy thread, but i'm sure hitler had something to do with that as well.

[shikitohno]

Well, texasmade, we're not going to come down on Israel for bombing hospitals and schools because of a little thing called the firebombing of Dresden. I mean, I don't like Israel, but it helps when what you're taking someone to task for isn't something that you've done on a much worse scale.

sgreger1, to answer to you why I ride on Israel so hard, it's because I feel like they get a free pass on everything they do. I disagree with how Israel came to be (as I said, if they had regained the land on their own, which they were well on their way to doing, this issue wouldn't bother me), and I disagree with how they do things. But most of all I disagree with how I hear so many people excuse what they're doing by saying, "Oh, but the Jews have been through so much, what with the Holocaust and all. You don't like Israel, so you must be an anti-Semitic person." I've been told that to my face a number of times. Now, the fact that I despise Nazi ideology and have plenty of Jewish friends apparently has no bearing on things, criticising Israel is enough to be branded an anti-Semite. I see too many people who treat them as a holy cow, who can do no wrong now since as a people the Jews were greatly wronged in the past. Yes, the Jewish people got the short end of the historical stick moreso than any other group I can think of, but that's not enough to me that they should be placed above reproach. Since, as I see it, they are treated as beyond criticism (in a way made into gods, seeing as they can do no wrong in the eyes of a great many), I feel obligated to remind people that they are indeed human, and that just like you and I, Israelis make mistakes and they do horrible things too. Perhaps I hold them to too high of a standard, but if that's the case I would venture to say that so polarizing is the topic that no one holds them to an appropriate standard, we only treat them too laxly or too harshly. I know that question was addressed to texasmade, but I felt since I'm jumping into the fray on this subject once more (and it always seems to involve you and I at the very least) I should clarify my position so that maybe you can see where I'm coming from. Israelis are neither better nor worse than anyone else, and I don't feel like their erroneous human nature is acknowledged by many in the US, as well as abroad. Also for the sake of clarity, when I say Israelis, I'm generally referring to the government of Israel rather than its people, who in most instances do nothing to bother me. My problems lie with the government and the settlers, two very specific parts of Israel that in my opinion do not often represent the majority of Israeli citizens as much as we think in opinions or in actions. Of course, this is just my opinion, and like everyone else here, I'm merely a fallible human being.

[sgreger1]

Well, texasmade, we're not going to come down on Israel for bombing hospitals and schools because of a little thing called the firebombing of Dresden. I mean, I don't like Israel, but it helps when what you're taking someone to task for isn't something that you've done on a much worse scale.

sgreger1, to answer to you why I ride on Israel so hard, it's because I feel like they get a free pass on everything they do. I disagree with how Israel came to be (as I said, if they had regained the land on their own, which they were well on their way to doing, this issue wouldn't bother me), and I disagree with how they do things. But most of all I disagree with how I hear so many people excuse what they're doing by saying, "Oh, but the Jews have been through so much, what with the Holocaust and all. You don't like Israel, so you must be an anti-Semitic person." I've been told that to my face a number of times. Now, the fact that I despise Nazi ideology and have plenty of Jewish friends apparently has no bearing on things, criticising Israel is enough to be branded an anti-Semite. I see too many people who treat them as a holy cow, who can do no wrong now since as a people the Jews were greatly wronged in the past. Yes, the Jewish people got the short end of the historical stick moreso than any other group I can think of, but that's not enough to me that they should be placed above reproach. Since, as I see it, they are treated as beyond criticism (in a way made into gods, seeing as they can do no wrong in the eyes of a great many), I feel obligated to remind people that they are indeed human, and that just like you and I, Israelis make mistakes and they do horrible things too. Perhaps I hold them to too high of a standard, but if that's the case I would venture to say that so polarizing is the topic that no one holds them to an appropriate standard, we only treat them too laxly or too harshly. I know that question was addressed to texasmade, but I felt since I'm jumping into the fray on this subject once more (and it always seems to involve you and I at the very least) I should clarify my position so that maybe you can see where I'm coming from. Israelis are neither better nor worse than anyone else, and I don't feel like their erroneous human nature is acknowledged by many in the US, as well as abroad. Also for the sake of clarity, when I say Israelis, I'm generally referring to the government of Israel rather than its people, who in most instances do nothing to bother me. My problems lie with the government and the settlers, two very specific parts of Israel that in my opinion do not often represent the majority of Israeli citizens as much as we think in opinions or in actions. Of course, this is just my opinion, and like everyone else here, I'm merely a fallible human being.

I totally get that shiki, and i agree with your whole statement. Israel does ****ed up shit day and night and that sucks, my thing is i just notice that they are the only ones who seem to get called on it. You think they are above criticism, yet all i hear from the world media is criticism of everything they do. I mean the associated press even goes out of their way and photoshoppes pictures to make the israelis look bad.


As far as i can tell, israel isnt much different from the rest of the middle east. They do shit different out there and we in america do not understand it. Do you think that if palestinians had a giant superior army, they wouldnt be over ****ing with the israelis? Becuase they would. I have no excuses for israel and the shit they do, it just seems that everyone, especially the media, goes out of their way to point out when israel does something wrong, meanwhile worse things are happening and i hear very little about it.




Anyways, i only got into this topic because tex said they are a terrorist state, and i just wanted to point out that what they are doing is not so uncommon, and that relative to other countries, its not fair to call them terrorists. The whole word "terrorist" is too broad to even be of any real meaning nowadays.


As far as the jews getting the short end of the stick, so the **** what. This is survival of the fittest out here. If you ask me the blacks got the short end of the stick. Even though we all supposedly started out in africa, blacks seem to be the ones getting the shaft no matter where in the world they go. But do they get sympathy? No not for a second. So i see what your saying when you say you dont wanna hear it when people say "oh but the poor jews have it so bad". Tough luck, its the cards you were dealt.




But, all im saying, is that military might supercedes any law of any land. Israel is lock stock and ready to roll anytime someone wants to get some. So if anyone is feeling froggy, go give it a shot, but right now israel is the military power in the region so they make the ****ing rules.

[shikitohno]

Well, part of why the media rides Israel so hard, along with the international community, is that a lot of the other countries don't need to be told so many times. Israel knows that whether right or wrong, they've pretty much always got the backing of the US no matter what they're doing. When Israel pisses off Saudi Arabia, or Lebanon, or Jordan, you don't hear the leaders of those countries saying they're going to pre-emptively wipe Israel off the map if they so much as make a funny move. Don't get me wrong, they have no love of Israel, but after a couple failed attacks, it's simmered down to "the second you step on our soil, your country is gone." In other countries that are on the same economic level as Israel, or have the same sort of international heft, you don't see them having to be told by the rest of the world on an annual basis to cut the sh*t. Israel is right up there with Iran and N. Korea for number of sanctions the UN (and by proxy the rest of the world) has seen fit to place on them. The only reason Israel isn't in a state of economic collapse from the burden of these sanctions is that the US continually blocks them. Israel either needs to fend for themselves, or get the f*ck off the field, without the US constantly protecting them and shielding them from every reproach. Part of the blame for situation being as bad as it is lies with the US. We use our seat on the Security Council to make sure Israel never takes a hit, even when it's a well deserved one, from the international community. And for what? We give them billions upon billions of dollars of military aid constantly, bend over backwards at the cost of our own credibility, and what the hell do we get in return from Israel? The brilliant, hawkish policies of Benjamin Netanyahu? A duplicitous twat who says he wants to move towards a peace settlement and does everything possible to prevent one from being reached.

Right now, Israel is only the military power because they're propped up, at little to no cost, by the US government, year after year. Left to fend for themselves, without protection from sanctions or charges of war crimes by the US, without the military aid every at the expense of the US taxpayers, Israel would be in shambles. It would just be a Jewish version of Iran. An international pariah, with an extremist, hard-line theocracy, who present nothing but a threat to stability. I'm saying the only reason Israel isn't branded a terrorist state is because they are considered our ally. Almost tit for tat, they pull the same crap Iran does, with the same motivation of defending themselves from some vast conspiracy born of paranoia. The only reason Iran is considered a terrorist state is because it is opposed to the US. You can bet that were we allies with Iran and at odds with Israel, the labels of terrorist state and peacekeeper of the region would switch.