Originally posted by Bigblue1
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You know that this conspiracy stuff gets a bit old. First the commies were set to take over the world, then it was the Tri Lateral Commission and now it's the New World Order. IMO, it's just greed. Simple as that. Besides, if somebody really wants the world, let them have it. It's a pretty screwed up place! -
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The tri-lateral commission and the cfr are big parts of the NWOOriginally posted by GoVegan View PostComment
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Pardon my ignorance. Hey, since the Mayans predicted long ago that the world was coming to an end in 2012 does all of this really matter?Originally posted by Bigblue1 View PostComment
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I'm not so sure about conspiracy. I think it's happening right under our noses, but most of us don't have the knowledge to understand the true implications of these esoteric financial and trade laws. If someone with the knowledge speaks out against it they are labeled as a freedom hating commie.Comment
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My only current recommendation is The Libertarian Party.
TimComment
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The middle class is what stabilizes society.......at least western societies. If the mexicans are so cool with being coolies for their own ruling class that kind of explains why our own rulers have been importing them.Comment
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When "outsourcing" became accepted practice, it was the death knell for our economy. Manufacturing and factories were the foundation this country was built upon. We now buy products, manufactured abroad, owned by American business. When you have a trade deficit as high as ours, you basically handed the "house keys" to foreigners, whom may someday be your enemy..and they will never have to fire a shot in anger, to destroy your country.Comment
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Originally posted by RobsanX View Post
^^^^ what a freedom hating commie.
Guys this is a problem that had to happen, this is the natural cycle of things. We go through a good period and lots of people get rixh, companies get big and become publicly traded corporations. Once youve reached that point, you are OBLIGATED to make as much money as possible, and pay your employees as little as you can get away with. The ceo will be fired if he doesnt earn his investors a dividend each year. If the company makes 50 million, he cant raise wages of the workers because that hurts the stock holders, which are the real customers of the corporation.
Its thing like this that make it inevitable that we will have a wealth gap. This has been happening since the very first protostates came into being. Read the book "the richest man in babylon", who was written by someone from babylon who discussed this whole concept. It breaks down like this: the rich will always be rich because they understand how money works. If you can understand it, than you too can be rich. Most people dont understand money and are financially illiterate, and as the government makes it easier and easier to remain financialy illiterate by giving us social programs, the gap between the haves and the have nots will continue growing.
But, then a big collapse comes, created by greed that went out of control. Massive unemployment, economic woes, everyone spends less all of a sudden and has to be more frugal. This is where we are today. This would be a great time to rebuild our manufacturing strength like we did after the depression. Unemployed americans means cheap labor. We could once again be able to compete with the world and start making and buying american again.
But none of that will happen as long as the government keeps propping everybody up and making it profitable to be unemployed. This resurgence of american industrial might will never happen if we keep using government money to artificially stimulate things. We are loosing a golden oppertunity to have another booming century here. But right now they are paying everyone money and waiting it out, in hopes that things will recover. But we need to BE that recovery, and we cant do that if we keep increasing social programs out into infinity. We are delaying the inevitable.Comment
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Originally posted by Curtisp View Post
But what brought outsourcing? Perhaps the fact that an american wont knit a t-shirt or pick strawberries unless they are making 80$ an hour plus union benefits and a pension. This is the thing, we have to fix our broken system and do what must be done in order to fix things. It is going to suck at the beginning but long term we will prosper.Comment
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Here we go with the attacks on the union and middle class workers. From O NETOriginally posted by sgreger1 View Post
Earnings of textile, apparel, and furnishings workers vary by occupation. Because many production workers in apparel manufacturing are paid according to the number of acceptable pieces they produce, their total earnings depend on skill, speed, and accuracy. Workers covered by union contracts tend to have higher earnings. Median hourly wages by occupation in May 2008 were as follows:
Fabric and apparel patternmakers $18.15
Extruding and forming machine setters, operators, and tenders, synthetic and glass fibers 14.98
Upholsters 13.94
Textile knitting and weaving machine setters, operators, and tenders 12.21
Shoe machine operators and tenders 12.06
Tailors, dressmakers, and custom sewers 12.01
Textile winding, twisting, and drawing out machine setters, operators, and tenders 11.53
Textile bleaching and dyeing machine operators and tenders 11.38
Shoe and leather workers and repairers 11.00
Textile cutting machine setters, operators, and tenders 10.88
Sewers, hand 10.58
Sewing machine operators 9.55
Pressers, textile, garment, and related materials 9.15
Laundry and dry-cleaning workers 9.14
All other textile, apparel, and furnishings workers 11.85
Yes - its those damn lazy no good Americans demanding $12.00 an hour to work that are creating the problems our country is facing. What? They want pensions and medical benefits to go along with that fat $12.00 an hour salary? Screw them, that's what MediCaid/MediCare and Social Security are for.
For some reason, people have this illusion that there are just thousands of people out there making $80.00 an hour to do unskilled labor. Please sgregor tell me where these jobs are at? For $80.00 an hour I will gladly relocate even if it means picking strawberries in the hot sun! I am union, spent 5 years in the army, have a 4 year degree, years of experience and training but make about 1/3 of this so I must be doing something wrong. To make matters even worse, I have a pension and a medical plan that I must contribute well over $1000 bucks a month to maintain. I love my job and am quite happy with my salary but it is just pathetic to think that the average worker is just screwing this country over or that Americans are just plain lazy. Speak for yourself!Comment
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while sgreger may be right in some circumstances (I'm looking at you UAW) It's not the norm. Coming from the industry and having worked many years for domestic brand dealerships I can tell you that a line worker doing the least they have to for the most money is what ruined the US auto industry. Lets face it almost all asian manufacturers do much more with much less employing US Workers whilst the UAW Bearocrats get fat money while the average worker may make $30 an hour where does the other $50 go. To the corrupt union f ucks that's where. So while I was killing myself working 70-80 hrs a week as a finance manager in a dealership just to make 100k if I was lucky, because my money was based on performance and never gauranteed if the market fell out i was left holding the bag whilst the union workers still made theirs wether they put out a quality product or not. I am not against people making a decent wage, but when things go south you cannot still employ people and over produce a product that eventually will affect others in the chain..,,,, Just look at toyota they have a bunch of factories in the US and those people are more than happy to be paid appropriately. All I want to type ATM, but I'll have more l8r...Comment
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Originally posted by GoVegan View Post
Umm, im sorry i must have misrepresented my point. I dont think unions or the middle class are bad. My uncle is a union boss here in san jose. The total compensation package is worth 80$ on a lot of these jobs, such as if I recall correctly, people that work at gm. They get like 18$ an hour but medical and pensions, vacation etc add up to roughly 80$ an hour in compensation. I make 20 an hour but my total compensation puts me at at least 60k a year if you add in benefits, thats what i meant.
Anyways, the point was not to badmouth americans wanting the decent wage they deserve. My point was that now we exist on an international playing field, and if labor is cheaper in india, the jobs will go there. It makes simple business sense, to remain competative and not go bankrupt our companies must do this. What i am saying is that this is part of a larger problem. After years of cheap and easy credit and terrible management from the government, cost of living increases constantly. Whereas someone in india can live pretty good on 12$ an hour, an american cannot. Here in ca, if you make less than 100k you cant even afford a modest house.
This is the problem. Our cost of living is so expensive in america that it requires wages to be higher than they are in our competitor countries. This, in the long run will lead to jobs going overseas.
That is all i was trying to say, not that unions are bad or that i hate the middle class. I am by all means a part of the middle class and both my wife and i come from poor families, both of which immegrated here from other countries. I understand how much it sucks for the middle class and i protest it constantly. We need to reshape how we do business in america. We need to get rid of the corporation and start having profit sharing cooperatives like some of the companies here in san francisco. That way if everyone works harder, everyone makes more money, the company grows and your wages are not stagnant like they are in most corporations. In companies such as the one that currently employs me, there is no real increase in wages unless you go to college and get a promotion, yet cost of living rises each year. Now my mother who did go to college and makes good money can not even afford to buy a house or drive something more luxurious than her Saturn.Comment
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Originally posted by Bigblue1 View Post
Exactly. This is in essence my problem. When the economy suffers and everyone is loosing their jobs and suffering from lower wages, unions and government employees expect to keep their good compensation packages. This means we cannot be competitive in the broader world market, because when things slow down, others in other countries will do it for less.Comment
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