RAND PAUL talk about RAND PAUL. /RAND PAUL!

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  • sgreger1
    Member
    • Mar 2009
    • 9451

    RAND PAUL talk about RAND PAUL. /RAND PAUL!

    I keep seeing Joe's posts regarding Olberman or some other blowhard talking shit about Rand Paul. For those with the time, read this and tell me what you think is wrong, if anything, with the below statement. Is this how you envision America, or do you see it a different way?

    Does this sound like "The worst governor ever", as quoted by Joe? Is there anything here he is saying that you don't agree with? If so, what.




    By Rand Paul:

    It's often repeated in stories about me or my race for U.S. Senate that I am a "libertarian." In my mind, the word "libertarian" has become an emotionally charged, and often misunderstood, word in our current political climate. But, I would argue very strongly that the vast coalition of Americans — including independents, moderates, Republicans, conservatives and "Tea Party" activists — share many libertarian points of view, as do I.

    I choose to use a different phrase to describe my beliefs — I consider myself a constitutional conservative, which I take to mean a conservative who actually believes in smaller government and more individual freedom. The libertarian principles of limited government, self-reliance and respect for the Constitution are embedded within my constitutional conservatism, and in the views of countless Americans from across the political spectrum.

    Our Founding Fathers were clearly libertarians, and constructed a Republic with strict limits on government power designed to protect the rights and freedom of the citizens above all else. Our deep respect for these principles of liberty and the laws that protected them are what allowed America to become the greatest, most prosperous nation in human history.

    Other principles shared by libertarians and traditional conservatives will be familiar to most, because they are the story of our greatness.

    They include sound money (meaning a dollar that keeps its value over time); a foreign policy of peace through strength, of neither military weakness nor overreaching nation-building; and a government that lives within its means and abides by the limits set forth in the Constitution.


    These are the views that unite many conservatives and libertarians. And they form the basis for my campaign this year, one that has struck a chord with Republicans, independents, libertarians, and Tea Party activists.

    Trouble started decades ago
    Our current economic crisis, the recent bailouts and the overreach of the one-party rule in Washington have crystallized something for millions of Americans — that something has gone terribly wrong. And it didn't start in 2008. It goes back decades.

    More and more power became centralized in Washington, D.C., as the federal government responded to every new crisis — from the Great Depression to the Great Recession of today — by expanding its reach deeper into all of our lives.

    Now Washington forces us to buy health insurance while limiting our choices. Programs must fit its bureaucratic standards, effectively putting government in control of what medicines and treatments millions of Americans can get. The bailouts and federal takeovers of the past two years have made the federal government the nation's top mortgage lender and a major player in auto manufacturing, as well as Wall Street's ATM of first and last resort.

    This departure from the limited government envisioned by the Founders has encouraged too many Americans to forget their heritage of freedom. When there is a problem, Washington tells us, more government is the solution.

    A careful look at some libertarian views, however, could reawaken in us the virtues this nation was founded upon: hard work, individual responsibility, families and neighbors taking care of one another, and honest competition in the marketplace — not phony competition in which politicians deem favored businesses "too big to fail."

    The people's role
    What the Founders intended, and what many libertarians today want, is something different: a federal system that keeps decision-making close to the people. The federal government should not do what the states can do for themselves, the states should not do what local governments can do for themselves, and local governments should not do what families, faith groups and individuals can do for themselves.

    The Founders understood, however, that the federal government has important roles to play, both in protecting our nation and in protecting the rights of its citizens. State and local governments can exceed their powers and injure citizens' rights just as the federal government can.
    That's why the Constitution explicitly forbids states to do certain things, such as issue their own currency. Before the Constitution was ratified, states created inflationary currencies to defraud creditors. Sometimes federal action is necessary to correct violations of rights at the state and local levels. Liberty is secure in a federal system when the federal government and the states check one another, not when either side completely dominates the other at the expense of freedom.
    Liberty is our heritage; it's the thing constitutional conservatives like myself wish to preserve, which is why Ronald Reagan declared in 1975, "I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism."

    I am sure that this belief is becoming more and more vital to our very survival as a nation — that belief in self-reliance, limited government and the Constitution hold the keys to fixing our problems and getting our nation back on track. And, I also believe that the common bond of liberty can unite Americans and build a winning political collation to stand up against big government elites in both parties while reclaiming our freedom and prosperity.
    Rand Paul is the Republican candidate for the U.S. Senate in Kentucky.
  • RobsanX
    Member
    • Aug 2008
    • 2030

    #2
    It's just vague and general rhetoric. Stuff that any politician would say like "America is great because we believe in liberty.", and "I believe in protecting people's rights."

    Not much substance to this statement.

    Comment

    • sgreger1
      Member
      • Mar 2009
      • 9451

      #3
      Originally posted by RobsanX View Post
      It's just vague and general rhetoric. Stuff that any politician would say like "America is great because we believe in liberty.", and "I believe in protecting people's rights."

      Not much substance to this statement.


      The substance here is that he outlines a specific structure in which our government should operate. As he said, "The federal government should not do what the states can do for themselves, the states should not do what local governments can do for themselves, and local governments should not do what families, faith groups and individuals can do for themselves."


      That's exactly how it should be. Having a strong central government leads to the kind of corruption we see today. The more concentrated the power, the fewer the number of individuals that hold this power, the easier it is to lobby those few individuals.

      Look at healthcare reform, Obama got pushed around by the insurance companies and his "reform" turned into little more than forcing people to buy an insurance policy from the "evil" insurance companies. Same thing with the drug companies, they gave him millions to help sell his plan, and in return a huge part of the new system revolves around the government subsidizing (paying for) pharmaceuticals.




      But, he is a politician like all others, so your probably right. It's at least nice to hear someone say what you want to hear. Them doing it is a whole other matter. I mean look at Obama, he campaigned on the promise that he would be the opposite of Bush and instead just took bushes programs and expanded them. Now we have a stronger patriot act, tripple the amount of troops deployed in afghanistan, increased runaway spending, decrease in personal liberty, still torturing people, still fighting the war on drugs, double the deficit etc etc etc.

      Comment

      • Joe234
        Member
        • Apr 2010
        • 1948

        #4
        Originally posted by sgreger1 View Post
        I keep seeing Joe's posts regarding Olberman or some other blowhard talking shit about Rand Paul. For those with the time, read this and tell me what you think is wrong, if anything, with the below statement. Is this how you envision America, or do you see it a different way?

        Does this sound like "The worst governor ever", as quoted by Joe? Is there anything here he is saying that you don't agree with? If so, what.

        Worst Governor ever is was Sarah Palin. Rand Paul was never a Governor.
        Palin was a half-Governor.

        Sarah Palin Confrontation Worst Governer Ever sign




        --

        --

        Comment

        • sgreger1
          Member
          • Mar 2009
          • 9451

          #5
          Originally posted by Joe234 View Post
          Worst Governor ever is was Sarah Palin. Rand Paul was never a Governor.
          Palin was a half-Governor.
          --

          --


          Actually Sarah Palin was wildly popular (for some reason) when she was governor. In fact, her approval rating has never fallen as low as Obama's approval rating, ever. She enjoyed approval ratings in the 90's and left witha low 56, still more than a dozen points above Obama's approval rating.

          And she quit (which I think was stupid) halfway through not because she didn't feel like being governor, it was because in Alaska any ethics claims against the governor are required by law to be persued in court, which became too costly to her. She never actually violated any ethics rules, and the court always ruled in her favor (not guilty), but the legal costs were too much for her checkbook (she's not filthy rich like Obama's been his whole life).

          So she was forced to quit because liberal activists did the typical liveral tactic of tying her up in court forever, slowly draining her bank account. Not exactly "half governor" or quitting, but rather forced out due to financial reasons.


          Also, at least she had some "ethics", unlike the democrats. Charles Rangel, who is currently fighting several ethics charges in court, is funneling campaign funds to pay for his legal defense. Sarah Palin on the other hand used her own money and not that of her campaign fund donated to her by supporters.



          Sara Palin's approval ratings:

          May 30, 2007 -89%
          June 21, 2007 -93%
          November 4, 2007 -83%
          April 10, 2008 7 -73%
          May 17, 2008 -69%
          August 29 2008 -64%
          October 7, 2008 -63%
          March 24–25, 2009 -59.8%
          May 5, 2009 -54%
          June 14–18, 2009 -56%





          So, higher approval than Obama, clean of ethics charges and doesn't use campaign money to fund legal defenses. Joe, tell me, who is the worst governor now?


          /I hate having to defend Sarah Palin but I can't allow such a blatant attempt at making up facts occur in my thread.

          Comment

          • Joe234
            Member
            • Apr 2010
            • 1948

            #6
            Originally posted by sgreger1 View Post
            Actually Sarah Palin was wildly popular (for some reason) when she was governor. In fact, her approval rating has never fallen as low as Obama's approval rating, ever. She enjoyed approval ratings in the 90's and left witha low 56, still more than a dozen points above Obama's approval rating.

            And she quit (which I think was stupid) halfway through not because she didn't feel like being governor, it was because in Alaska any ethics claims against the governor are required by law to be persued in court, which became too costly to her. She never actually violated any ethics rules, and the court always ruled in her favor (not guilty), but the legal costs were too much for her checkbook (she's not filthy rich like Obama's been his whole life).

            So she was forced to quit because liberal activists did the typical liveral tactic of tying her up in court forever, slowly draining her bank account. Not exactly "half governor" or quitting, but rather forced out due to financial reasons.


            Also, at least she had some "ethics", unlike the democrats. Charles Rangel, who is currently fighting several ethics charges in court, is funneling campaign funds to pay for his legal defense. Sarah Palin on the other hand used her own money and not that of her campaign fund donated to her by supporters.



            Sara Palin's approval ratings:

            May 30, 2007 -89%
            June 21, 2007 -93%
            November 4, 2007 -83%
            April 10, 2008 7 -73%
            May 17, 2008 -69%
            August 29 2008 -64%
            October 7, 2008 -63%
            March 24–25, 2009 -59.8%
            May 5, 2009 -54%
            June 14–18, 2009 -56%





            So, higher approval than Obama, clean of ethics charges and doesn't use campaign money to fund legal defenses. Joe, tell me, who is the worst governor now?


            /I hate having to defend Sarah Palin but I can't allow such a blatant attempt at making up facts occur in my thread.
            Approval rating for what? She holds no office. Obama's ratings are higher than Clinton
            and Reagan.
            http://www.gallup.com/poll/116479/ba...-approval.aspx

            How is Obama filthy rich? Community organizers and professors don't make as much
            as Palin did with her 12 million dollar book deal. Not to mention her new book where
            she rips off other people's work and writes nothing.

            She's still the worst. Obama didn't quit and was never a Governor.
            Her rating are based on her doing nothing. She hasn't had to take heat
            for the economy, oil spill or anything.

            -


            --

            Comment

            • tom502
              Member
              • Feb 2009
              • 8985

              #7
              Obama is super rich, and has been most of his life, and his books made millions too, plus he was bathed in luxury all his life.

              Comment

              • sgreger1
                Member
                • Mar 2009
                • 9451

                #8
                Originally posted by Joe234 View Post
                Approval rating for what? She holds no office. Obama's ratings are higher than Clinton
                and Reagan.
                http://www.gallup.com/poll/116479/ba...-approval.aspx

                How is Obama filthy rich? Community organizers and professors don't make as much
                as Palin did with her 12 million dollar book deal. Not to mention her new book where
                she rips off other people's work and writes nothing.

                She's still the worst. Obama didn't quit and was never a Governor.
                Her rating are based on her doing nothing. She hasn't had to take heat
                for the economy, oil spill or anything.

                -


                --



                Approval ratings for what? For when she was governor genius, as was clearly stated with dates included. When she WAS in office, she was wildly popular, and was forced to step down because trial lawyers started bankrupting her by tying her up in court.

                And what do you mean how is Obama rich? You think Palin is the only one with a book deal? You are aware that Obama makes over 4 million a year mainly on his books, right? And who do you think paid for his expensive ivy league education? He didn’t do it on scholarship, his family had money.


                How is she the worst? Name something she did as governor that makes her “worse” than any other governor? Her ratings are based on her actions while in office, as are all approval ratings. You can’t just make claims that they are based on nothing, because I could then say Obama’s approval ratings are based on nothing, or Bush’s approval ratings were based on nothing. It doesn’t make sense, approval numbers are based on your performance in office. Her constituents loved her, something only a few governors in the country can say.

                I think she’s a dunce and could never handle sitting on the throne like the big boys, but to just claim she is the worst governor is completely based on nothing. Most importantly her constituents loved how she represented them while she was in office, which is more than any person in congress has been able to say for decades and decades.




                And lol @ the gallup link you posted, it lists 9 presidents approval ratings for the month of august, second year of first term, and Obama has the forth lowest approval out of every president on both sides of the isle. Historically, Obama has some of the lowest approval ratings of any president in our history. The 3 lowest were Carter, Clinton and Reagan, all with 41% approval. Obama only has a 45%, whereas Bush and his dad had 67% & 75% respectively. EVEN NIXON was more popular than Obama. Of the 4 lowest, 3 of them are democrats, and this includes Obama.

                If less than half the people in the room like you, I wouldn’t go around taunting your mediocre “approval rating” too loudly, whilst proclaiming that “THIS is what the people want!”, because quite obviously it is not.


                According to your link, for the month of Aug, second year, approval ratings were:


                Obama: 45% - Democrat -Lowest
                George W Bush: 67% -Republican
                Bill Clinton: 41% -Democrat -Lowest
                George H.W. Bush: 75% -Republican
                Ronald Reagan: 41% - Republican -Lowest
                Jimmy Carter: 41% - Democrat -Lowest
                Richard Nixon: 55% -Republican
                JFK: 67% - Democrat
                Eisenhower: 65% -Republican


                So Bush had a wildly higher approval than Obama, Bush’s father had nearly DOUBLE the approval rating of Obama, and Reagan only trails Obama by 5 points.




                Try again Joe. So far we have established that Palin does not qualify as worst governor by any standard, and that Obama has historically low approval ratings, making both Bush’s and eve Nixon look like glorious beloved leaders compared to him.

                Comment

                • sgreger1
                  Member
                  • Mar 2009
                  • 9451

                  #9
                  Rand Paul Fail:

                  Your campaign might be in trouble if you have to deny reports you kidnapped a woman and forced her to use drugs. Especially if your defense is "it never happened, and even if it did, it was all in fun"

                  Then again, it was just smoking weed (and you know she wanted it). But we know how druggy the illegal and illicit substance weed is. /druggie


                  Pull the clinton defense bro! "That depends on the definition of the word "is" ", and other classics such as "I did not kidnap, forcibly restrain, and dose THAT WOMAN with illegal drugs."

                  Comment

                  • Darwin
                    Member
                    • Mar 2010
                    • 1372

                    #10
                    Sarah Palin may be a dunce but I'll take a dunce over the blundering amateurish small time Chicaco ward heeler sitting in the big chair currently. Obama has an Ivy League education. So what? Bush had one as well. It's an irrelevant credential. Most of the people who have Ivy League degrees I wouldn't want near the White House. Obama has never struck me as really smart. Devious, cagey, tone deaf, arrogant, tedious and self-serving yeah, but smart? Not so much. Most of what spills out of him un-teleprompted is confused, lame and whiney. Does that qualify as smart? The tired boilerplate in the Rand quote above is more thoughtful and concise than anything the O-man has ever said but that is a very low bar indeed.

                    Comment

                    • sgreger1
                      Member
                      • Mar 2009
                      • 9451

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Darwin View Post
                      Sarah Palin may be a dunce but I'll take a dunce over the blundering amateurish small time Chicaco ward heeler sitting in the big chair currently. Obama has an Ivy League education. So what? Bush had one as well. It's an irrelevant credential. Most of the people who have Ivy League degrees I wouldn't want near the White House. Obama has never struck me as really smart. Devious, cagey, tone deaf, arrogant, tedious and self-serving yeah, but smart? Not so much. Most of what spills out of him un-teleprompted is confused, lame and whiney. Does that qualify as smart? The tired boilerplate in the Rand quote above is more thoughtful and concise than anything the O-man has ever said but that is a very low bar indeed.


                      My thought is that public office should be a volunteer job. In all seriousness, government should be ran like a 501-c3 charity organization, where it gets ONLY enough money to support the programs it's meant to support, and that the leaders should not be making big profit off of it, but rather a modest sum of perhaps 30-40k a year. This thing where every year congress is like "Look, we did a great job, lets vote ourselves a pay raise!" is nonesense.

                      We need to have part time legislators on the local level and non-career volunteers holding most public offices. It should be something you have a passion for, not something you do to get rich and be treated like a king. The current system makes politicians into some type of elite, above us all. Aside from the fact that it forms them into elitist pigs, it also seperates them from the "common" american. They sit up there making hundreds of thousands ,they everything comped on the taxpayer dime, they fly in executive private jets etc, and suddenly they feel they know the plight of the millions of unemployed Americans. They think they know what we want.


                      And most people who run for public office are already filthy rich, so they should be doing it for $0 like several governors in certain states already do. It's like being class president, you dont' do it because you get free money or perks like getting to go home early every day, you do it because you want to have a role in the community and be in charge of important decisions.




                      EDIT: And I guess dunce is the wrong word. I don't meant o be so hard on her, she was a great governor, and her constituents loved her more than 90% of governors in any other state, a record to say the least, but she's just not ready for the national stage. Not at all.

                      Comment

                      • sgreger1
                        Member
                        • Mar 2009
                        • 9451

                        #12
                        The woman who sparked a national firestorm by recounting Rand Paul's
                        youthful indiscretions to GQ magazine is now clarifying her account: She says she was not kidnapped nor forced to do drugs by Paul.




                        The woman -- who was made available to me for an interview by GQ reporter Jason Zengerle in response to the Paul campaign's denunciations of his article -- said she didn't mean to imply that she was kidnapped "in a legal sense."


                        (Slate: Racist 'Rand fan' actually Obama supporter)

                        Comment

                        • tom502
                          Member
                          • Feb 2009
                          • 8985

                          #13
                          Politicians these days are celebs. Their names and activities are reported in the same breath as Lady Gaga, and Paris Hilton.

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