They're gonna build you that nice mosque you wanted.

[Roo]

To equate Islam as a whole with the September 11th attacks is to tow the same line as Newt Gingrich.... And Osama Bin Laden.

[TheJanitor]

I think building it there shows extreme insensitivity to the victims of 9/11.Having said that,I support their right to build it there 100%.It may be unpopular,but we don't do a head count before enforcing the 1st Amendment.

[tom502]

I think it'd been a better idea to have a Temple of All Faiths United, and had floors for each respected path that chose to be a part of it. I think, as it is, the majority of the people do not like it. And even if the 911 people were fanatics, they were Muslim fanatics, and even if this was an inside job, they worked with Muslim fanatics(I think). So, while some might disagree, many do agree, that the terrorist acts by terrorists who proclain Islam, are doing it as a Muslim holy war. I also think this is why Obama is low in popularity, and fast becomeing the worst president even, because he goes out of his way, to support the things the majority of the nation does not.

[Darwin]

One has to wonder just why this particular site was chosen at this time. At best it's extremely bad PR and at worst it's a stick the knife in and twist sneering disregard for a tragedy perpetrated by radical Islamists plainly and purposefully in the name of Islam. Categorize radical Islamism as a perversion all you want but it is in fact the most common animating force for terrorist acts that exists in the world today.

Proposing this facility in the shadow of the World Trade Center site can in no wise be construed as an politically neutral act. No organization or person is so clueless as to have expected anything but a firestorm of protest over this project so by logical extension it must be seen as purely provocative in its very essence. The project is no more or less intentionally provocative than if a group were to announce the start of construction of the First Baptist Church Of Mecca. Now that would be entertainment, except for the hundreds or thousands killed in the world wide rioting, murder, and destructive mayhem perpetrated by millions of screeching ululating adherents of the ever so tolerant, learned, and "inclusive" Religion of Peace.

[f. bandersnatch]

I agree with what you are saying, but I think that it does have the possibility of being provocative in a positive way, as evidenced by the number of people present in this thread that do not seem to see a difference between radical and violent forms of Islam and the other 90% of people who practice it. Maybe placing a muslim geared community center likely to attract moderate practicers of the religion next to the site of the 9/11 tragedy will open some eyes.

Good idea? Maybe not, but I think the intent is no more malicious or evil than having a US embassy in Venezuela or something in that vein: "hey, don't those bastards have something to do with the bastards that totally ****ed us awhile ago?"

[sgreger1]

We all agree its a bitch slap to america, but we cant change who we are because of todays enemy. Freedom is freedom. Anything less is not freedom.

Remember the patriot act, dont give up freedom to solve todays problem. Look at the big picture. We must preserve freedom for our children, it all we have left and its erroding by the second. This is america, freedom is for everyone, even our enemies.

Like lx said, we didnt create the constitution to protect popular cocepts, we created it to make EVERYONE free. Dont sucumb to populist opinion.

[tom502]

I do think it ironic with the extreme lack of openness and welcomeness of other faiths in these Islamic nations. Just imagine a Dharma Center in Afganistan.

[shikitohno]

To be honest, I'm getting tired of hearing people from out of the state or country talking about how all of lower Manhattan is "holy ground." Yeah, it's sad and all that this happened, but really if you're from Texas or California or the UK, you've got no sort of legitimate stance to comment on the situation in Manhattan because you don't know what it is. I hear more vehement opposition from out of state or Europe over this mosque then I do from people who, you know, actually live there. Also, while Masjid Manhattan has been in that neighbourhood since the 70s, the group building this has also been there since the 80s. One of the guys in charge of the project has seriously messed up his eyesight for life because he was helping out rescue workers at ground zero, when 9/11 was actually happening, unlike you arm-chair bigoted Patriots shouting "USA #1, death to Muslims, screw the community centre!" You're also ignoring the other side of things. Even if building it is a propaganda victory for some Muslims, refusing to build it is an even bigger win for them because it shows them that we're terrified of them. Screw off, it's private property, the guy can do what he wants with it, and it's not even visible from ground zero.

[Frosted]

To be honest, I'm getting tired of hearing people from out of the state or country talking about how all of lower Manhattan is "holy ground." Yeah, it's sad and all that this happened, but really if you're from Texas or California or the UK, you've got no sort of legitimate stance to comment on the situation in Manhattan because you don't know what it is.

That comment if put into practice would automatically ban me from having any kind of opinion whatsoever in 'people and the world around us' as you're all American. So what can us 'foreigners' have an opinion on?

I don't know whether or not you've noticed, but I tend to stay out of 99.9% of the American politics threads anyway.

[chadizzy1]

I think it'd been a better idea to have a Temple of All Faiths United

Like the one in the Lost finale?

[shikitohno]

That comment if put into practice would automatically ban me from having any kind of opinion whatsoever in 'people and the world around us' as you're all American. So what can us 'foreigners' have an opinion on?

I don't know whether or not you've noticed, but I tend to stay out of 99.9% of the American politics threads anyway.

I'm not saying you can't have an opinion on anything to do with the US. What I'm saying is I'm tired of hearing people bitch and moan about how it would ruin downtown Manhattan when they don't live remotely close to it. It's one thing to say, I don't feel this is right because of the feelings of the people who lost family their, or whatever. What I'm growing tired of is hearing people from far outside the area talk about how the entire financial district is hallowed ground, as if everyone walks around sombrely in all of lower Manhattan, when that's not the case. There are a fair number of folks in New York City and the surrounding suburbs who are against it, sure. But it'd be like if a Muslim group wanted to build a mosque two stations up from where the guys bombed the underground in London, and I start talking about how the entire underground system is hallowed grounds to Londoners, when I have no clue if they treat it as such. Basically, I'm saying I'm irritated by people who talk as if they speak for the locals and the victims when they have no connection to either. Can you see how that would be irksome if I started doing that for Londoners, or folks from Dublin did that?

[Darwin]

Well there has certainly been no shortage of opinion coming from New York as far as I can tell. Between the NYT, CNN, MSNBC, FN, and about a zillion blogs we are getting vast volumes of opinion from just about everyone from Bloomberg on down to the plumber's union about the situation. There may be some ineffable, special, ever so piquant quality of information that is the sole province of the Five Boroughs but that seems a fair stretch to put it mildly. In any case all that opinion flooding out of the city is as wildly varied as what has been on display here. A pluperfect appreciation of the nuances of the currents of opinion coursing through the streets of Old New York is not a disqualification from commenting on the situation and neither would such comment, reasonably informed preferably, be out of line regarding the London tube bombings, the Spanish train bombings, or any other event of world import.

[Frosted]

Just looked back over my posts - nope, I never really gave an opinion on it.
All I did was post the news article and wonder why it couldn't be built elsewhere.

The trade centre attacks affected the whole world. Our boys went out too and died in Iraq as a result. We all saw it on television. I visited the burning stumps as part of a PR exercise between the US and the UK.
I think you could get a fair comment from the rest of the world.

Personally I think it stinks - there's my opinion now fella.

[sgreger1]

I dont blame people for acting the way they do towards this. Imagine if we lived in Rome and that we had been at war for a while with the Persians. Then one day they wanted to build a Persian Mosque next door to the Colloseum they bombed which started the whole war. People would be pissed. This is human nature and there is nothing unnatural about these feelings.


In America however, we have to learn to look beyond today's populist opinions of what is good or bad or what we do or don't like, and we need to realize what is at stake here. If we let them build the mosque than property rights stay relevant, the MANY muslims in that area have a place to practice their religion, and worst case scenario Alquaida will claim it as some victory (like they do everything else). Not that bad of a deal really. But if we don't allow it, they get a much greater victory, and America loses yet another piece of itself because the gov can now dictate whether unpopular religions can be practiced in certain areas or not. Also, it would just be another step away from property rights, one of our most sacred freedoms in America that has already all but been lost to government control.


It does not matter if you like Muslims or not. This is a question of whether you honor American values and freedoms or not.

[NonServiam]

I don't really have anything else to add that hasn't already been stated. I think it's offensive, inappropriate, insulting, and downright poor etiquette to build this mosque or any mosque in the immediate area. But, there is no law against it (nor should there be) and it is a freedom granted in this country. I just wonder how long it will take before someone firebombs the joint.