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  • tom502
    Member
    • Feb 2009
    • 8985

    bias?

    I read this article, and if these attackers were white, they'd be charged with a hate crime, but the anti-white bias of the government only charges that crime to whites. -------------------------------------------------

    Attacks against Mexicans inflame tensions in NYC

    By CRISTIAN SALAZAR

    NEW YORK (AP) - When Rodolfo Olmedo was dragged down by a group of men shouting anti-Mexican epithets and bashed over the head with a wooden stick on the street outside his home, he instinctively covered his face to keep from getting disfigured. Blood filled his mouth.

    "I wanted to scream, but I couldn't because of the beating they were giving me," said the 25-year-old baker. Nearly five months later, he is still taking pain medications for his head injuries.

    Recorded by a store's surveillance camera, the assault was the first of 11 suspected anti-Hispanic bias attacks in a Staten Island neighborhood, re-igniting years-old tensions between blacks and Hispanics in New York City's most remote borough.

    Residents of Port Richmond - where an influx of newcomers from Latin America over the past decade has transformed the community - alternately blame the attacks on the economy, unemployment and the debate over Arizona's immigration law.

    And although most of the suspects were described as young black men and investigated for bias crimes, a grand jury has indicted only one of seven people arrested on a hate-crime charge.

    But Isaias Lozano, a day laborer, said he knows why he was attacked and robbed in December by "morenos" - the Spanish word he uses to describe his black neighbors.

    "They hate us because we're Mexicans," he said while sitting at El Centro del Inmigrante, a center for immigrant day workers. "They aren't robbing just anybody."

    Across the United States, the immigration debate plays out in suspicion of outsiders and sometimes escalates into violence. Port Richmond, tucked in a corner of New York City that most visitors never see, is wrestling with the perennial question of how people from different backgrounds can live together and get along.

    Some community leaders here blame the attacks on hoodlums preying on day laborers, who are perceived as easy targets because they often carry cash home from work. Others say the Arizona law is stirring up a climate of intolerance, even these thousands of miles away.

    "It's a cascading effect," said the Rev. Terry Troia, a board member of El Centro del Inmigrante. "There are negative impulses being put out there both nationally and locally. People on the fringe catch a piece of that, and they are acting on it."

    Some of Port Richmond's black residents assert that newcomers' presence touches a nerve. Mike Mason, 47, a teacher who works in New Jersey, said the arrival of Mexican immigrants had changed the texture of the community.

    "America has got to do something as far as immigration goes," he said. "In the morning you can see the streets lined with undocumented workers ... That's always in the back of people's minds."

    Staten Island is a relatively isolated, suburban-like borough of New York City. It is home to nearly 500,000 people, most of whom live in detached homes instead of apartments, need cars to get around and a ferry to get across New York Harbor to Manhattan.

    Between 2000 and 2008, the number of Hispanics living on the island grew roughly 40 percent, according to Census bureau statistics analyzed by City University of New York's Latino Data Project, with much of that growth coming from the Mexican community.

    Many of those began to coalesce around the Port Richmond neighborhood, which had long been predominantly black and low-income. The neighborhood's main commercial thoroughfare, once marked by empty storefronts, suddenly came alive with Mexican businesses selling pinatas, bars playing Spanish-language heavy metal, and grocers stocking chilies and tomatillos. The neighborhood developed a new nickname: "Little Mexico."

    Mexicans soon began reporting that they were attacked by their black neighbors.

    One organization documented 21 assaults against day laborers one summer in 2003. When a day laborer was viciously stabbed and killed two years later, neighbors quickly blamed the black community, until reputed Latin Kings gang members were charged with the man's death.

    In recent months, police have deployed additional foot and mounted patrols, a command post and Mexican-born officers to distribute bilingual fliers with safety tips. The FBI joined in creating a task force to look into civil rights abuses in the neighborhood. Residents have aired grievances at numerous town hall meetings.

    On a recent summer day, Nicomedes Rocha said she was afraid of being targeted by blacks while walking on the street.

    "I have to watch on both sides," said the 33-year-old dishwasher at a local taqueria, who was on her way to work carrying a shoulder bag. "They think I carry money."

    But some black residents said it was wrong to talk about bias as the main motive for the attacks.

    David Johnson, an amateur boxer who has lived in the neighborhood for seven years, blamed the incidents on drug addicts looking to rob people for cash to feed their habits. "They would do that to anybody," he said. "To jump toward bias issues is out of whack."

    Rodolfo Olmedo was beaten and robbed of his cell phone and wallet on April 5. Four suspects have been arrested and charged; police investigated it as a bias crime, but a grand jury indicted the suspects only on robbery and gang assault charges.

    William Smith, a spokesman for the Staten Island district attorney's office, said the attack on Olmedo was retaliatory. The suspects, he said, believed Olmedo had been involved in an earlier altercation.

    Olmedo, who was hospitalized for five days and was briefly in a coma, contends he was targeted because of his ethnicity, not because he had been involved in a related incident or because the suspects wanted to steal his belongings.

    After all, Olmedo said, they didn't take an expensive watch that he was wearing.

    "It was," he said in Spanish, "a hate crime."

    http://apnews.myway.com/article/20100816/D9HKHJ480.html
  • RobsanX
    Member
    • Aug 2008
    • 2030

    #2
    I disagree with all hate crime charges. It's too much like "thought crime"

    Charge them with the assault, but leave the thought crime out of it...

    Comment

    • tom502
      Member
      • Feb 2009
      • 8985

      #3
      Oh I agree, but the point is, if it was gangs of whites doing this, you know they'd be getting the hate crime charge, but since they are black gangs, no one wants to use that charge.

      Comment

      • bipolarbear1968
        Member
        • Mar 2010
        • 1074

        #4
        Crime is what it is...a crime. No matter the color.

        Comment

        • RobsanX
          Member
          • Aug 2008
          • 2030

          #5
          The stats do seem to bear out what you are saying. IMO this is no better than the disproportionate number of minorities in prison.

          http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2008/victims.html

          Comment

          • sgreger1
            Member
            • Mar 2009
            • 9451

            #6
            Originally posted by RobsanX View Post
            I disagree with all hate crime charges. It's too much like "thought crime"

            Charge them with the assault, but leave the thought crime out of it...
            Wow i'm impressed RobansX! I agree. While the article clearly sounds like it is of a "hate crime" nature, I agree that we need to clearly define what laws are being broken. If you hit someone, that's battery. If you burn someones house down, that's arson. While I understand the concept behind hate crime laws, it doens't serve it's intended purpose because it creates a defacto "protected" group, which often times only apply to certain races. When white people get shot in compton, theres no hate crime charges most of the time, it's just written off as gan violence or robbery.


            Equal playing field for all is the way it should be.

            Also, we can't expect this not to happen, this is human nature. In this story, a predominantly black neighborhood in one year turns into "little Mexico", and the mexican gangs started coming in and killing people etc etc. There is going to be tension between the two groups for obvious reasons. So while it's terrible, I think it's also kind of unnavoidable. It's really more about poverty than it is about race.

            Comment

            • myuserid
              Member
              • Jun 2010
              • 1645

              #7
              Originally posted by RobsanX View Post
              I disagree with all hate crime charges. It's too much like "thought crime"

              Charge them with the assault, but leave the thought crime out of it...
              Originally posted by tom502 View Post
              Oh I agree, but the point is, if it was gangs of whites doing this, you know they'd be getting the hate crime charge, but since they are black gangs, no one wants to use that charge.
              I agree with both of these.

              Comment

              • RobsanX
                Member
                • Aug 2008
                • 2030

                #8
                I'm certainly no fan of hate crimes, and I do think they exist. I'm against making special laws against them on principle.

                Comment

                • ChaoticGemini
                  Member
                  • Jun 2010
                  • 564

                  #9
                  Originally posted by RobsanX View Post
                  I'm certainly no fan of hate crimes, and I do think they exist. I'm against making special laws against them on principle.
                  ^^Exactly!!

                  Comment

                  • CoderGuy
                    Member
                    • Jul 2009
                    • 2679

                    #10
                    Originally posted by RobsanX View Post
                    I'm certainly no fan of hate crimes, and I do think they exist. I'm against making special laws against them on principle.
                    They DO exist. Husband beats up his wife; assault. Someone in a bar says something stupid to your girlfriend and you beat them; assault. Group of guys say, "Hey lets go beat up Mexicans"; hate crime. Group of guys say, "Hey let's go beat up fags"; hate crime.

                    When people do these things purely on the basis of ethnicity or sexual preference or religion it goes beyond simple assault. When the justification (and acceptance by the perpetrators) is that they are "doing the right thing" because that's what they believe in it's different than defending someone's honor or slapping your ho or straightening out your kids.

                    As for special laws, I am torn there. However, you have to send a message to these groups of idiots that their justification isn't a reason to do it and I think that is the purpose of the hate crime laws.

                    Just my 2 cents.

                    Comment

                    • ratcheer
                      Member
                      • Jul 2010
                      • 621

                      #11
                      But, if hate crime laws do exist (and they do), they should be applied fairly across all groups.

                      Tim

                      Comment

                      • CoderGuy
                        Member
                        • Jul 2009
                        • 2679

                        #12
                        Originally posted by ratcheer View Post
                        But, if hate crime laws do exist (and they do), they should be applied fairly across all groups.

                        Tim
                        I do agree with that. I also agree that some groups should not get more special treatment than others (guess that's the same thing). All I was saying is there is a difference between a crime and a hate crime.

                        Comment

                        • sgreger1
                          Member
                          • Mar 2009
                          • 9451

                          #13
                          Originally posted by CoderGuy View Post
                          They DO exist. Husband beats up his wife; assault. Someone in a bar says something stupid to your girlfriend and you beat them; assault. Group of guys say, "Hey lets go beat up Mexicans"; hate crime. Group of guys say, "Hey let's go beat up fags"; hate crime.

                          When people do these things purely on the basis of ethnicity or sexual preference or religion it goes beyond simple assault. When the justification (and acceptance by the perpetrators) is that they are "doing the right thing" because that's what they believe in it's different than defending someone's honor or slapping your ho or straightening out your kids.

                          As for special laws, I am torn there. However, you have to send a message to these groups of idiots that their justification isn't a reason to do it and I think that is the purpose of the hate crime laws.

                          Just my 2 cents.



                          A valid point, except laws tend to not serve the purpose they were created for.

                          Best example:

                          Im at a bar, I get drunk and beat up a guy; assault
                          Im at a bar, I get drunk and beat up a guy, who's gay; hate crime.

                          Because he will get a good lawyer and will try to spin it to the jury that I only hit him because he was gay, or that the fact he was gay was one of several reasons I hit him.

                          It creates a defacto protected class whith special privaledges while leaving everyon else out to dry.

                          Scenario 2:

                          If it's mardi gras and an old guy is walking around naked rubbing on people, someone comes and knocks him out; assault.

                          If it's a gay pride parade and an old guy is walking around naked rubbing on people, and someone comes and knocks him out = hate crime.


                          I know it's only intended for crimes that are committed based soely on race/sexual orientation, but the reality is that in court it just adds protection for those who belong to this elite class of protected individuals. If a french guy beats me up at a bar, I can't say it's a hate crime because he REALLY just beat me up because he didn't like Americans. That's because i'm not in the special group with more rights and protections than the rest of us.

                          Comment

                          • sgreger1
                            Member
                            • Mar 2009
                            • 9451

                            #14
                            Originally posted by CoderGuy View Post
                            I do agree with that. I also agree that some groups should not get more special treatment than others (guess that's the same thing). All I was saying is there is a difference between a crime and a hate crime.

                            No actually theres not. If a guy beats someone up, it's assault. If a guy beats someone up because he's a black homosexual jewish rabbi, that's not a hate crime. It's still assault, he got beat up. Does the reason he got beat up change the crime? I don't think it should, because where does it stop? If the reason I beat up some kid in school was because he was stupid, does that make it a hate crime, because I hated that he was stupid?


                            We need clearly defined laws such as "If you hit someone, it's assult" not "Well if they were gay than you get in more trouble, if they are white than you just get in regular trouble, and if they are black but straight you get in medium trouble." It's just complexity for nothing.


                            The reason why someone commits a crime doesn't matter, it's the actual crime that matters. Murder is murder, why you did it doesn't matter.

                            No protected classes. Equal rights for all. No special elite groups that get privaledge in the eyes of the state over us "regular" people.

                            Comment

                            • CoderGuy
                              Member
                              • Jul 2009
                              • 2679

                              #15
                              Originally posted by sgreger1 View Post
                              No protected classes. Equal rights for all. No special elite groups that get privaledge in the eyes of the state over us "regular" people.
                              I would agree with this if the people that committed the hate crimes also believed that way. Unfortunately they don't. To them it isn't equal rights for all. And therein lies the problem. Someone needs to protect those who cannot protect themselves. People should not be afraid to go out of the house just because of the color of their skin or how they live their lives.

                              Comment

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