France successfully bans the Burqua

[sgreger1]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe...ban/index.html


The gist the decision is that French society is built around the values of liberté, égalité, fraternité (liberty, equality, brotherhood). The burqa is fundamentally not compatible with these values, since it places the woman in a position of non-equality (and non-freedom, depending on your point of view, but that's more controversial).

And it's well within the right of a country to act to preserve its core values. If that means expelling or sanctioning residents who don't adhere to those core values, so be it. The law doesn't prohibit mosques or any specific religion. It prohibits behavior that it construes as being fundamentally incompatible to what the country wants itself to be.




"French people back the burqa ban by a margin of more than four to one...Clear majorities also backed burqa bans in Germany, Britain and Spain, while two out of three Americans opposed it, the survey found."




Edit: I'm not sure of the specifics here. If the law bans women from being FORCED to wear a burqua by their religious husbands, than I support this 100%. If it says you just can't wear a burqua, than that in itself violates your freedom to choose what you wear. I know a lot of women who are indian for example, and they WANT to wear the full body garbs they wear (which are hella cool btw). Not allowing them to do so is unjust. But if they are being FORCED to as a means of oppression, than I am against that. Hopefully they got it right in France.

[tom502]

France is literally over-run with non-assimilating Muslims. It's as if they have taken over large segments of their nation, and have highly increased their crime rate, and have led riots, etc. France now, is what the US will soon be, if we don't take measures to protect our culture. When foriegners move into a host nation, they are to adapt to the nation and assimilate. If they refuse, they should be removed.

[sgreger1]

I agree, that banning burqua's is a weird move. It's like a symbolic law, that doesn't deal with the real cause. When a muslim woman gets raped, even in the western countries, she's often shunned from her own community.
I think it's time people start being honest about these issues.

• There is a lot of racism that is fueling these kinds of laws.
• Muslims in Europe are more traditional that muslims in Turkey, Marocco and Iran. Much like how dutch folks in the states hold on to old cultural values that no longer exist in Holland.
• Social and physical blackmail seems to be how muslim culture protects its identity in Europe. Just like a cult.
• The position of woman is not equal to that of men, in Muslim culture.
• The monopoly of the state on violence, the corner stone of a state, is not experienced within Muslim culture, within Europe. Honor killings, cultural blackballing provide a stronger deterrent than jailtime.
• Muslims do not accept the state as the highest authority in this realm. Rather they refer to (local) religious leaders.
• The western only cares about this stuff, because of terrorism and xenophobism. It's not a true concern for the oppression of muslims by their own culture.
• The few muslim women who step up and say that they are being oppressed have to fear for their lives and need bodyguards 24/7. Like Ayaan Hirschi Ali.
• This has nothing to do with religion. The koran does not state that men should force their interpretation of morality onto woman and then use a different scale for themselves.
• There is a lot more physical violence towards woman and children in muslim culture. Fear and violence plays a much strong role in establishing cultural values than in some other cultures.

And to be honest. All of that is a big ****ing problem. And i'm all for us working this all out. I don't think, this is intrinsincly a problem with religion. I don't even think this would have gotten as much attention, if wasn't for the fear of terrorism. But that doesn't make any less real.
It sucks to be muslim. It sucks more to be a muslim woman. And that's just not fair.

[sgreger1]

Okay, i'm going to completely derail this thread before it even begins just for one moment since i have nowhere else to post this and Tom was the first post here.


Tom, remember a while ago we were talking about how they found radiation and signs of nuclear activity in different regions around the world? And some conspiracy sites concluded that it was because ancient man was using nuclear weapons or something? I found the reason, or at least an explanation.

In toda'ys Astronomy Pic of The Day from NASA (APOD), they show the remnant of a 2 billion year old nuclear reactor they found in Africa in the 70's. Long story short, a long time ago uranium deposits were dense enough to sustain an ongoing nuclear reaction. Since then, the uranium has burned itself to a low enough density that we no longer see these nuclear reactors functioning on earth, and instead just find scant uranium deposits.





Explanation: The remnants of nuclear reactors nearly two billion years old were found in the 1970s in Africa. These reactors are thought to have occurred naturally. No natural reactors exist today, as the relative density of fissile uranium has now decayed below that needed for a sustainable reaction. Pictured above is Fossil Reactor 15, located in Oklo, Gabon. Uranium oxide remains are visible as the yellowish rock. Oklo by-products are being used today to probe the stability of the fundamental constants over cosmological time and distance scales and to develop more effective means for disposing of human-manufactured nuclear waste.




Okay, back on topic. Or whatever, talk about baseball for all I care, this be snuson baby!

[tom502]

The Great Pyramid at Giza

Abstract: The complexity, precision and size of the Great Pyramid are contrasted to the simplicity of pharaohs� tombs. It is proposed that it is a plutonium mill. Its perfection of construction and choice of materials are compared against all other pyramids. The current history of plutonium production is related. The internal geometry of the pyramid is given correspondence to the process steps of breeding plutonium, separating plutonium from other material, disposing of radioactive waste, using water and producing hydroelectric power. The practical value of plutonium and the economic justification of the pyramid are discussed. Later attempts by the Egyptians to recreate the power and value of the pyramid are analyzed. Scientific methods for testing whether or not nuclear fission occurred within the pyramid are defined.

http://www.nuclearpyramid.com/great_pyramid.php

[raptor]

The French government has a history of dislike towards Muslims: they didn't support Bosniak independence in the early 90s because they literally feared a Muslim nation in Europe, despite there not being any sort of extremism at the time and Bosniaks being legitimate civilized and peaceful Europeans (now there is extremist elements as a result of the wars, surprise surprise). However this law can be interpreted 10 different ways, be it racist, or for national security, or for intolerance or for protecting women's rights. Let the French deal with the consequences.

[truthwolf1]

They will outbreed the French within time. I think it is a 4-1 ratio.
It is a lost country and they should of had more stringent immigrant controls.

[tom502]

Maybe LePen will take office.

[sgreger1]

The Great Pyramid at Giza

Abstract: The complexity, precision and size of the Great Pyramid are contrasted to the simplicity of pharaohs� tombs. It is proposed that it is a plutonium mill. Its perfection of construction and choice of materials are compared against all other pyramids. The current history of plutonium production is related. The internal geometry of the pyramid is given correspondence to the process steps of breeding plutonium, separating plutonium from other material, disposing of radioactive waste, using water and producing hydroelectric power. The practical value of plutonium and the economic justification of the pyramid are discussed. Later attempts by the Egyptians to recreate the power and value of the pyramid are analyzed. Scientific methods for testing whether or not nuclear fission occurred within the pyramid are defined.

http://www.nuclearpyramid.com/great_pyramid.php

Holy shit Tom. True or not, that was the most intiresting pyramid related paper I have ever read. It was well researched and not written in the normal whacky conspiracy theory manner. Bravo! That is absolutely fascinating. Though quite a stretch, it does make a great point. Anyone intirested in alternative theories to what the pyramids were for should seriousely read this, it is outstanding.

[Jwalker]

Since it's that you can't be forced, not that you can't wear it what's the idea are you going to have the police ask women wearing the burkas hey do you want to wear this or is your family making you? Good way to start another riot I guess.

Edit: I read it more, they enforce it on women wearing it 150 euro fine, forcing a woman to wear a burqa is a 15,000 euro fine. Eighty percent of the population supported the measure. They did a poll in other countries and the only country where a supermajority didn't support a ban on the burqa was the U.S. where two thirds of the population would oppose it.

[sgreger1]

Since it's that you can't be forced, not that you can't wear it what's the idea are you going to have the police ask women wearing the burkas hey do you want to wear this or is your family making you? Good way to start another riot I guess.

I think it's more of a symbolic law than anything. I suppose how it's supposed to work is that if anyone is being forced, they can now call the police and report it. But women are so heavily oppressed in the muslim culture that they would not dare try such a thing. In a culture where families will kill or shun their own daughter if she is raped, you can't expect them to call the police.

[tom502]

It makes sense to me. Nothing else does. And while reading this, it made me think the Ark of the Covenant may have been holding some type of nuclear power.

[sgreger1]

It makes sense to me. Nothing else does. And while reading this, it made me think the Ark of the Covenant may have been holding some type of nuclear power.

As far as alternative theories are concerned, I think that is the best researched one i've heard yet, and best written for that matter. It's quite an extravegent claim, but it certainly fits more in the realm of possibility than most of the other stuff i've read. And I don't completely discount the official history, but historians are overlooking some seemingly big holes such as why did the egyptians get the pyramids right the first time, then suddenly try to duplicate it over and over again getting worse each time. I mean it's kind of weird that as an empire grows, their technology would decline, don't you think? Then, they accomplished something of that magnitude and never even wrote down how they did it? I dunno man, seems kinda fishy.

[shikitohno]

sgreger, this law bans the voluntary wearing of the burqa as well. Since the rest of you seem to have missed that part, thought I'd throw it out there. Even if you want to wear one, in public it's a 150€ fine.

[GoVegan]

I think part of this may be backlash. We have people suing the DMV here because they don't want to take off their burqa for their driver's license or ID picture. We have parents suing school districts so their kids can bring a knife, which is a religious symbol, to school. Enough is enough. I don't agree with the fine over wearing a burqa in public but I can see why this has happened. If you keep sticking things in someones face long enough, they will eventually throw it back at you.