France successfully bans the Burqua

[texastorm]

It all depends on how you phrase it, but I can make it sound just as crazy either way.

Option A)
As a red blooded American I support the right of the religious to keep them women in their place. Muslim women give up their rights by staying Muslim.

Option B)
I dont support religious freedom and women should not be allowed to were the burqa in public.



You just cant win when both viewpoints are partially right (or wrong as phrased above)!

[tom502]

I think the Klan is not allowed to use the face covering in their marches anymore. Yet the anarchists often wear ski masks in their criminal riots.

[sgreger1]

sgreger, this law bans the voluntary wearing of the burqa as well. Since the rest of you seem to have missed that part, thought I'd throw it out there. Even if you want to wear one, in public it's a 150€ fine.

Then it's a step backwards. Not allowing certain clothes is the equivalent of having a state sponsored uniform. Of course the french would **** it up. I can see why they are doing this though, they are trying to get rid of the muslims since they let them all in thinking everyone would get along, but as always they did not get along and they realized that islam is incompatible with freedom or modern society/democracy.

[tom502]

Covering your face is not a good thing. Try putting a bag on your head, and telling people you practice the bag-head religion, and go to a bank and try to withdraw money or get a drivers license. Or see what happens if driving and police pull you over, maybe you can secretly video it.

[ChaoticGemini]

I am mixed on this issue. While I understand some women choose to cover their head the same way others choose to wear a ponytail, it does raise questions on the other side too. As waa pointed out, what use is an ID if you can't see the person in the picture.

I think freedom of religion is not just about practicing whatever you want and putting up with other people's religion, it is also assimilating to the culture you're in. Now, I don't entirely agree with France's reasoning, but I do believe they have every right to defend their culture and society.

When I went to school in Germany and the entire gymnasium walked to the church for some blessing, it would have been inappropriate to start screaming religious freedom. Hell, for that matter, my friends spanned the gamut of belief and we all went through it and skipped the communion part. When someone wishes me a merry christmas I don't jump down their throat and scream at them for being religiously insensitive. I find that ridiculous. I simply treat it as if they said 'best wishes' or 'have a nice day' and move on. In asia, I have stayed at temples even though I am not their religion. I used the "prayer time" for quite contemplation. Some of the best art I have seen was in Italian catholic churches. I don't stay for a service. Notice, I said I don't follow any of these religions, but they were the culture where I was at and I showed proper respect and was treated courteously in return. In many situations like this, someone may ask why I'm not taking part and I will tell them that I don't believe in it and they let it go. The problem with some of these things is people trying to take things to an extreme and citing their religious freedom supersedes everyone around them. It would be like me going to the store nude and claiming it is my religious freedom. There has to be a line somewhere, I'm just not sure where it is and a lot of recent "religious freedoms" are clearly playing in that grey area. [note the other thread about the church of body piercing]

[shikitohno]

I agree that a line has to be drawn somewhere. Tolerance and respect is a two way street, which is what a lot of these Muslim immigrants don't seem to get. You want to pray fives times a day, and three of them are at work? Fine. You me to build you a special room adhering to Islamic requirements for a prayer room (according to your imam), at great expense when you're the only Muslim bloke who works for me? F**k off. They'd have a lot less bad publicity there if they occasionally gave a little ground, instead of constantly saying "Me!Me!Me!"

[sgreger1]

Religious freedom is fine. The line is simple, it cant interfere with shit like your driverse license. What if the conservatives started a religion where they were not allowed to pay taxes or that they were mandated by god to open cary firearms. The liberals would be all over them. Same with muslims, you can practice your religion, but not to an extent that it makes orderly society not able to function.

Right now they deserve any bad press they get, there is a reason people hate on them so much. They take it to the extreme. No burquas on your DL photo, you cant force your boss to give you 5 15 minute breaks at work to pray, etc etc.

[tom502]

Ethnocentrism is not a good thing, in our modern world, but culturocentrism is a must if you wish to preserve your nation's identity.

[amdusias]

I know this is old news, but here is a video I found you may like:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...st.html?ref=nf

[Roo]

Is France distinguishing between a burqua and other full or partial face covering attire like a naqib? I was just in Paris a few weeks ago and I saw lots of women wearing the naqib (ninja-style with only eyes showing). Granted, most of these women I saw were at the airport in the queue for our flight bound for Doha, Qatar, but I did see others on the Metro. What I found interesting and a bit odd is that in Paris and in the airport in Doha, then in Malaysia I often saw women covered from head to toe walking around with their husbands who sported short goatees, cargo shorts, and Nikes. Anyway, I do not support the banning of any established religious attire. I understand both arguments, and I just don't support it. Governments telling you what you can and cannot wear is ****ed up, especially if what you choose to wear is your normal, everyday attire back home, and you do indeed choose to wear it.

Link to naqibs and also a pretty interesting site for Islamic attire shopping. Get your girl a sweet Halloween costume while they're hot:
http://www.al-mujalbaba.com/niqaabs.html

Edit: If anyone is interested, check out pics of the Tuareg people from the Western Sahara. The men cover their faces instead of the women. It's not an Islamic thing -- there is practicality in covering your face when you live in a sandy desert under a hot sun in 120 degree temperatures.

[tom502]

I think it weird how the women claim it's their Islam to dress like this, yet there is no Islamic injunction to do so. And the men I see with them and usually shaven and wearing "western" clothes, yet the hadith specifically says not to shave the beard. It's like these people are idiots and just make it up as they go along.

[snusgetter]

This just in...

~
France's constitutional panel OKs burqa ban
Opponents say they could take law to the European Court of Human Rights

PARIS — France's constitutional watchdog on Thursday endorsed a divisive law forbidding face-covering Islamic veils anywhere in public, but expressed concern about applying it in places of worship such as a mosque.

The decision of the Constitutional Council removes a key hurdle for the law, overwhelmingly approved in both houses of parliament last month, despite concerns from some Muslims that it will further stigmatize France's No. 2 religion.

The law, the first of its kind in western Europe, forbids veils such as the niqab or burqa anywhere in public and imposes a euro150 fine ($210) on anyone wearing one — and a euro30,000 ($41,700) fine on anyone who forces a woman to wear one. Only some 2,000 women in France are estimated to wear such veils, but proponents see the law as a symbolic defense of French values such as women's rights and secularism.

While the bill was still in discussion stages earlier this year, the council warned that a blanket ban on all veils in the streets of France might not past constitutional muster.

But after reviewing the law, the council said in a ruling Thursday that "the law forbidding concealing the face in public conforms to the Constitution."


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[Roo]

A "blanket ban" on burquas? lol

[sgreger1]

A "blanket ban" on burquas? lol

lolol, ziiiiiing!


Yah at first I thought this was going to be a law protecting freedom and individual liberty, where it bans men from FORCING women to wear full-face veils. Now that it has changed to "Gov gets to decide what religious garb you do/don't wear" I think this is shit and france sucks.

(Why does it always ending up with france sucking?)

/Don't worry frenchies, were next in line i'm sure.

[lxskllr]

I'm conflicted on this. I'm against government intrusion on individual rights, but I'm all for poking Muslims with a stick. I'm glad it's in France. If this happened over here, I think my head would explode :^D