France successfully bans the Burqua

[sgreger1]

For what it's worth, the full-on Burqa is only found in certain areas of Afghanistan and the so-called Frontier Provinces of NW Pakistan. Their use is in rapid decline after the fall of the Taliban. On a side note, my buddy who's been "spending time" over there brought me back a Bottle Burqa. It's pink and fits nicely over a bottle of booze lol.

The niqab or face covering common in the Gulf States has been reportedly in use since long before Islam. As I mentioned before, a full face covering comes in handy when 40 mph winds are blowing sand and 120 degree air in your face all day.

And snussles, lol do you think women who voluntarily cover their faces want your horny ass learing and gawking at their curves? Like if a ban is in place these same ladies are going to strip down to bikinis? Lol. There are many places, such as the oft-feared Iran for example, where woman merelý cover their hair and wear tight pants and heels and shit if that's your thing. Just don't go there and hit on them, you won't come back alive.

I read a very interesting book on this subject, which spoke mainly from a historical (and non-political) perspective, and a big part of the book was about the evolution of head-ware and garb of those in the middle east. It was called "2,000 years of the middle east" or something along those lines. Anyways, it's point was that styles have changed a lot in the middle east for a plethora of reasons, almost none of those reasons being religious, but they all maintained the general concept of covering either the face and neck or entire body because well, um, IT'S THE ****ING DESERT. Even in the army they issue us "muslim" headdresses and gear (even terrorist masks like bank robbers use!) because it is so efficient. When there is that much dry heat and hot sun beating down, you don't want it on your neck or anywhere around your face. It's very efficient and is a low cost way of saving yourself from the heat, almost any rag will do. Plus, for those who don't know, the sand storms in that region are killer. The worst I ever had was when the chinooks would land 20m away to pick us up, and the blades would kick the sand up to 100mph onto the back of your neck, and we were in fully bloused (tucked in) combat fatigues . It's like razor blades. The middle east experiences sand storms like you saw in that movie "The Mummy", they are literally brick walls of sand, and only an idiot would be caught outside with western clothing.


Also, we must realize that (at least for men), the headdress that makes someone look like a terrorist actually has a deep cultural significance. For example, those who have been on pilgrimage wear a different style/colored headdress than those who have not. It's like a status symbol. Then the sheiks of course wear a different kind of cloths because they are the nobility class in middle eastern culture. (not sure if I spelled sheiks right, I mean the religious leaders/preachers, not the other religion)

Anyways, I am not ignorant to the reasons why these things are worn, and I am aware of their cultural significance. Additionally, I am aware that many (perhaps most) of the women wear that by choice because the secular concept of women showing off their body is a new concept and many in the middle east are still not comfortable with it. Think of 1910 America, where women had their role and were expected to dress "appropriately" and stay in their place. It's essentially the same thing. Really the middle east isn't far behind because we were doing that in America as late as the 50's and 60's, and even still today in some areas.




I support upholding cultural tradition. they should have the option to wear it. I am opposed to husbands forcing it on their wives etc, but again it's really not my place to intervene in the cultural/moral boundaries which have existed for thousands of years.


Isn't it Ironic that places like Iraq where literally the birthplace of civilization, the crowning achievements of man, and yet now it has been reduced to little more that a desert with hookah smoking nomads, terrorists, and young GI's occupying it? America will do well to keep that in mind. There have been many larger empires and greater forces that have fallen into those sands before us. To think we are invincible is naive and reckless.


But still, as Lx said, I endorse anything that pokes muslims with a stick.

[tom502]

Literally being in the desert wind may have a reason for a full body bag, but strolling the mall does not. I think it's a way of controlling the women, by isolating them in a black bag, even if they are in public. Of course the bruises don't show too. And a UK Cleric said there can be no rape in marriage. What irritates me, is these women saying it's their Islam, as sgreg points out, it's not. Are they that ignorant themselves, or afraid, and use that as their ignorant reason? There is no Quranic injunction to wear a mask, or hadithic, that I know of. And it's very odd, when I see these burqa'd women walking with their handler, I mean husband, whos is clean shaven and wearing western clothes, when there is a hadithic injunction for men to have a beard. It's like Islam is just retarded, and they just make it all up as they think, but it's obviously all a ploy to subjugate their women.

[Roo]

Nice post sgreger. I'm surprised some of you Big-Government haters support a motion to allow governments to tell you it's illegal to cover your face when you're out minding your own business. Sure, for IDs or if you get pulled over, or at the aiport or bank, you need to show yourself. But out and about? According to this law, I can't don a mask in Paris for the hell of it. "Dude, don't put that mask on, it's illegal". Masks are fun. Do we want that here, or would the law only apply to Muslim face coverings? Where do you draw the line? It's religious discrimination, plain and simple.

Some of you act like this face-covering is a personal annoyance. How many veiled Muslims are you encountering? I've never seen one in Seattle, not even once. Another side note: imagine the irony if we outlawed face-veils with the bizarre exception of letting our daughters wear one on their wedding day...

[truthwolf1]

We have a huge Somali/Eithiopian population in Mpls. second largerst in the USA and it is very common if not even a everyday occurrence to see them in traditional dress but not so much the actual full facial burqa.

Over these years it has been a little bit of a culture crash between the predominant Scandanavian white's/and black population here. It does come down to religious practices which have caused the most heat.

[tom502]

But these "practices", are they religious? Or wrongly percieved as such, by both sides? I do think integration and assimilation must be expected for foreigners into their host nation. They came here, and need to adapt to our ways. if I went there, I would be expected to adapt to their ways.

[Snussles]

But these "practices", are they religious?

Obviously they are religious. How else can you convince such a large group that a certain practice is the "right" and or "correct" thing to do if not threat them with things like damnation, things that are just so out of the scope of our own minds. I really doubt it was just a bunch of people that decided upon such practices without any use of religious teachings, what would that be like "Wear this cloth over your whole body....or you...will not get any candy?" I mean, in order for such practices to be so effective, you need some element of supernatural fear. That by doing these particular practices you are pleasing someone of some greater power. Why else would people perform these practices, just for sheer fun?

[truthwolf1]

But these "practices", are they religious? Or wrongly percieved as such, by both sides? I do think integration and assimilation must be expected for foreigners into their host nation. They came here, and need to adapt to our ways. if I went there, I would be expected to adapt to their ways.

Have not heard much lately on this one, but a paramedic friend of mine was telling me that years ago they were still cutting out young girls clitoris's out in garages.
When things went real bad is when he would show up, but nobody ever talks to press charges.
Arranged marriages are still going on, fasting (which impairs driving) and has caused thousands of accidents, cab drivers discriminating against people who use alcohol/or come out of a bar, or are even carrying a bottle, refusal to touch pork (even if that is what you are paid to do at WALMART).

Some of the things I have directly noticed, but for the most part the second wave is assimilating much better.

Here is a link from the Militant Islam Monitor

http://www.militantislammonitor.org/article/id/3983

Somali desert culture very oppressive to women

Once they have been granted their refugee status, Somali women sometimes go back to Somalia to have their daughters circumcised, even though they previously claimed it was too dangerous for them to travel to Somalia. These women and their daughters are usually readmitted to the Netherlands. More than 95 percent of the Somali women are circumcised. Somali culture is extremely violent. Honor crimes are quite common. In September 2008, a Somali immigrant in the Dutch city of Apeldoorn stabbed his Somali wife to death in the presence of his children. 28 It was a typical act of revenge or honor crime because the Somali woman was too independent minded – something just not done in Somali Muslim culture which is very oppressive to women.

Virtually all marriages are arranged marriages. It is the clan or the father who decides who may marry whom. "I had run away when I was about thirteen years old because my father tried to marry me off to an old man," writes Waris Dirie, one of the few Somali women who dared to resist her father's will. "In Somalia men must pay a bride price for a virgin and this balding old man leaned on a walking stick and offered several camels for me. A woman doesn't have much choice in the matter." 29 Somali culture is a backward desert culture hostile to Western values and the emancipation of women:


"Men decide when a marriage is over and the woman can loose her children and be left to beg without any other way to support herself. A man can say 'I divorce you' to his wife, her family and his family. If the families cannot get him to reconsider, then the marriage is over." 30

[tom502]

I agree, in a sense, but it is debateable, and many Muslims do not agree with burquas and face veils, because, there is no religious injunction to do such. Not in the Quran, or hadith. There is an injunction in the hadith for men to have a beard, but look at all the Muslim men that don't do that.