Detox Diets

[devilock76]

I'm not saying all modern medicine is bad. There are way too many factors that will play into the average life expectancy and I don't believe that's a valid argument. Its the fact that many americans receive medicine unnecessarily and blindly accept anything their doctor suggests.

Exactly my point of why anecdotal evidence is no good, too many variables. Thank you for the assist!

How can you compare the organs of animals that are adapted to eating raw foods to a human?

The point was obviously not to legitimately compare those two, but to relate it to the "don't knock it till you try it" crud through a mixture of rhetoric and snark. For that the comparison is just fine since I can make just as many wild claims with no evidence.

So if something hasn't been proved effective through scientific studies yet, it is false?

No, if something hasn't been proved it should be approached with caution and suspicion and someone shouldn't be making claims that recommend it to someone else. Especially with no medical training and no knowledge of the persons other medical conditions. The suggestion of fasting to a Type I diabetic using an insulin pump could actually kill them. Would you want to be the one suggesting a death sentence to someone, online or otherwise? You also continue to think that my position is "Go Big Pharma", it is not, it is "How about some good science to back your claims". Whatever you can say about Pharma they are regulated to conduct clinical trials, they often find ways to slip things by (e.g. Cialis) but at least they have to do it. The holistic approaches don't have to, usually because they do nothing either way so they might as well be considered innocuous. But I promise you this, if a DR. recommended someone to fast, and they died due to the fast, there would be a good law suit.

I was in a bad mental state a couple years ago, trust me it's not fun to be a sophomore in college and not be able to drink alcohol or socialize.

<sarcasm>Yeah drinking always helped my grades in college</sarcasm>

Your bodily functions are not equivalent to a cars. Like I said nutrients are stored in your tissues and these are the ones accessed when you start fasting. So you are getting these nutrients without eating foods and therefore are saving energy.

Actually yes they are from a very basic thermo dynamics view. And of course your explanation as to why shows a lack of understanding or intentional obfuscation. The body doesn't store energy IN your tissues, it IS your tissues. In short the body will consume them to make up the energy deficit if it can. The tissues are effectively destroyed. And the body will get that from more than just the fat cells.

Paragraphs just for you! people like you that won't open up their minds for one moment really irk me. I dont have blind adherence to anything, people that live every day listening to what their dr.s tell them are the ones who are blind. I don't believe that dr.s are evil, but do realize that many are misinformed and only know how to "heal" through the use of a pill. It is the pharmaceutical companies that are evil . Notice how doctors never suggest an alternative herbal medicine because companies can't patent natural products and make profit. This is why the EA is trying to ban all herbal supplements so people will be forced to use chemicals that can be patented. Look it up. It's not about treating symptoms, it's about eliminating the underlying cause for these symptoms which modern medicine rarely does.

Paragraphs are just good writing style. If you don't care enough to effectively communicate your point why should anyone care enough to try to read it? My mind isn't closed, in fact it is openly asking you to show some proof for your claims. Your mind seems closed to the fact that what worked for you may not have worked for others and that you have no idea of all the variables in play to accurately assess if it really was the fasting that was the solution. Again why anecdotal evidence is no good, human's in general just suck at determining causality, especially when it comes to our own conditions. That is why the scientific method is what it is to help mitigate that. It isn't perfect but it is better than 1st person observation in the vacuum of any experimentation.

You again are maintaining the false assumption that I support big pharma or the there is a pill for everything theory of medicine. You know if you can't read what I am actually saying why should I bother reading what you are saying?

Oh and get a better doctor, a good doctor will recommend all sorts of options. If they are known to work. Like say fish oil for cholesterol issues (not enough good cholesterol).

Do you really think all the symptoms that I have eliminated are a fabrication of my mind. The relief my father gets for his bad knees by using celery seed extract must also be a placebo (i have also helped him change his diet supplements are usually not enough alone) . I would never suggest something I wasn't sure about and only hope people explore alternatives because of my natural compassion for my brethren.

Short answer, I don't know, but the fact remains is that you can't PROVE they aren't a fabrication in your mind, so you aren't sure about it, you just choose that action A led to result B while tossing out all actions and results C-Z because you feel they aren't relevant. Here in lies the one difference where the pharmaceutical industry has the holistic approach beat. There is clinical trial data to back their claims. Yeah they are big industry and make many poor choices but they gotta at least test something works. I referenced Cialis earlier. They tested that it works for most people, they proved that, and have the data to back it up to go with all the people that say it works from their experience. However when they did the initial clinical trials they intentionally excluded people with certain depressive conditions. This ended up hiding a major side effect. They possibly guessed it was there, or knew, criminal if they did know. Especially considering that it has been proven that depression and addiction often go hand in hand.

Herein lies the way I look at holistic and big pharma differently. Big Pharma, if they tell me something, I know they have the data to back it up, and I can be reasonably assured from that clinical trial work that the product will work for me (unless I am an exclusion) for the period they tested. What I don't know is possibly the longer term impact as well as side effects they don't know about. So in short typically I can trust what they tell me but have to be skeptical of what they aren't telling me. The holistic approach however I don't have the evidence to backup either what they are telling me or what they aren't. There is no clinical trial, not mandated, and the rare independent studies are often contradictory or inconclusive. And make no mistake, both big pharma and alternative medicine are big business.

So let us take fasting. Fasting is not eating, not eating, in extreme cases has been proven to cause serious health issues, you know like death. Of course most fasts are short so that is usually not a concern for the average person. But still it is a technique that can have bad results. I mean I don't have to work too hard to prove that if you stop eating, and it goes on long enough you will die. What I don't have is proof that any short term fast will create a gain worthy of even walking that line. And that is in effect all I am asking you for. You already linked one study, at some point I will have to read through it. The only thing I have shot down since then is the claims you are making that read to me that your results where not only directly linked to such actions but can be universally applied.

Ken

P.S. Sorry I had to clip some of the quotes to what I was replying to but the forum said the post was too long.

[tom502]

I wonder who'd win if Jesus and Hercules had a grappling match?

You can not eat till death, but one can eat themself to death as well.

[devilock76]

I wonder who'd win if Jesus and Hercules had a grappling match?

You can not eat till death, but one can eat themself to death as well.

True. Anything can be bad to extremes.

Ken

[captncaveman]

I like peaches!