Is American dip safe?

[Snusify]

Recent studies have found that American Moist Snuff is not causing Oral Cancer. The reason most dippers suffer from gum issues is they use long cut tobacco and big pinches. That being said I have been dippin grizzly wintergreen long cut on and of for a few years and have no gum issues but I dont dip it constantly. Fine Cut Dip is much kinder on the gums.

[Snusdog]

Recent studies have found that American Moist Snuff is not causing Oral Cancer. The reason most dippers suffer from gum issues is they use long cut tobacco and big pinches. That being said I have been dippin grizzly wintergreen long cut on and of for a few years and have no gum issues but I dont dip it constantly. Fine Cut Dip is much kinder on the gums.

I agree with the cancer part (or at least am not surprised at that finding)

However, I almost never used long cut....................the only time I would use a long cut is when my gums were so torn up by the fine cut that I wanted to give them a rest with a different cut.....every time by the end of the long cut can my mouth was starting to hurt the same way just in a different spot.

My guess is that the folks using the long cut are having the same experience as those using the fine cut because it does not come down to the cut but to some other factor common to the processing of both (there is more going on with dip than just the TSNA count or the cut). Again my experience is from using dip like I now use snus (as my primary tobacco fix over a long period of time....not the occasional use).

That said..............I still maintain that dip and snus are not the same product with the same risks. While I don't think being an alarmist about it is in order........and I certainly hope I am not coming across that way................I also do not want to give anyone the impression that dip is an equivalent substitute for snus over the long term.........it is not

[ABW]

I've been using smokeless tobacco for quite a while now. I was wondering if American dipping tobacco is just as safe as Swedish snus? Don't get me wrong, I love Swedish snus and would use it exclusively if it were more available but I also like to dip too.

I've been doing a lot of Googling on this matter, and scientists almost unanimously agree that Swedish snus does not cause cancer, but as soon as you enter "dipping tobacco" into a search engine just about every page I get says "Dipping tobacco will kill you...causes cancer....causes gum disease..."

However, dipping tobacco products made by Pinkerton (a subsidiary of Swedish Match) supposedly have the same nitrosamine levels as snus.

So, which is safer, dip or snus?

I can tell you this... I am in the hospital a lot for school and I can contribute the following.. I have had two patients in my short time there who have had esophageal cancer. One was a smoker that also used chew and the other heavily used an American "dip"..

It is truly a very sad and scary thing to help people get thru and that is the reason I switched to snus. I was a heavy smoker and after being exposed to the real world effects of smoking and dip I knew I had to quit. Problem? Yes!! I loved nicotine too much so I did the research and made the change to Swedish snus..

[Premium Parrots]

and I can tell you this...........I don't know a single person that dips that has had any type of cancer....yet. However, my brother in law has cancer in the mouth and esophageal cancer. Hes been battleing it for 15 years and has had alot of his parts removed. He can't produce saliva anymore, has trouble eating and talking and such. Hes in remission now but it seems like every very few years the cancer rears its ugly head again. This man never used tobbacco at all....ever. According to him not even one cigartte. He's about 65 years old now.

[ABW]

and I can tell you this...........I don't know a single person that dips that has had any type of cancer....yet. However, my brother in law has cancer in the mouth and esophageal cancer. Hes been battleing it for 15 years and has had alot of his parts removed. He can't produce saliva anymore, has trouble eating and talking and such. Hes in remission now but it seems like every very few years the cancer rears its ugly head again. This man never used tobbacco at all....ever. According to him not even one cigartte. He's about 65 years old now.

I hope he continues to show improvement.. You must remember that I am in the hospital. This is where a concentration of Ill people come so we see a lot of things more often than most...

I do understand your point though.. We have a whole floor of patients that have different types of cancers that have not touched tobacco... But I have to say that the doctors on the floor in these cases believe that smoking and tobacco use by these two patients was a major contributing factor. I wont go into it to much but the docs have a pretty good idea because of the type and locations of the cancer among other things.

[lxskllr]

I hope he continues to show improvement.. You must remember that I am in the hospital. This is where a concentration of Ill people come so we see a lot of things more often than most...

I think PP's point was that some people just get cancer. Not to dismiss your experience, but a statistical sampling of 2 isn't even enough to speculate on. Anecdotal evidence will never be worth more than an "interesting" response. Real research, published to respected journals is what we need to pay attention to. The results can be verified, replicated, and people can argue the methodology, or conclusions on even ground. Anything else is just guesswork, and only a half a step up from superstition.

[Premium Parrots]

Would it be safe to say that using dip or smoking can be a contributing factor to actually developing cancer if you are predisposed to getting cancer say by heritity?

I would think so.

[ABW]

Just stating my experience.. Just to be clear I think I should condense my point.. I believe that snus is safer than dip.. How's that?lol

[lxskllr]

Just stating my experience..

Nothing wrong with that, and it is interesting. Just don't put too much weight on anecdotal experiences. It's always a struggle against against the anti-science, and anti-intellectual groups that will form public policy, and steal liberty based solely on what they "think", or even worse; to further their own agendas by fooling the rubes who can't accurately weigh the evidence that's presented as "proof".

[ABW]

Nothing wrong with that, and it is interesting. Just don't put too much weight on anecdotal experiences. It's always a struggle against against the anti-science, and anti-intellectual groups that will form public policy, and steal liberty based solely on what they "think", or even worse; to further their own agendas by fooling the rubes who can't accurately weigh the evidence that's presented as "proof".

I understand but please understand that these docs and nurses could give two sh..s about that.. These are good people working under tremendous stress to only to help those in need. I do my clinicals in a level 1 Trauma center in downtown Phoenix and most of our patients come from nothing and these docs and nurses treat them like they were family..

Good People!!

[Snusdog]

Nothing wrong with that, and it is interesting. Just don't put too much weight on anecdotal experiences. It's always a struggle against against the anti-science, and anti-intellectual groups that will form public policy, and steal liberty based solely on what they "think", or even worse; to further their own agendas by fooling the rubes who can't accurately weigh the evidence that's presented as "proof".

While I absolutely agree with Lx...............the last thing we need is to promote hysteria or misinformation when what is really needed is law makers who will base policy on sound information (verses misinformation)..................I do not want to go to the other extreme and poo poo Anecdotal evidence just because it is Anecdotal

Anecdotal evidence has its place in any science (and an important place at that). More often than not it is the Anecdotal evidence that puts us on the trail to more in depth research. Anecdotal evidence forms the initial questions we ask and must be accounted for in the final conclusion we reach.

So I think as long as we understand the difference both research and Anecdotal can be of help.

Think about it this way................you don't have to be a structural engineer to know that if everybody who drives across Blumont bridge plummets to their death...........you might want to go a different way.

However, to fix the bridge, to know why the problem exists, and to know how to prevent it at other bridges.............you are going to have to do more than talk to Roy whose grandma used to live just a mile from the bridge

I know my experience with dip...............I have found that experience to be shared by a great many other long term dippers................ While it is Anecdotal it does make me ask why and it does make me cautious

So I begin to look at the research to help me understand my experiences and those of others.............and to weigh my concerns.

The research may point out that the problem is in fact due to some other common factor.............and thus this factor and not dip is what needs to be addressed

However when the research fails to make the Anecdotal intelligable.............when it fails to account for or provide a plausible explanation concerning the Anecdotal ..............we find the research unsatisfactory.......incomplete..........or we may even expect a cover up

Finally, until there is sound research that can be trusted and until that research finds general agreement (so there is not one group saying one thing and another whose findings say the opposite) one must rely on the Anecdotal...................not pretending it to be conclusive..........but rather holding it out as the question that still remains to be answered...................... and that........... until it is................will continue to generate concern and govern our choices.

The problem comes when we confuse the Anecdotal for the research.............or..................... when the reasearch forgets its obligation to the Anecdotal

[lxskllr]

Think about it this way................you don't have to be a structural engineer to know that if everybody who drives across Blumont bridge plummets to their death...........you might want to go a different way.

However, to fix the bridge, to know why the problem exists, and to know how to prevent it at other bridges.............you are going to have to do more than talk to Roy whose grandma used to live just a mile from the bridge

Reminds me of this :^D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFynjrjZG_w#t=1m23s

[resnor]

Think of it this way...you have a Venn Diagram. The big circle represents the American adult population. A smaller circle represents adult Americans with oral/esophageal cancer. Another circle represents adult Americans who drink, another circle those who smoke, another circle those who dip. At some point, those circles will all intesect. It's basic probability. Just because someone dips doesn't mean that dip caused the cancer. I believe, like PP said, that if someone is genetically predisposed to get oral/esophageal cancer, that dip could accelerate it. That is why I think that the stat I posted earlier is so interesting. 2/100,00 with nothing, 4/100,000 with dip. Anti-tobacco people had done a really good job at scaring people about dip. The idea is that if you quit smoking and use dip, you're simply trading lung cancer for mouth cancer...but from what I've been able to find, that's simply not true. I live in New Hampshire. There are so many people, both old and young, that dip around here, that you should see TONS of anecdotal evidence of oral cancer linked to dipping. But you don't.

[snupy]

Stuff yourself full of high antioxidant foods to offset anything else you may be doing that might raise the risk of cancer.

[ABW]

Stuff yourself full of high antioxidant foods to offset anything else you may be doing that might raise the risk of cancer.

Good point.. Let's see.. I take new chapters life sheild(different types of mushrooms), new chapter multi, and 3 grams of purified fish oil... lol.. I should be good to go...