Red Meat Causes Cancer Again!!!! FFS!! GoVegan need not reply.

[bish777]

Frosted obviously reads the Daily Mail.

[pris]

Guays, let's just chill out here and look at something a little more eye catching yeah?

[Frosted]

Why am I arguing with some pointless person on the internet? I need a serious slap.
I'll just get back to dying of enjoyment cancer.

[bish777]

I'm willing to admit red meat may shorten my life a bit. But I'm still eating burgers, bacon butties and smoking pipe and cigars. I dont want a long boring abstaining life!

Its only an issue if someone legislates to prevent me from doing something. If the government are warning me, but do not prevent me from eating my bacon double cheeseburger then its not a nanny state.

[Snusdog]

..................aren’t those who say, "stop being a nanny state".................themselves being a nanny state.............to those perfectly contented to be in the nanny state................

wasn't Sartre’s' insistence that all men be free of social restrictions...................itself a social restriction.................

we must consider the implications of the impossibility of precluding universal deontic requirements..............except by means of universal deontic requirements.......

for such is not an inherent contradiction............but rather an inherent necessity.............and thus to contemplate such matters is indeed to glimpse something very profound……….very primordial………….. about this world…………….it is I dare say………nothing short of the footprint of God


Yelps………half time is over……….gotta run!!!

[Premium Parrots]

god .....I miss Tom

[CowWhisperer]

HEy CoWHisperer.

Being in the industry what are your views on the grass fed and grain fed arguments?

One of the points that interests me is the substantial increases in omega 3's and other beneficial vitamins in animals who are allowed to pasture feed.

If you look at eggs, butter, milk etc... from animals that are allowed to eat a more natural diet it is pretty clear something is up with factory farms.

Although trying both grass and grain I do prefer grain fed because it seems to have more fat/flavor but dairy definately tastes better from organic/pasture fed farms.

This is a good topic (and a hotly debated one at that) to bring up, and I also just went to a seminar to hear some more research on this.

First, you have to realize a few things... the phrase "factory farms" gives EVERY farm and ranch a negative connotation, like they are all desolate, depressing places likened to hell...and that is not the case in 98% of them. People need to realize that when they see SHARK or PETA posting videos of animal abuse, crowded pens, etc., that that is an EXCEPTION, not the NORM for the industry (and I'm not chiding you for this, but that phrase has been passed around so much and many people use it more freely than it should be used...the media especially digs that phrase since it is a lot more drastic than "commercial farm" or "large-scale farm operation".

Secondly, most who have something bad to say or post a picture of regarding farms/ranches, have not ever been on the other side of the fence to see why things are the way they are, why we have certain protocols for things, etc...people are so disconnected from Agriculture these days it's horrendous. I'm not saying you should go work on a farm or anything like that, but I think this new, growing idea of "Aged/Sourced Beef" is a great idea, since people can get more access to information about where their food comes from, how it was processed and grown, rather than just expecting it to be on their store shelves and that's just where it magically appears daily.

OKAY..so with those two things said, Grain vs. Grass fed, Organic, All-Natural, etc. are all different for the different industries, so I'll just stick to beef and dairy (cattle) for this answer. Realize first that grain is not "unnatural" for the cow to eat...it's just as natural as grass and other things herbivores eat. However, the outcome of beef quality, taste, shear values (tenderness), and fat content differs. Grain is used in the feedlot to rapidly fatten a cow to finishing weight, which is usually around 1200-1300lb. Why? Because it's concentrated energy (carbs mostly) that the cow is not going to immediately burn off. The cattle are situated in pens where they can freely walk around, but obviously not as large an area as a pasture (the cattle do not lay in a pool of their own excrement though, as most argue...actually most pens are very clean, because if they aren't it becomes a breeding ground for bacteria, which in turn makes the cow ill=reduces its daily gain=not profitable for the feedyard). What this does is add the marbling (intra-muscular fat) which is the source of the "tastiness" of a steak. The other fat, "seam fat" or "waste" fat, is the line of fat around the outer edge of the steak, and that is kept to a minimum. I must mention though, that with the volume of concentrates that are fed to cattle in a feedlot, they are very susceptible to bloat and internal abscesses from the feed ration being too "hot" or concentrated. Think of eating protein powder for every meal...your liver is going to hate you for that.

Cows that are pasture-fed though, can freely move around in a more natural environment, yes, but it also alters the meat in ways that many people don't realize until they bite into a grass-fed steak. Being that they can freely roam, they burn off much of the "marbling" fat that gives the steak it's flavor, and it also makes the steak more chewy/less tender. However, you get the benefit of less fat content in the steak for people who are concerned about that, and that appeals to many until like I said, they try it and realize it is much, much different than a grain-fed steak. Also though, like I mentioned with feedlot cattle and illnesses, pasture-fed (grass fed) cattle are also susceptible to bloat if the pasture is too lush and green, and can also get toxicity if a frost sets in on some grasses (grasses become toxic)...so there are things to consider like that for both.

After explaining these two, I do have a surprise though...Corn, rye, oats, and barley, and even ingredients in the "distiller's grains" that are a by-product of brewing process fed to cattle, come from grasses They are fed in the feedlot in harvested form obviously, but if you were to put them out in a pasture of rye, oats, barley, etc...well then you could say they are grass-fed!

So after this novel of a lecture, here are the bottom line pros/cons
Grain=better taste, more tender and juicy//more fat content, and dealing with the whole "cattle in pens" circumstance lol.
Grass=less fat content (leaner)//less juicy, tender, and flavorful. But, you get to picture all the cows smiling in lush green pastures and that makes some people feel better about it haha.

Concerning the seminar, to sum up what the research was, they found that the fat cells in grain fed cattle were very large, but there are less of them in the meat...and with grass fed, the fat cells were very small, but there were a huuge amount of them in the meat, which is what causes the lack of tenderness...currently they are trying to see how to make those small fat cells larger, which would yield a more flavorful, tender steak.

By the way, currently I work on a grass-fed cattle ranch operation, and we put them out to pasture to eat alfalfa (which is a legume, not a grass) and other native grasses, but we do feed them oat grass as well.

Sorry this post was so long, but all this needed to be addressed in order to answer your question correctly.

[Snusdog]

god .....I miss Tom

Tom IS exactly what this thread needs

If for no other reason than he could tell us weather or not they eat meat in hollow earth

[lxskllr]

Tom IS exactly what this thread needs

If for no other reason than he could tell us weather or not they eat meat in hollow earth

Hitler didn't eat meat :^D

[Premium Parrots]

Hitler didn't eat meat :^D

What about Eva?

[GoVegan]

Must hold back from replying...

[Bigblue1]

..................aren’t those who say, "stop being a nanny state".................themselves being a nanny state.............to those perfectly contented to be in the nanny state................

wasn't Sartre’s' insistence that all men be free of social restrictions...................itself a social restriction.................

we must consider the implications of the impossibility of precluding universal deontic requirements..............except by means of universal deontic requirements.......

for such is not an inherent contradiction............but rather an inherent necessity.............and thus to contemplate such matters is indeed to glimpse something very profound……….very primordial………….. about this world…………….it is I dare say………nothing short of the footprint of God


Yelps………half time is over……….gotta run!!!

Leave it to the dog to bring up Jean Paul, and for you kids out there I'm not talking the pop/rap artist. And leave it to me to be the only one who picked up on it. Much love to the snuson-dog.........

[Roo]

Nice post CowWhisperer.

Funny to mention Tom, this thread reminds me of him too, but for different reasons. Shiki I think you are just bored. Why else would you invest so much time in Frosted's reaction to an article that he himself posted? I used to do the same shit with Tom, to the point of ignoring family gatherings to argue with him about Nazis or defend Muslims or call him out on his "i'm not racist but..." commentary on poor black people in America (ha I miss Tom too). But looking back I can't admit to being anything but bored, and looking to pick an easy fight on this forum with someone you think is a ****in' whack job.

In fact, what seems like ages ago I used to think Frosted was a whack job as well. But as it turned out, he is one of the finest gents on this here forum, and he's got a great sense of humor about him, and I for one think he's a terrific son of a bitch. Our friend was upset about something and venting here to his internet buddies about it. So with all due respect, because you are a fine gent yourself, cut the man some ****ing slack and have a laugh about something. Anything. You seem wound up brother.

[truthwolf1]

This is a good topic (and a hotly debated one at that) to bring up, and I also just went to a seminar to hear some more research on this.

First, you have to realize a few things... the phrase "factory farms" gives EVERY farm and ranch a negative connotation, like they are all desolate, depressing places likened to hell...and that is not the case in 98% of them. People need to realize that when they see SHARK or PETA posting videos of animal abuse, crowded pens, etc., that that is an EXCEPTION, not the NORM for the industry (and I'm not chiding you for this, but that phrase has been passed around so much and many people use it more freely than it should be used...the media especially digs that phrase since it is a lot more drastic than "commercial farm" or "large-scale farm operation".

Thank you CowWhisperer for taking the time to explain things as a insider.

Most of the information out there is pretty black or white and you have delivered it nicely in the middle. One thing I sense from most people is that they do not want to know how that steak gets to the supermarket. If people were a little more in touch with their local farms which I see as a future trend growing, it would be better for everyone (including the animals that we eat).

This will be on my $hit to do list with my kid this year. We have a number of cattle farms by our cabin which give tours etc.. The largest operation looks like a feedlot/pasture grazing operation which seems like another way of getting great meat but also in a more animal friendly way.

You have however opened a number of questions in my mind still about the "grass is grass" argument.

If this post does not die too quickly I will back with a few questions still.
Hopefully Shiitake keeps swinging!!

[sgreger1]

Thanks for that writeup CowWhisperer, you really live up to your username lol. I have to say though, humboldt grassfed hamburger meat for example tastes WAAAAAAAAY better than regular beef paties. I mean the taste is so instantly different it's like coke vs. dr pepper, you can spot which is which right away. Do other really not like grassfet beef? I guess this may have to do with the fact that I don't like fat, but to me the taste is just more, I don't know how to describe it, maybe more "gamey". I would literally pay an extra $2 for a burger that was grassfed, it tastes that much better imo. But I don't always have common tastes so maybe that is just me, also i've never eaten it as a steak before so maybe it just doesn't work that well for the steak.


Also, can you tell me if this is true? I heard on the radio the other day that california milk has more calcium in it (they said like 30%) because of regulations regarding our soil quality or something. Is this true in your experience? I can't believe it would be 30% higher but maybe I am wrong.