Sometimes I wonder about all this stuff..

[simon]

I hate to stir up trouble and debate, but I was just wondering, I read articles about how snus is almost harmless, and the guys on the forums around the net are convinced it's safe, so I wonder is it really, or is it just the word of addicts.. Don't get me wrong I'm an addict, and I find every reason in the world to feel better about smoking, but, are these forums and the internet being used by tobacco companies to mislead the public, just like they did years ago, by having doctors tell people how safe it was, and medical studies showing it was safe blah blah blah.. Could they be using the internet to spread untruths, and mislead a new generation using the new technology to do it.
I know they dude that runs other forums, not to mention names, but I know he is biased, just say anything positive about camel snus, he jumps all over it with a 1000 word post, and well, I imagine it's because he's trying to run a business, and recommending the competitor is bad for business.
I don't know am I making sense to anybody here? Ever wonder about the same hings?

[lxskllr]

There's been numerous studies funded by tobacco companies, government organizations, and private organizations, and all of them reflect what's routinely stated on these forums.

[fedora]

Simon - your question probably isn't going to stir too much up. Most of the guys here are tough. :-) Read through the Snus & Health forum section, see the reviews and other studies like lxskllr mentions and come to your own conclusions. In the end it will be up to you anyhow. Not what someone else says.

Welcome to the forum.

[RobsanX]

Simon, there is an independent study of snus users in Sweden going back to the 70's, and published in the most prestigious medical journal in the world "The Lancet".

The bottom line results of that study are that there is no increased chance of oral cancer in non-smoking snus users, over the general population.

There is an increase in the chance of pancreatic cancer. Snus users have a 8 in 10,000 chance of getting this cancer vs. 4 in 10,000 chance if you don't use snus. The whackjob headlines will tell you that snus doubles the risk of pancreatic cancer. Yes it does, but it is such a rare cancer that doubling the risk doesn't amount to much.

That is enough to convince me. If you want to look further into it just Google "snus" and "Lancet". Even with the risk of snus, it is at least 90% safer than smoking.

[chainsnuser]

Simon, you're much like me. I probably would also be snusing, if it were more harmful than smoking and I would find good reasons to do so.

Yet I'm critical enough about the snus-hype. But the evidence that snus indeed is harmless or almost harmless is overwhelming.

RobsanX already pointed it out. If the anti-tobacco-workers don't have anything else to say than to misleadingly present a statistically highly doubtable increase of an extremely rare type of cancer, found in a rather flawed study, then it speaks volumes.

I have never read anything else about snus by anti-tobacco-people, but simple horror-stories to scare children or misleadingly presented scientific results. No wonder, BTW, these people's jobs are the more secure the more people continue to smoke, if they would get paid for everyone who quits smoking, you could bet how soon they'd start to heavily advocate snus-use and say that it's totally harmless or even healthful. They're just simple, opportunistic hypocrites, easy to see through!

Snus is just some kind of air-dried vegatable that we put under our lip, not so different from anything else that we eat everyday. There is no harm from tobacco, besides the addiction-potential, of course. The harm from smoking comes from the smoke with it's 10.000's of chemical byproducts of combustion, not from the tobacco itself.

Cheers!

[sagedil]

simon, best place to start is information on Swedish match's website. Tons of medical info there. And no, they really can't lie. Sweden a different place than here and Government there a bit more aggressive making sure companies don't lie

But as others have said, this is a topic that has been studied in Sweden going on 40 years now, ever since snus usage started to rise again in the early 70's

Spend a day reading everything out there, you will see that the claims are true. Same as snuff. It's very simple, heat causes carcinogens to form. Don't heat the tobacco, just not gonna be an issue.

[Crews]

Also, you have to consider the fact, that in Sweden there are a decent percentage less deaths by lung cancer (than other countries with same population or even more). In such debates, one thing I like to add is:"When you're doing snus in a bus stop, you don't harm other people health". Can't say the same about cigarettes.

[Liandri]

Unless you chew on the cigarettes.

Either way from what I read on both independents/science/medical and on the forums the talk is parallel with each other. But still mind you that, like all tobacco products it has addictive traits and one person might live until a thousand years old while using a product, another might get cancer in 3 years.

Mind you there are nay-sayers and zealots constantly battling each other for any and every product out there. I won't say "This stuff is the best in the world, must try!" and then be responsible for you smoking, snusing, and whatever else to catch the fix. Like all alternatives it takes a certain mindset and determination to get yourself into something.

Ex smokers might confuse simply replacing a portion from needing a stronger craving from its not working whatsoever for example. But I'm completely neutral on this, if you have any doubts search for yourself, don't use links provided on this website but find them for yourself. If you still think it might be a possibility. There is always:

http://www.swedishsnus.com/EU/storelocator.asp

If there is a store close to you, try it for yourself. But don't make a judgment call on only a couple cans. Takes a little time. Or I might be just blowing smoke outa my arse. Either way I'm bored and feel like typing!

[Ainkor]

Let me be the first to out my theory that sagedil is really a Swedish Match plant. He speaks much to highly of snus and its wonders to be anything but!

All joking aside, I think most of us came to snus looking for an alternative that satisfies out nicotine craving yet is less harmful than smoking. I know in my case I had fully studied snus before I even tried it. I grew up in the 70's and 80's when it was seriously taboo to use oral tobacco because your jaw would fall off! I remember my father making a comment when I was younger about oral tobacco. It was basically this..... "At least I'll die pretty".

I think everyone here agrees that before any decision is made about any drug that a person uses that they should fully investigate it and make sure it is a good choice for them. We might all be "snus-vangelists" but I think we also pride ourselves on our understanding of the physiological effects of tobacco use based on countless studies that have been published.

Make sure to take some time and study the unbiased studies yourself and you will feel much better about this forum, at least.

Welcome aboard too!

[simon]

I'm glad that post made a little sense, and that I'm not alone in not trusting stuff I read on the internet. At least I'm not the only one thinking about stuff like that. Anyway, good forum, good conversions.. I'm not totally new to this place though, been a Camel SNUSer for a couple months now, still smoke occasionally, but most of the time I don't NEED it when I have a mellow ready to go. Before I get yelled at in all caps lock, I tried a whole bunch of swed snus, and for the most part, I'd just rather go down to the corner station and buy a tin of Camel, it's just easier, and I like the taste, tastes like sweet tea ;-) I didn't like a lot of the imported snus, especially the offroad wintergreen and the mini mint, yuk...

[sagedil]

LOL. No my friend, just working towards using for 3 years. Did all the research myself before I started using (preSnuson times) and just have found an amazing product that led this 30+ year smoker away from cigarettes.

You know all those annoying Jesus freaks who insist on always telling you how Jesus saved them??? I am not so bad. But damn well am gonna be ready with information for those folks who are really interested.

( And BTW, I largely don't use ANY Swedish match products, just seem to always prefer others)

[tom502]

Also, I personally believe it's rather harmless. The points that are sometimes said, like pancreatic cancer, it much higher among smokers. And while some want to connect oral cancer with oral tobacco, most cases are from smokers. I don't think snus has been connected with this at all. Alot of this is theory(with political agendas), with no evidence.

[mlkramer]

I can't add much more then what all those before have done here. But I will say this.

I, like you, found it to be a bit one sided and unbelievable in many ways. It was one of those "too good to be true" feelings nagging at me. I therefore made it a point to find legitimate proof that snus was harmful in someway I just wasn't finding. I spent a lot of hours researching this. (I can have a tendancy to go overboard when I decide I want the knowledge!)

What I did find was that the one sided opinions that seem to be funded by someone with agendas came solely from the anti-tobacco zealots. I don't use the word zealot lightly either. To me, it means anyone who has firmly planted there mind on on side of an opinion so far that to them it is fact. There are those in our history whom you could have put in orbit around earth and they would die for the flat earth cause.
I've noticed you'll rarely find anyone like that in a community such as is found here. We all feel strongly about our snus. But, I've seen on many occasion, the folks here advise others who might want to try snus, and have never used nicotine, to perhaps reconsider.
You would NEVER see an anti-tobacco zealot recommend someone try snus or snuff as a harm reduction way to get off of smoking. Never mind that it may add many years to there life. There is NO middle ground for such people. i.e. celibacy is the only thing we should teach teenagers and on and on. There is no reality in there world as I see it.

O.K...I guess I did have more to say lol...and I'll gently jump off my soap box now...

[spirit72]

Re: Sometimes I wonder about all this stuff..

but, are these forums and the internet being used by tobacco companies to mislead the public, just like they did years ago, by having doctors tell people how safe it was, and medical studies showing it was safe blah blah blah.. Could they be using the internet to spread untruths, and mislead a new generation using the new technology to do it.

I really kinda doubt it. In this day and age, information is much too freely available for companies to keep a secret for too long. Info can be leaked from inside to the Internet very quickly and mostly anonymously.

With snus and nasal snuff, I just can't get too worked up about it. We can't say that the products are 100% safe, but we *can* say with a high degree of certainty that they are safer than smoking by several orders of magnitude.

My bottom line? Seriously, fellas.....no one gets off of this ride alive. Tobacco is something I enjoy, and I've found what appear to be the two safest forms of use. So, I'm gonna enjoy it......and to heck with the Nannies. :wink: