Another sheep joins the flock

[elothen]

Baaaaa!

First post from a newbie here. I tried SNUS about 2 months ago, got some of the Camel Frost and honestly didn't take to it at all, even though I really wanted too. However I absolutely HAVE to get off cigarettes so I kept researching and found this site. I do believe you people have changed my life. All of the wonderful discussion, support, and stories have kept my interest up and kept me trying.

I've had some real Swedish SNUS on order for a while but turns out Northerner was out of stock so it's taking a while. Yesterday I took a long lunch and went to a tobacco shop in the area that keeps a few flavors of General. It was expensive though ($7.50/can!!!) so I just got one but that should do me until my order gets here. So, thanks to you and General White I haven't had a cig in 22 hours! The best part is, I don't mind!

I've tried many many times to quit before, from the 4 hour petty attempts to several weeks. For the longer attempts I basically just shifted to being an alcoholic, which obviously wasn't sustainable when I got back to work. So when I'd get back to work and couldn't drink I'd make it about half a day before I ran out and bought some smokes. Oh the shame I felt every time.

I've also tried Chantix for about 3 weeks but that stuff put me somewhere between homicidal and suicidal. I remember just sitting at home crying (yes I'm a guy, very not cool) thanks to that medication. Needless to say I ditched that and went back to the cigs.

So round and round I've gone with these 60mm demons for many years, never intended to start, always wanted to quit. I've been fearing my next quit attempt for months because I knew I needed too but the horrors of previous attempts (some nearly marriage ending) just made it easier to keep smoking. I tried Alan Carr's book too, and although there's some really good stuff in there, his plan just didn't work for me.

The thing for me is that cigs have always made me feel like shit. Just totally crappy. But that little nicotine reward for dealing with the poison kept me latched on. I've been a pretty solid half/pack a day smoker because my body is so impacted by the poisons I couldn't stand more. I've had a few chain smoking sessions at bars and I seriously thought I was going to die afterwards.

Now I sit her, posting this, slowly sipping the General White juices, and at total peace. Already my breathing is better, my taste is coming back, and sensations through my skin are more pronounced. It's as if I can literal feel the cigarette poisons evaporating from my body while my brain stays in check thanks to SNUS (good SNUS, not that overly sweet Camel stuff).

After reading so much information about smoking, SNUS, and nicotine I've developed another theory about how it all works. Yes, I think the brain develops an addiction on nicotine but that's only part of the equation. The REAL hook of cigarettes has to be the poisons. Once I read the list of poisons in cigarettes my first thought was, why don't they just take those out?! I think they're key to the addiction though. I think mixing the poisons with the good feeling of nicotine is the real trick, and why big tobacco won't change their recipe. They tear you down and then give you a small treat for the privilege. It starts a cycle, you feel like shit when you smoke, you feel like shit when you don't, but at least while you're smoking you get that little reward. So you go for your reward and renew the cycle.

That's why I think big tobacco is so afraid of SNUS. It doesn't lock you in the same cycle. It's much more like a dependence on caffeine when you take away all the poisons. That, to me, is evidenced by the dozens of posts I've read to that effect. So many people saying that once they could get their cookie (nicotine) without the poisons (tar, CO, Arsenic, Ammonia) that moving on to just do without the cookie at all was pretty easy.

Someday I'd like to do without altogether, but if I SNUS'd for the rest of my life, that'd be fine. I particularly like the fact that should I choose to have a smoke at some point I can, which from EVERY successful quitter I've talked to that's disastrous. Just ONE cigarette can easily put someone back on a pack a day habit. With SNUS, we're IMMUNE!

Well this small novel has gone on long enough. Just wanted to say Hi, share my experiences, and thank you all for such an incredible and wonderful community!

[Darwin]

Elothen your experience reminds me of how amazing it its that U.S. tobacco companies seem to be completely incapable of reading the gigantic hyper-obvious writing on the wall. If they had any sense at all they would by now be convinced that cigs are, slowly but relentlessly, on the way out and that to save their own hides and the livelihoods of thousands they should jump on the snus bandwagon in a big way. And no not just on the smokeless bandwagon in general but the real Swedish Gothiatek certified snus deal. In only this way will they be able to fend off the growing army of anti-tobacco zealots because if the FDA ever deigns to test the health effects of snus they will be forced to admit to not only its safety but also its efficacy in providing a clear path away from smoking. They should make real snus and thus make the FDA an ally instead of the determined enemy that it currently is.

Capitalism may be the most effective, if imperfect of course, economic system ever devised but that doesn't mean that the leaders of any given corporation can't be clueless boneheads all too willing to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory even as that victory lies close to hand beckoning seductively. Clueless boneheadedness or arrant villainy are the only explanations for the majors approach to snus thus far.

Er, sorry for the OT rant. Welcome and enjoy the oh so sweet real Swedish deal.

[elothen]

Hey Darwin, is that a Mark I "Bugeye" Sprite you're using for your avatar? I used to have a Mark II (non-bugeye) that I autocrossed. Awesome little cars!

As far as the tobacco companies, I think the problem is that SNUS simply isn't as addictive as cigs. It's pretty much unanimous across these forums that as smokers we'd kill for that next cig, but for SNUSers.... well they really like it but wouldn't commit murder for their next portion.

It's been time tested that cigarette sales are not effected by downturns in the economy. That's because it's a NEED, a REQUIREMENT. My parents owned a shop out in a poor area of the country where they sold beer and cigarettes. They'd have customers that lost their job, be living on food stamps and what not, still scrounge up enough money for their smokes. Then when they got another job they'd start buying beer again, but their cigarette purchases never faltered.

My impression is that SNUS addiction is much more like Coffee addiction. I never deny myself a good cup of coffee, but if there wasn't one available I wouldn't be horribly out of sorts. Maybe a bit tired, but not raging out on people etc. IMO SNUS will hit the big companies hard but... ca la vie. It's high time they joined every other industry in having to deal with the ups and downs of the economy. As more people learn about this safer way of getting their nicotine fix the big tobacco companies are going to be forced to get on the bandwagon (in a real way, not this Camel SNUS crap attempt). Of course, their first avenue will be legislation/lobbying to try and limit SNUS options. I haven't read too much about it but my instinct is that the PACT act was probably lobbied for heavily by big tobacco.

[Darwin]

Another BE Sprite fan--cool. The original pic from which I made the avatar was fuzzy impressionist thing which made it hard to tell the exact year of the car that was painted but it's a genny bugeye for sure. In another of my relentless attempts at self-promotion I suggest looking in on one of my blogs:
http://oiukm32.blogspot.com/2009/12/...of-weight.html
It's a loving "review" of a faux (but sorely needed and wanted) new vehicle which evokes the original Sprites and Midgets. As an old Sprite fan you might enjoy it.

Very astute observations about cig addiction compared to snus. You're likely right about the qualitative differences but good lord if the anti-tobacco zealots ever shut down the snus pipeline I will raise holy hell and plunge into the black market with revolutionary zeal.

[Veganpunk]

Welcome to SnusOn. Yea, that's one of the best parts about snus, You can smoke one cig, and it not be the end of the world, must go out a and buy a pack, smoke them all!!!!!! I like to smoke a cig, on a Friday afternoon after work, with a beer in my hand. After that it's right back to the snus, because snus goes so much better with beer.

[Snusdog]

Re: Another sheep joins the flock

Once I read the list of poisons in cigarettes my first thought was, why don't they just take those out?! I think they're key to the addiction though. I think mixing the poisons with the good feeling of nicotine is the real trick, and why big tobacco won't change their recipe.

Welcome to the forum elothen. Those are my thought exactly except involving dip

From the Dipper's Guide to Snus

However, what I realized is that what I thought was a nic fix was in fact a fix of all the other crap that American tobacco puts into their dip. For a couple of weeks after making the change to snus, my lip actually craved the dip (kid you not). Another, indication of the chemical difference is that I could not swallow dip without a great deal of heart burn. Snus is meant to be swallowed (like tea or coffee). For me the purity of snus was a major draw and motivation for me to make the change. This purity is evidenced by the low occurrence of oral cancer and gum disease in Sweden (look it up. It is well documented).

Anyway, glad to have you on board (or in the fold)

dog 8)

.

[f. bandersnatch]

Welcome to the forum.

It looks like you are off to a good start.

And yes, you definitely get addicted to other stuff in smokes, that seems to be the major contributing factor to brand loyalty. Just remember that the best thing about quitting with snus is that you can take your time and quit at exactly the speed you need to.

Take your time and ask questions, the people around here will be more than happy to help you out.

[Frosted]

A very warm welcome Elothan. Reading your post (which was great) reminds me of myself two years ago. Exactly the same thoughts and panic were racing around my head - trying to get away from feeling like sh"t all the time.

I still pinch myself that it was so easy to quit with snus and everything you wrote is true. It's different on snus.

I've got to the point now where I loathe cigarettes and another will never pass into my lungs - and with that I am really happy and at peace.

[elothen]

Oh noes! I smoked a cigarette this morning! Funny thing is, it did nothing for me. I ditched a General White portion after about 20 minutes (I'd been sucking on them for ~2hrs), waited half an hour then smoked the cig and... nothing. No nic hit, not really anything (other than poison of course). So I gave myself another half hour after that and popped in another portion. Man this stuff is great!

I've got some General Sterks en route and hopefully some Ettan White soon. I'm hoping the Sterks will provide that good morning buzz and the after meal treat that cigs used to provide. As it stands with just the General White I maintain a good consistent nic flow all day but even after going from 7pm-7am with nothing I still didn't get a good initial hit when I popped in that first portion.

Other than just trying out various Sterk/Extra Sterk portions any suggestions for how to get that nic buzz when I want it? Or is the buzz simply sacrificed with this pure form of intake?

Thanks!

[lxskllr]

I wouldn't sweat it, you're just used to smoking. It took me a long time to get out of the habit of my first morning cigarette. It isn't so much the nicotine, as the physical habit of smoking. Just keep using snus, and smoking your cigarette in the morning when you really want one(Make sure you REALLY want one though). Once you're completely in the snus groove, you can start cutting yourself off from the morning cigs. Ettan, or Grov with coffee is a very nice substitute, and I look forward to that as much as I did any cigarette.

Also, keep in mind that cigarettes aren't the instant death the zealots want you to think they are. If you smoke 1 or 2 cigarettes per day, so what? Your drive into work has you inhaling crap that makes cigarettes look like an oxygen stream by comparison. Don't stress over it. You'll quit when it's time to quit. Forcing cutoff dates only leads to frustration.

[elothen]

Thanks Lx, though based on numerous other posts I wasn't worried. The affirmation and encouragement is appreciated though. Based on this experience I'm pretty confident that I'm not even going to be finishing this particular pack I have in my car.

As far as the timing I mentioned, 20-30 min of SNUS 20-30 min break, then the cig I found some evidence to back up why that had no noticeable effect on me and it's pretty F'ing cool.

http://smokersonly.org/media/Congres...ony%202003.pdf

Page 8 of this report (posted by someone in another thread) shows the nicotine concentrations of cigs vs. smokeless tobacco over time. If you look at it you'll see that after just 30 min of SNUS use I would have been at about 14ng/ml, my wait time would have taken me to about 12ng/ml then the cig would have taken me back up to ~15.5ng/ml. A 3ng/ml shift would clearly seem almost non-existent compared to a 15ng/ml shift that you would get by smoking first thing in the morning.

I also see in that chart exactly why I would generally smoke once an hour. Usually I'd start feeling it after about 45 minutes, would then push another 15 or so and walah.

The chart also shows how nic gum, etc. keeps a nic junkie just on the edge of insanity. What a god aweful product. I wouldn't be surprised if the tobacco companies made the crap with the direct intention of driving people back to cigarettes.

Being more of a scientific mind than religious I love finding real data to back up my perceptions. My faith is frail if not non-existent, but I can rest easy on scientific fact.

[timholian]

Nice link, thanks. Very interesting stuff. I think you may be on to something with that nic gum.

[elothen]

Grrrr... Well I've got 3 cans of General Extra Sterk due next Thursday at the latest and 5 cans of Ettan White due the following Monday... Which means I'll almost certainly have to go back to the local tobacco shop and pay $8 for a can to tide me over, maybe 2 if the Extra Sterk's rip my head off. Oh well, even at $8/each it's still cheaper than my cig habit was.

I think tomorrow (payday ) I'll order a variety pack from buysnus and maybe a few one-offs of various SNUSeses... SNUSi... SNUS? What is the plural of SNUS anyhow?

[truthwolf1]

First you need to want to quit smoking and then SNUS will take care of the rest. I did it cold turkey on mini-snus and went through a good week of serious mental depression/distress and partial withdrawls before I started doubling the mini's and stabilized. The following month I was on a natural high all day and all night from quiting my first time ever after 22 years.
I have tried many times to convince others about SNUS but they are still in the smoke til I die phase. So, my thought is if smokers want to quit or cut down SNUS is magic but to think SNUS will get a majority of smokers snusing is wishful thinking.

[Frosted]

Very true truthwolf. Every single smoker I've introduced to snus doesn't want to know. I have no idea why really but they take one look at it and it puts them off. That and the fact they're not desperate to give up anyway.
I think a person has to have tried everything, failed and starts to panic before they wake up to snus.