Camel: Doing Snus The Right Way?

[ratcheer]

It might not have liked your phone number!!

btw, cell phones are generally classified as unpublished/unlisted
since there is no central repository for the numbers.

Try putting an age to that!!

First, I am 59 years old. I gave my correct name, address, and home phone number. I have had the same phone number since 1977 and the same address since 1993. If that wasn't enough info, the hell with them. I probably won't buy Camel snus, anyway, but that is a hell of a way to try to attract new customers!

Tim

[chadizzy1]

The thing I want to assert about Camel "snus" is this. They are VERY secretive about it. Not only will they not disclose ingredients or methods to the average snus consumer, they won't even speak to anyone in the snus writing/blogging industry. Not to say I consider myself "higher" than the average snus consumer, but I have a website which is widely viewed, and I can also speak for Larry @ SnusCentral.org - The Camel folks at RJR, specifically Susan Ivey or any of their PR people rarely if ever reach out to us or respond to emails or questions about their product. The only info I've seen them send out is some info about nicotine content they sent to Larry in an article he wrote about American snus. The only time RJR has spoken to me was over the phone about Camel Dip, and when asking questions about Camel "snus", the guy was quick to respond with he didn't know/couldn't talk about it.

Case in point? Swedish Match. I went to Sweden a few months ago and was given FULL access to Swedish Match, their key players, and allowed to tour their factories and watch snus being made from start (pure tobacco) to finish (a completed can). I was able to view all the production methods, all their standard checks and quality checks, and see and fully ensure that what I was putting in my mouth was the safest snus product available. Camel has not allowed anyone into their factory to see their production methods. (trust me, many of us have tried to gain access).

That still, in my mind, is the difference between Swedish Snus and American "snus". The Swedes don't hide what they're making or what's in their product. The Americans are VERY secretive about what they're doing. The fact that they won't talk or won't allow access to a lot of information about their product is, in my mind, the key difference. I want to know that what I'm putting in my mouth is the safest form of tobacco on the market. And in the case of American "snus", I simply don't believe it is. Until RJR or Phillip Morris will allow someone to check out what they're doing, I'm not going to go near their product unless I have to. (review purposes only).

[WickedKitchen]

VoIP telephone numbers sometimes come up as mobile phones. I guess this is due to the fact that your home IP address isn't exactly static. I know this probably isn't your case ratcheer, but it might be the problem for some. I remember having to have to use my mother's land line to sign up for something a few years ago. She gets weird stuff in the mail under my name every now and again too. I just play dumb but I know it's all from that one time.

Whereas Camel might not telemarket you they will most likely sell your info to someone else who will. Happens all the time.

[ratcheer]

VoIP telephone numbers sometimes come up as mobile phones. I guess this is due to the fact that your home IP address isn't exactly static. I know this probably isn't your case ratcheer, but it might be the problem for some. I remember having to have to use my mother's land line to sign up for something a few years ago. She gets weird stuff in the mail under my name every now and again too. I just play dumb but I know it's all from that one time.

Mine is old fashioned POTS, which is an actual telecommunications industry term that means "Plain Old Telephone Service".

Tim

[LaZeR]

....That still, in my mind, is the difference between Swedish Snus and American "snus". The Swedes don't hide what they're making or what's in their product. The Americans are VERY secretive about what they're doing. The fact that they won't talk or won't allow access to a lot of information about their product is, in my mind, the key difference. I want to know that what I'm putting in my mouth is the safest form of tobacco on the market. And in the case of American "snus", I simply don't believe it is. Until RJR or Phillip Morris will allow someone to check out what they're doing, I'm not going to go near their product unless I have to. (review purposes only).

That's cauz the American Tobacco companies don't want you to see the fiberglass press.

[Veganpunk]

The two new flavors are miles above the Frost and Mellow. Still not Swedish, but they are getting better.

[chadizzy1]

Wow, no sooner than I finished this post here, I received an email from the PR folks at RJ Reynolds. They're actually open to answering questions and possibly meeting in regards to an article I wanted to write about Camel. It will be interesting to see if anything comes out of this.

[tom502]

I believe most, if not all, American users of Scandinavian snus, really do want to see Camel, or any American compnay, actually get snus right. The companies need to realize this as well, and consider what we want.

[ratcheer]

I believe most, if not all, American users of Scandinavian snus, really do want to see Camel, or any American compnay, actually get snus right. The companies need to realize this as well, and consider what we want.

I would agree with that.

Tim

[ChaoticGemini]

Wow, no sooner than I finished this post here, I received an email from the PR folks at RJ Reynolds. They're actually open to answering questions and possibly meeting in regards to an article I wanted to write about Camel. It will be interesting to see if anything comes out of this.

Wow. Maybe the reason you don't get answers is because they spend all their resources on TX SNUS studies and interns scouring the internet for any reference to their product.
Anyway, keep us posted if you actually get any answers.

[snusgetter]

FYI - Cigarette Ingredients Disclosed

~
An example of the information published by RJR
at R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Company | Brand Compounds


View Ingredients by a specific cigarette brand

Winston Red Box (US)

• Tobacco Tobacco (in the form of a selected blend of tobacco grades from various growing areas) is used to provide the desired taste requirement for the specific cigarette brand and style.
• Water Common food item.

Winston Red Box (Sold in Puerto Rico)

• Tobacco Tobacco (in the form of a selected blend of tobacco grades from various growing areas) is used to provide the desired taste requirement for the specific cigarette brand and style.
• Water Common food item.
• High Fructose Corn Syrup High fructose corn syrup is used to reduce harshness, improve tobacco aroma, the tobacco taste of smoke, and reduce irritation. The Food & Drug Administration considers high fructose corn syrup to be Generally Recognized as Safe in food. It is found in sugar sources; and is used in baked goods and candy.
• Glycerol Glycerol is the humectant used to retain moisture in the tobacco during cutting. It also aids in moisture retention during cigarette storage on the shelf. The Food & Drug Administration and the Flavor & Extract Manufacturers Association considers glycerol to be Generally Recognized as Safe in food. It is found in beer, cherries, and wine; and is used in milk products and baked goods.
• Cocoa Cocoa powder is used to reduce some of the harshness associated with burning tobacco, while decreasing some of the throat sensation of smoke and improving tobacco taste. The Food & Drug Administration considers cocoa powder to be Generally Recognized as Safe in food. It is found in cocoa and cocoa shells; and is used in baked goods.
• Licorice Licorice powder is used to reduce some of the harshness and bitterness associated with burning tobacco, while adding some sweetness and mouth sensation to the smoke. The Food & Drug Administration and the Flavor & Extract Manufacturers Association considers licorice powder to be Generally Recognized as Safe in food. It is found in the Glycyrrhiza Glabra plant; and is used in candy, baked goods and meat products.
• Cellulose Fiber Cellulose fiber is used to strengthen tobacco sheet. Cellulose is a natural polysaccharide, which is the most abundant carbohydrate in nature and found in all plant material. It is used in grated cheese, fruit preserves, jams and jellies.
• Propylene Glycol Propylene glycol is the solvent or carrier used to add the natural and artificial flavors to tobacco. The Food & Drug Administration and the Flavor & Extract Manufacturers Association considers propylene glycol to be Generally Recognized as Safe in food. It is found in sesame seeds and mushrooms; and is used in confection frostings, cheese and candy.
• Natural & Artificial Flavors Natural & artificial flavors are used with selected tobacco to generate a flavor that provides the cigarette brand style its own product integrity and point of differentiation.

As we can see, RJR's Winston has two formulas.

The Winston Red Box (US) is advertised as all-natural and the ingredients list only shows 2 ingredients.

The Winston Red Box (Sold in Puerto Rico) is an all-together different formula containing, among the 9 compounds, High Fructose Corn Syrup.

Different markets, different products.



Coming Up Next: Camel Snus Compounds

[snusgetter]

FYI - Camel Snus Ingredients Disclosed

~
Information published for RJR's Camel Snus
at R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Company | Brand Compounds


Ingredients for

• Camel Snus Frost
• Camel Snus Mellow
• Camel Snus Robust
• Camel Snus Winterchill

• Tobacco Tobacco (in the form of a selected blend of tobacco grades from various growing areas) is used to provide the desired taste requirement for the specific cigarette brand and style.
  ~
• Water Common food item.
  ~
• Sodium Carbonate & Bicarbonate [baking soda]
  ~
  
• Pouch Material [undefined]
  ~
  
• Propylene Glycol Propylene glycol is the solvent or carrier used to add the natural and artificial flavors to tobacco. The Food & Drug Administration and the Flavor & Extract Manufacturers Association considers propylene glycol to be Generally Recognized as Safe in food. It is found in sesame seeds and mushrooms; and is used in confection frostings, cheese and candy.
  ~
• Natural & Artificial Flavors Natural & artificial flavors are used with selected tobacco to generate a flavor that provides the cigarette brand style its own product integrity and point of differentiation.
  ~
• Sucralose [an intensely sweet, heat-stable derivative of sucrose that contains no calories]
  ~
  
• Sodium Chloride [common table salt]

Sucralose is the only sweetener listed.
There is no mention of NutraSweet or aspartame.




I'LL POST HERE ANY NEW INFORMATION I COME ACROSS

[ProudMarineDad]

That's cauz the American Tobacco companies don't want you to see the fiberglass press.

Oops too late. This just in from the back room of RJ Reynolds.

[Darwin]

The ingredients in Camel snus aren't the problem. The amounts and ratios are indeed a problem. First cut back the sucralose at least 50%, preferably more. Second increase the sodium carbonate, bicarbonate and chloride to a level high enough to get better nic uptake and a slight saltiness in the taste. Third make the portions the same size across the board and don't merely use more low nic tobacco in a larger portion a la the too-biggish Robust versions. Fourth expand the line with a citrus flavor. Doesn't have to be bergamot, orange/lemon/lime will do nicely. Fifth really fill the cans with the regular size portions. Ought to be able to get 20 portions in there without strain.

As far as nic goes I"ll eat someone's hat if Robust has 12mg of nic in it. This is the same as General Sterk which packs way more of a punch than Robust. Increasing the sodiums across the board will likely make the difference in Robust.

[snusgetter]

Information published for RJR's Camel Snus
has changed in the last 24 hours at
R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Company | Brand Compounds


Whereas Compounds and their Functions were initially listed,
only the Compounds (Ingredients) are now listed. The ingredients
have not changed but the functions of each ingredient no longer
is noted. I'm not sure of the importance of this, but felt it should
at least be noted here.

Maybe the site is only in the process of being updated?

Or was there a problem with the functions as they were listed?

If so, how long before the information is available once again?