Belgian Snus? Pure Makla

[chainsnuser]

Bruno, I don't know, if there is any tobacco-product, that needs to be chewed. I guess the name "chewing tobacco" originally was only chosen, because it sounds better than "sucking tobacco". :lol:

Isn't there also a nasal snuff from the producers of Makla, called Nefa Ifrikia? Besides of that, many people indeed confuse snuff with nasal snuff. Both are just niche-products in Western Europe along with most smokeless tobaccos. Even tobacconists are sometimes unaware.

Makla is certainly legal in Belgium. The unspeakably stupid and vague EU-directive that lead to the ban of snus, allows certain arrangements for so called "traditional" or local tobacco-products.

It isn't allowed to grow tobacco for private use in Belgium? That's really weird! I'd do it anyway. In case a police officer asks you, just say that it is a special variety of Cannabis! :lol:

I already thought about flavoring the cured tobacco with Vodka, Whiskey or Korn/Schnaps. No doubt, that the booze won't get better from that treatment, but hopefully the tobacco. I'll just do some experimentation. It will not be easy to get the nicotine-absorption that a good chewing tobacco or snus delivers, but regarding the Rustica plants, I guess the bigger problem will be not to get too much nicotine. I'll hopefully be wiser by the end of the year.

BTW, since you like the ritual of tobacco-preparation, the 'baking' of loose snus is worth trying.

Cheers!

[bruno]

Bruno, I don't know, if there is any tobacco-product, that needs to be chewed. I guess the name "chewing tobacco" originally was only chosen, because it sounds better than "sucking tobacco". :lol:

Reallly? You mean in Europa? I thought Americans have a smokeless tobacco you have to really chew, and which makes you spit ... ???

Isn't there also a nasal snuff from the producers of Makla, called Nefa Ifrikia? Besides of that, many people indeed confuse snuff with nasal snuff. Both are just niche-products in Western Europe along with most smokeless tobaccos. Even tobacconists are sometimes unaware.

Yes, Sifaco produces a nasal snuff called Neffa Ifrikia, but I did not yet found it. Outside Sweden, snus (literally snuff) is more and more used for oral snuff. I used both "makla" and "snus" for oral snuff. Most of the time I use "snus" for "north european makla" and "makla" for north african snus!

Makla is certainly legal in Belgium. The unspeakably stupid and vague EU-directive that lead to the ban of snus, allows certain arrangements for so called "traditional" or local tobacco-products.

Perhaps, but then you have to explain this to some policemen here. It could be just moral harassment (a national sport in Belgium), but I know at least one tobacco seller who got problems by selling Makla. Apparently the only one who sell snus (even sweedish snus) without problem in Brussels is the Swedish European depute Christoffer Fjellner, who does it with the hope to be arrested, and this for exposing the ridicul character of the european ban :lol:
Africans sell snus (makla) without any trouble. The least I can say is that the laws are unclear here.

It isn't allowed to grow tobacco for private use in Belgium? That's really weird! I'd do it anyway. In case a police officer asks you, just say that it is a special variety of Cannabis! :lol:

I already thought about flavoring the cured tobacco with Vodka, Whiskey or Korn/Schnaps. No doubt, that the booze won't get better from that treatment, but hopefully the tobacco. I'll just do some experimentation. It will not be easy to get the nicotine-absorption that a good chewing tobacco or snus delivers, but regarding the Rustica plants, I guess the bigger problem will be not to get too much nicotine.

Er ... come on ... :lol:

I'll hopefully be wiser by the end of the year.
BTW, since you like the ritual of tobacco-preparation, the 'baking' of loose snus is worth trying.

Baking the snus?!? What's that?

[aika]

Wow….what a loop hole in law, it seems like a dangerous precedent to allow one product of unknown ingredients to remain legal and outlaw another (snus) that lists its ingredients. Got to love big government.

Following this logic, it seems one could sell cans of Makla filled with pure uncut cocaine.

Sign me up for Coca Makla :twisted:

[bruno]

Sign me up for Coca Makla :twisted:

I guess you are doing an allusion to this youtube:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0ybp7gm80kQ

And I see "baking the snus" is well explained in youtube too:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=jUhgyUnsdBg

Pfiuuuuh, for a while I thought I have to put the snus in the oven! I like dry snus but not that much!

[chainsnuser]

Bruno, the spitting has less to do with the usage of the tobacco or with the amount of saliva produced, but with the toxicity of the fire-cured and fermented tobaccos, which are used traditionally for many chewing tobaccos and also for American dip. Snus in comparison is more like a seasoned vegetable that allows to simply swallow the saliva without getting sick. Additionally, the saliva production with snus is a little less in the first place.

You should really try Oliver Twist Original. Unlike snus it is noticeable in the stomach, but not as much that you would have to spit.

Yeah the baking of snus also has been discussed in this forum quite a lot. It is probably derived from the picture of children baking cakes from sand or mud. Besides of that, the word obviously is used in the Swedish language also for any kind of hardening or shaping of loose materials. The same in German, mainly in compound words. Maybe also in Dutch and French. It seems to be very unusual in English, though my dictionary states that 'to bake' and 'to harden' could be used in the same meaning. I guess, that if the word is used at all in that meaning then only by geologists or material-researchers. :roll:

There may be no explicit paragraph in the Belgian laws, but Makla is surely legal. The anti-snus-directive was made to hinder Swedish imports at a time, when Sweden was not yet a member of the EU. It was certainly not made to ruin local Belgian businesses. All German smokeless tobaccos (we still have a chew-producer and quite a vivid nasal-snuff-culture) are still absolutely legal. If a single merchant got problems from selling Makla then he obviously had to deal with some idiots or he made the mistake to call it snus. :roll:

Rustica has that much nicotine, 2 times more than the strongest variety of Virginian tobacco and up to 20 times more than the varieties, used in our modern "low nicotine, smoke more, pay more taxes, make the cigarette manufacturers rich and get lung-cancer much earlier" mandatory cigarettes. That's not the stuff, of which you would use a whole leaf or half a can at once. As a Makla-user, you certainly know better than me. I'll be cautious, that's for sure.

Cheers!

[sagedil]

btw guys, I have just loved reading this thread. And have learned a bunch new. I have book marked now where I can buy makla ifrikia. I am desperate to try it, just cause.. But will need to wait until I have a spare $35. Have been spending just a tad too much lately. But hopefully within the month

[bruno]

You should really try Oliver Twist Original. Unlike snus it is noticeable in the stomach, but not as much that you would have to spit.

I'm less sure now. What I prefer is the infinitesimally humid, strong nicotine product which nullifies the saliva production.
Ok I will think about it (just by scientific curiosity then

There may be no explicit paragraph in the Belgian laws, but Makla is surely legal.

I called three tobacco-and-only-tobacco sellers, and two says illegal, and one says legal. Hmmm... let us see by ourself googling a bit on the Belgian laws ... Ah! Here is a rather recent one 1990, modified in 1993, and 2005.

http://www.fares.be/tabac/documenter/legislation.php

Whaouh! I realize I can go smoking in my office tomorrow and in all public places! ... only, I have to smoke Turkish cigarettes! The law defines tobacco by "contains Nicotiana Tabaccum" (genetically modified or not btw). So if colleagues complains: I can say I don't touch tobacco anymore!
OK the laws have to be interpreted "reasonably" I guess ...
Hmmm... the rest is complex ... I will have to consult some experts in the laws.
Turkish cigarettes are the one made with the ... Nicotiana Rustica. I see.
Oh a very interesting site on Turkish Tobacco:

http://www.american.edu/ted/turkish-tobacco.htm

The anti-snus-directive was made to hinder Swedish imports at a time, when Sweden was not yet a member of the EU. It was certainly not made to ruin local Belgian businesses.

If you believe that the belgian Brussels has to follow the european "Brussels" to make bad decisions ... Especially for ruining belgian businesses, it's where we are the best.

All German smokeless tobaccos (we still have a chew-producer and quite a vivid nasal-snuff-culture) are still absolutely legal. If a single merchant got problems from selling Makla then he obviously had to deal with some idiots or he made the mistake to call it snus. :roll:

Nobody has ever heard the word "snus" here. Nobody. I have just been lucky a friend of mine came back from Swede with a box of Kronan portions to discover the notion. Even nasal snuff, which we know more, is still said frequently illegal.

Rustica has that much nicotine, 2 times more than the strongest variety of Virginian tobacco and up to 20 times more than the varieties, used in our modern "low nicotine, smoke more, pay more taxes, make the cigarette manufacturers rich and get lung-cancer much earlier" mandatory cigarettes.

I understand now my feeling of going from bicycle to Rolls Royce. It is the passage from having hardly any ways to smoke light "N. tabacum" because of lungs obstruction (or even just breath actually), to the unbounded nicotine delivery without any harm ...
... and this sold in an exceptionally cute box, less than one dollar.
I'm afraid I'm just dreaming.

That's not the stuff, of which you would use a whole leaf or half a can at once. As a Makla-user, you certainly know better than me. I'll be cautious, that's for sure.

You can train yourself with the Nick (& J) perhaps ... but as I you said, the more a cigarette has nicotine, the less harmful it is. And I tend to think that this could be true for the snus too. The trick is, as many already observed in the forum, to put the thing out of the mouth when you feel uncomfortable with it. This needs training and adaptation. Both for nasal and oral snuff it took me time to distinguish the levels of nicotine.
I got the headache only by taking the red bouhlel bentchicou (which, as I will understand later, is *quite* strong (even the Algerians run away from it!)) followed by a quite strong snuff ... Unless heart problems, or consumption by injection, I don't think you can have too much problem with the nicotine. I would worry more the 24, apparently, or 27, nitrosamine and related products (in case you really want to worry about something ...). I may be wrong. Perhaps consult in case of doubt. But just show me first you get any nicotine at all from your plant ...

[chainsnuser]

Bruno, I'm not talking about the long-term-effects of nicotine-use, but about the directly lethal dose, which is around 40mg. One gram of dried Nicotiana Rustica contains up to 160mg of nicotine, that's four times the lethal dose to kill(!) an adult. I wouldn't be afraid to take a prilla, because the nicotine-absorption is a somewhat slow process and I wouldn't get the whole 160mg at once, but I also wouldn't be amused, if I eventually swallowed a whole prilla of that.

Are you sure, that Turkish cigarettes are made from Rustica? There are MANY varieties of the Nicotiana tabacum species grown in Turkey. Russian cigarettes indeed are still made from Rustica. They're, of course, forbidden in our beloved "EU-bureaucratorship".

What I know is, that Rustica has been grown for centuries in the north of Northern America and also in Germany. It's still commercially grown here, not for human consumption (simply because it's forbidden by the EU; the EU apparently prefers a faster lung-cancer from chainsmoking "light"-cigarettes), but for insecticide-production. Since the nicotine is built in the roots of the plant, I don't think, that the shitty climate here in northern Germany wil have too much of an influence, the leaves will certainly not grow very big, but the nicotine-content will hopefully be o.K.

Cheers!

[bruno]

Chainsnuser, I must confess I am not sure i *know* anything. I found many sites identifying "turkish tobacco" with "tobacco made up from Nicotiana Rustica". The problem now, is that by wandering around "N. Rustica" I find sites saying:
1) N. Rustica as less nicotine and less carcinogenic molecules than N. Tabaccum.
Ex: http://www.american.edu/ted/turkish-tobacco.htm
2) N. Rustica has much more nicotine than N. Tabaccum (ex: wikipedia, but the references in the wikipedia stubb contradicts a bit the idea)
And many sites are saying things in between, some are mentionning different varieties of rustica, some affirming the Virginia tobacco are varieties of rustica, etc.
I am not so astonished. I have been misinformed on tobacco since my birth, and I'm afraid this will continue for a while. Tobacco has to navigate between anti-tobacco fanatics, trade's secrets, pharmaceutical lobbying, etc. Probably you know better.
Also, I think you should not be afraid to swallow nicotine, because the liver transforms it into an innocuous molecule. (Quite different in this respect with thc, which, when you eat it, is transformed by the liver into a much potent molecule as I'm sure most people know).
I wish the best for your plants! :wink: :wink:

[bruno]

btw guys, I have just loved reading this thread. And have learned a bunch new. I have book marked now where I can buy makla ifrikia. I am desperate to try it, just cause.. But will need to wait until I have a spare $35. Have been spending just a tad too much lately. But hopefully within the month

Meanwhile i give you tips. The makla has no Gothiatec quality label, and no last date of consumption. But it has an automated system instead!
First you should know that the (cute) little metallic box is always rusty. I guess this give the inimitable metallic flavor. With years passing by, the box is more and more rusty, and more and more hard to open. When you can no more open the box, it means the last-consumption-date is over. Time to put the little queen in the trash.
To open the box, you have to rotate the top and pull it up in a gentle way. Use force and violence only when the box has an already obvious super-rusty look. If you fail, send the box in the trash, or, if you just get the roll from the post, try to exchange it, or try to find another distributor.
Put the rolls in the fridge, like for any humid tobacco.

[chainsnuser]

I wish the best for your plants!

Thank you!

I know that I know nothing. Also I know, that it's hard to get real informations about tobacco, nowadays. Guess why I just try to grow my own tobacco!

Now that I've got a mature, blooming rustica-plant on my window-sill, I can only tell that the Turkish tobaccos (Samsun, Bafra etc.) all look like varieties of Virginan tobacco, while the Rustica looks totally different. I also can easily imagine, why the stems of Rustica are used. My window-sill-Virgina-plant has after two weeks leaves that are twice as big as the biggest leaves of my Rustica, which stands there since the beginning of April.

The hobby-tobacco-farmer and ebay-vendor, who sold me the tobacco-seeds, just told me, that his first pure-rustica-cigarette nearly knocked him out. That's maybe the best information, I have until now.

I promise, that I'll just chew a bit of an uncured fresh leaf as soon as I'm sure that it's ripe. Hopefully I then will still be able to post my experiences here, haha!

Cheers!

[chainsnuser]

So I justed chewed a fresh leaf of my Rustica-plant, about one third the size of a typical snus-pinch, yet theoretically enough nicotine to kill me, if I eventually swallowed it. Yeah, I expected to get the nicotine-rush of my life!

First I only let the leaf rest in my bottom lip, no messing around. No effect!
Then I chewed it gently. Fresh tobacco doesn't taste bad (at least the Rustica-variant, also known as 'Aztec tobacco'). In fact, it tastes almost exactly like butterhead lettuce, slightly spicy, very vegetable-like. Nicotine-wise: Still no effect!
Then I really chewed it. Still no noticeable effect.

Apart from the fact, that I also didn't get any nicotine-cravings in the process, this was just a big disappointment.

O.K., the plant just stood on my window-sill all the time, never was exposed to direct sunlight, never was attacked by bugs (a major nicotine-production-factor AFAIK) and maybe had the wrong soil.

The plants in the Garden look totally different, so I'm absolutely not giving up, but I must admit, that it's not impossible, that you're right, Bruno! Maybe it's really too difficult to grow a useable tobacco in this cold Northern European climate. I'll see.

Cheers!