High nicotine snus. Is it higher in WTAs too?

[Faylool]

I did search button. Nothing was there. Maybe I didn't do it right. I've been reading this forum every night for several weeks, more so lately because I was starting to get some idea that there were some pretty knowledgeable people floating around. And if I knew your tone of voice and you knew mine this whole stupid attempt on my part to start a thread I interesting and probably helpful to people who don't want to smoke anymore would have been nice. So. I don't consider myself to be cranky pants. Sorry. I'm just literal minded and not always patient. I suppose if a person wants results they have to have other skills than I have. No big deal. It's just a bunch of people anyway and we none of us are all perfect or anything. Gee I don't realize how I sound sometimes. At least in emails. Can't here the tone of voice and I don't you WTF guy so how am supposed to know your style? Anyway. If there is interest or somebody actually knows the answer to my question. Great. I'll check back. And keep looking. It's all good to me too. Except I kind of wasted everybody's time and didn't get anything accomplished except that maybe I come off like a cranky person. I'll have to work on that.

[Snusdog]

The relationship I'm interested in learning about is that of nicotine and whole tobacco alkaloids in a tobacco and the strength indicated. If it is high nicotine does it Necessarily mean it will be high WTA?

OK then.......now we are getting somewhere. Start here:

2.2.3 Alkaloids
Alkaloids are major components in tobacco leaves (0.5-5%), with nicotine as the predominant
compound (85-95% of the total alkaloids), which is discussed separately in the next section.
Other major alkaloids are nornicotine, anatabine, anabasine (Ramström 2000). As discussed in
section 2.2.7.1 in more detail, nicotine and other alkaloids can result in the formation of tobaccospecific nitrosamines (TSNA). There are also some indications that nornicotine may accumulate in the brain and contribute to the addiction associated with tobacco use (Crooks and Dwoskin 1997; Crooks et al. 1995; Bardo et al. 1999; all as cited in Stepanov et al. 2008a). Concentrations of tobacco alkaloids other than nicotine are not frequently reported in the literature. In a recent study of new and traditional smokeless tobacco products, Stepanov and colleagues (Stepanov et al. 2008a) also conducted analyses on one traditional Swedish snus brand (General). Nornicotine, anatabine, and anabasine concentrations were measured to be 0.223, 0.367, and 0.072 mg/g dry weight, respectively (Table A II-1a in Appendix II). Expressed as percentage of the total nicotine content, the levels were 1.3%, 2.2%, and 0.4%, respectively.

In a study that included analysis of three brands of snuff imported from Sweden on the market in 1989-1991, the research group of Hoffmann and Brunnemann reported nornicotine levels to be between 0.04 and 0.06% (0.4-0.6 mg/g) of the dry weight of the products. Total alkaloid levels ranged between 1.24 and 1.41% and included nicotine, nornicotine, mysomine, anatabine, anabasine, 2,3’-dipyridyl, and cotinine (Hoffmann et al. 1991a).

The rest of the Study is here (pages 17- 24)
http://www.swedishmatch.com/Document...%203-31-10.pdf

[rickcharles606]

Hmmm...it is an interesting question, and I'd be interested to find out the answer. High nicotine snus, is derived by using parts of the plant that are higher in nicotine, or they just use a higher nicotine tobacco itself in the final blend of tobaccos. The question YOU need to answer is do some tobacco plants have higher WTA's than others? Please let us know what you find out.

Now, your mini rants, well...they're just unproductive. Aren't they? Just sayin' ;-)

[Faylool]

I got this definition. Nice and short. WTA. A full spectrum mixture of all alkaloids extracted from whole tobacco. WTA can contain, in addition to nicotine, anabasine, cotinine, myosmine, anatabine and/or nor nicotine, in varying compositions, largely dependent on the tobacco species.

Voila! So the relationship im asking about is not there. And if I knew what tobacco species were highest in all the better alkaloids mentioned in this definition ( varying compositions being the point) I'd be g r o w I n g it or at least buying it to snus with. A lot of secrets to the ingredients of things for sale because they want to make there mark and get the following. It's a smart man who is going to pursue these "tobacco species" that have the highest whole tobacco alkaloid content.

[Faylool]

I agre. Yeah. Mini rants. Waste of time. At least I got piqued enough to do my own homework! So all's good still?

Hmmm...it is an interesting question, and I'd be interested to find out the answer. High nicotine snus, is derived by using parts of the plant that are higher in nicotine, or they just use a higher nicotine tobacco itself in the final blend of tobaccos. The question YOU need to answer is do some tobacco plants have higher WTA's than others? Please let us know what you find out.

Now, your mini rants, well...they're just unproductive. Aren't they? Just sayin' ;-)

[Faylool]

And then we need a tobacco expert who is feeling generous so I don't need to go and suck on a 100 different tobacco leaves from a 100 different species to find some great ones. I ean that would take a lot of time!

[Faylool]

This is te best source of info I've read. A little more simplified, in laymans terms but it isn't actually simple and I don't have the smarts. I could ask Ethan, hey...who is your organic tobacco supplier? Right. And he's going tell me, right? He's spent a lot years playing with it in his spare time plus he's a scientific mind. Very perfect about all measures. Us addicts, the guy I helped ( a little) and myself just want to get results....now. Anybody kow these "potent" species by any chance?

Whole tobacco alkaloid http://vapelicious.com/wta-faq/

[Snusdog]

Some varieties of tobacco have higher nicotine levels than others and certain parts of a plant will have higher levels than the other parts.

However, the question I think we are asking is not about the naturally occurring nicotine in a leaf or blend of leaves. Take two types of snus that use the same base blend. One is regular strength the other is extra strength. Both types will have the same level of naturally occurring Nicotine. Where they differ is in the amount of that nicotine that is free for absorption (Free Nicotine). This level is enhanced by the amount of PH introduced into the mix.

The question then is does Ph have the same freeing effect on other Alkaloids as it does on Nicotine

If it does then what we want is the "Free Alkaloid" levels.............since the naturally occurring levels of all Alkaloids (nicotine included) remain constant.

The report I linked to above has half that info (it lists the Alkaloid levels in SM snus). You would then need to search a few of the Alkaloids to determine their natural levels in tobacco and then the effect of their elevation.

However, that information (though not broken down by each specific alkaloid) is already provided in the TNSA/Carcinogen counts......since for snus Alkaloids are dealt with under that heading

The total Carcinogen count (inclusive of the alkaloid levels) is very low for snus (on par with common food products not considered a cancer risk).

So you have the starting point (Free Alkaloids levels).............. and the ending point (Carcinogen Count)

it is the specific breakdown of the middle details that seems to be what you lack. I think for most here though the bottom line result of the total Carcinogen count will be enough

[rickcharles606]

I've been told my more than one snus producer that the tobacco with the highest nicotine is grown in KY, not certain of the species though. I'm sure KY grows multiple species of tobacco, strong and mild alike.

For me, knowing that snus is the lowest in TSNA's is enough. You're question does raise a couple interesting ideas, regarding efficacy of snus in helping people get off of cigs. Maybe it's not just the nicotine, but a combination of nicotine and the WTA's. Not sure, but I'm going to ask a real scientist about this when I speak to him next week ;-) Keep posting results, it will help me forumlate my questions for my "scientist" friend he's an expert on tobacco and nicotine.

[Faylool]

That's making some sense and I need to learn more about each of the other alkaloids I'm interested in separate from nicotine since nicotine is soooo available! Cheaply! At least for now anyway still. But the good thing is this. I can probably safely snus or snuff lower nicotine ( average in my case) brands/flavors and still not be assuredly lowering the WTA. Possibly but not positively. Because frankly, nic makes we wired and I do not like that. I read somewhere if you pump up the nic it goes past making you wired and has the opposite effect. I have a problem with that because I don't want to put as much tolerable poison as possible in me to relax. Especially if I don't have to. And anyway, who knows if what I read had any truth to it. So much stuff to weed thru. I found the few WTA posts by spelling out the acronym! Hah. Have been told or what? Some good questions in tose posts. Too bad they all died so quickly. Well. If I find out anything positively and substantiated in my search I'll post back. I can't interpret scientific explanations very well so if I get a lot of that I'm going to let it go. Also I'm more interested in what snuff has in its tobacco lines than snus. But activity in the snuff section is slower. Must be patient.....

[Frosted]

Just woke up and saw this.....Jeeeeeeeezus.

Its all been said though.....

[squeezyjohn]

Me too Frosted!

The earlier part of this thread seems to be an ugly combination of things; on one hand some SnusOn lads being particularly patronising and a bit rude to a relatively new female member, and on the other hand - pretty hard technical questions being asked in a really "I demand my right to this information and I demand it now" kind of way.

Given that it started that way - I'm really proud of everyone that it got itself back on track the way it did!

How's about we try and keep a bit of good old fashioned manners in this forum amongst all the larking about?

[Frosted]

I dont understand. Really..... All that was asked was wtf wta's were cause we obviously didnt know.
Rude? Bollocks.

[daz]

faylool please pop over to the snus&health and read ,,my research,, this may help you some wot daz.

[squeezyjohn]

Rude? Bollocks.

Is that going to be your next username?