High nicotine snus. Is it higher in WTAs too?

[whalen]

WTA Pain......... Good technical question, but lacking sufficient patience. Actually a good read and interesting, but not really anything usefull for those who choose snus, Whatever WTA is necessary to satisfy my cravings, I get from almost any snus. Gotta love the internet though.....

[whalen]

OK, I just read the Marketing Drivel about WTA, and how you all want to buy them and why. oh yes why....... Got to love the presentation, got a shake weight science to it, I think that applying just a little more Internet filter would sort this out quickly.

[Faylool]

I actually got the answer to my question by doing my own homework as was suggested on here. I found the WTA posts by spelling it out in the search thing and there were an additional batch of very good questions but the answers weren't there and the threads died on first page. The link provided by snus dog gave me ideas for avenues by which to google some more. I'm pretty close to being satisfied with what info I've gotten for my purposes. I'm not going to be creating and making available some lovely new snus or snuff that has lower nicotine in relationship to the other "good stuff"
alkaloids but I'd love to see it done or find out if it has been done and buy that. This forum is used by suppliers to present their products too. The people who make their living doing this. Maybe they would be interesting in knowing that there really is a market for the relaxing aspects of some of the alkaloids found in tobacco and that nicotine itself is just one part of the picture. One part that if I get too much off agitates me and makes me wired. Not what I need.

[Ansel]

I have wondered the question you were asking too but i never found out an answer. I use snus for the WTAs and when i was on just nicotine in the patches i had an empty feeling.

[Skell18]

I have wondered the question you were asking too but i never found out an answer. I use snus for the WTAs and when i was on just nicotine in the patches i had an empty feeling.

Sounds like me with alcohol free beer

[Snusdog]

The reason no one knows about this on the Snus forum is because it is particular to the e-cig extraction process. In making the liquid for e-cigs they are trying to add back into the product certain alkaloids found in tobacco to enhance the flavor

Since snus is tobacco, there is no extraction--reintroduction of alkaloids.

The question is not relevant with snus

OK........in the spirit of being a good Snuson gentleman.........I do need to retract my first statement. I mistakenly thought Faylool was asking about snus and the reintegration of extracted WTAs.

As it should now be obvious her question is relevant...........and as it turns out it might very well be intriguing................especially for those with a low tolerance to nicotine................the elevation of WTAs in an otherwise low nicotine snus might provide an alternate trigger to help quit smoking

I think the SM study seems to indicate that the PH does elevate the Free Alkaloids. The question now seems to be threefold:

1) can the elevation of a particular Alkaloid be isolated (i.e. elevated with minimal effect on other Alkaloids)

2) is there a health risk involved with manipulating (elevating) the target Alkaloid(s)

3) will elevating non-nicotine Alkaloids trigger the desired physiological satisfaction needed to replace cigarettes


In the end……….my bet is that someone in the nicotine patch or e-cig industry already knows the answer to this.....my bet they have already sniffed down this path.............the e-cig industry might be easier to contact............I'd bump around medical reports on e-cigs (they are out there)...........I would be looking for the names of any scientists/chemists who contributed to the study and who work for the e-cig industry or support its cause (these names are included with the report............and usually give the company or School with which they work)................I would then google what I have and find the email for those persons (e.g. DrHiderbeth@MUSC.edu/Linda_Grimiff@BASF.com) and write them an email asking the question.

Before you send it...............Pm it to me and I will help you put it in a more academic, concise form

Finally.............how come everyone knew that Faylool is a girl but me.............(guess I'm heading back over to the virility/ED thread to have a closer read)

[Faylool]

Snus dog! You do have a way with words! Obviously I need help with that and thank you! I agree. I feel the answer is already out there just can't find it. Good ideas. Will do and see you later then

[Premium Parrots]

Snus dog! You do have a way with words! Obviously I need help with that and thank you! I agree. I feel the answer is already out there just can't find it. Good ideas. Will do and see you later then

you got lucky there.


usually Snusdog only suggests that you pray for an answer.
















inside joke...sorry

[whalen]

While dancing with a snake!

[stubby2]

I see I jumped in this a bit late and the question of what WTA is has been pretty well covered. I can give a little history on the subject as I was involved in the original discussion on WTA back in 2009 on the ECF. I'll try to keep it short as the long version is very involved.

This is the original thread where the idea of WTA came up

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/for...-nicotine.html

It's an extremely long thread, but if you have a real interest the first 25 pages are the most relevant. The questions came up because a percentage of e-cigs users where failing miserably, while others where having no problems. We where trying to figure out why. As the discussion continued it came to light that almost without fail, for those that failed with e-cigs, snus essentially completely solved the problem. So the question became, what was in snus that wasn't in e-liquid.

A chemist by the online name of DVap came up with the idea that the minor alkaloids in whole tobacco products might be a key to what was going on. They make up only about 5% of the total alkaloids with nicotine making up the rest. The minor alkaloids, though only a small percentage of the total, appear to have a potent synergistic effect with nicotine for some people.

DVap then went on the extract what is now called WTA (whole tobacco alkaloids) from tobacco and had a few volunteers with known issues with standard e-liquid try it out. To know ones real surprise they found WTA liquid to be a good deal more satisfying then standard nicotine only e-liquid. Just as a side note on this, DVap is a high level chemist with years of training and access to a high level lab. A WTA/nicotine extract in its pure form is deadly. A few drops on the skin will likely kill you. Don't try this at home.

It took over 2 years for someone to actually make WTA commercially available and it is a good deal more expensive then standard e-liquid. When it came out I decided to try some even though I hadn't used an e-cig for at least 3 years. It is clearly better then standard liquid, but after years of using snus I had no real reason to get to serious about it. You are still messing with all this silly electronic cigarette stuff. I gladly re-retired all of that again.

As for the original question, the answer is no one here knows. The other answer is that it doesn't matter. Snus has the minor alkaloids, satisfies any cravings, and we really don't need to get to deeply involved with the rest of it. It may be of some intellectual interest but beyond that it's of little value. Something to keep in mind is that the minor alkaloids very like work together with nicotine. I'm not at all sure it would be wise to be messing with the mix. It could well be that you wouldn't get more bang for the buck, but just another imbalance that would have it's own set of problems. A straight nicotine only e-cig has it's problems, and a product to high in minor alkaloids could have at least as many.

[Premium Parrots]

While dancing with a snake!

bingo!

[whalen]

Dancing with a snake, hauling out an oak log, wrestling with a python, you know, the usual snusdog euphemisms.

[Premium Parrots]

I see I jumped in this a bit late and the question of what WTA is has been pretty well covered. I can give a little history on the subject as I was involved in the original discussion on WTA back in 2009 on the ECF. I'll try to keep it short as the long version is very involved.

This is the original thread where the idea of WTA came up

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/for...-nicotine.html

It's an extremely long thread, but if you have a real interest the first 25 pages are the most relevant. The questions came up because a percentage of e-cigs users where failing miserably, while others where having no problems. We where trying to figure out why. As the discussion continued it came to light that almost without fail, for those that failed with e-cigs, snus essentially completely solved the problem. So the question became, what was in snus that wasn't in e-liquid.

A chemist by the online name of DVap came up with the idea that the minor alkaloids in whole tobacco products might be a key to what was going on. They make up only about 5% of the total alkaloids with nicotine making up the rest. The minor alkaloids, though only a small percentage of the total, appear to have a potent synergistic effect with nicotine for some people.

DVap then went on the extract what is now called WTA (whole tobacco alkaloids) from tobacco and had a few volunteers with known issues with standard e-liquid try it out. To know ones real surprise they found WTA liquid to be a good deal more satisfying then standard nicotine only e-liquid. Just as a side note on this, DVap is a high level chemist with years of training and access to a high level lab. A WTA/nicotine extract in its pure form is deadly. A few drops on the skin will likely kill you. Don't try this at home.

It took over 2 years for someone to actually make WTA commercially available and it is a good deal more expensive then standard e-liquid. When it came out I decided to try some even though I hadn't used an e-cig for at least 3 years. It is clearly better then standard liquid, but after years of using snus I had no real reason to get to serious about it. You are still messing with all this silly electronic cigarette stuff. I gladly re-retired all of that again.

As for the original question, the answer is no one here knows. The other answer is that it doesn't matter. Snus has the minor alkaloids, satisfies any cravings, and we really don't need to get to deeply involved with the rest of it. It may be of some intellectual interest but beyond that it's of little value. Something to keep in mind is that the minor alkaloids very like work together with nicotine. I'm not at all sure it would be wise to be messing with the mix. It could well be that you wouldn't get more bang for the buck, but just another imbalance that would have it's own set of problems. A straight nicotine only e-cig has it's problems, and a product to high in minor alkaloids could have at least as many.

good post. easy to understand. thanks stubby.

thats enough for me

[whalen]

Good post Stubby2.........Snus works for me......

[Faylool]

Well I don't see it serves a purpose to put a lid on a simple search for higher WTA lower nic /snuff/snus/tobacco. You could be right about it causing problems just like isolating the nic and using alone does cause problems for some. I don't see the point at all really but thank you again Stubby. I'm aware you are very educated in all of it. Why wouldn't you want keep learning? I was really hoping to get lucky and have anybody who knew tell us that hey, didn't you know that such and such tobacco from where ever is the actual species that produces the highest WTA and lowest nic? But like snus dog said, the variable amounts are probably not significant enough to make much difference and that is probably because nature is maintaining that synergistic relationship. I am not the only person who gets too wired sometimes and Doesnt like it. I've got that covered most the time though probably because I'm vaping a whole whole lot less. I love vaping BTW so to each his own. I'm reading some posts suggested to me on hear and so on. It's purposeful. Its interesting.