Help Me Buy A Car?

[Mordred]

Help me buy this car............

Send your donations today!

Nah, if we're asking for donations, this is what I'd like:

[Thunder_Snus]

If it is your first car I would stick with Honda, Toyota and some Fords. Make sure it is a model they produced a lot of like a Corolla or Focus and that way aftermarket parts will be cheap and plentiful. Stay far away from European brands. They are fun to drive but a lot of them use premium gas and will cost you $500 for a small repair. Stay further away from Dodge. Also remember, the price of gas isn't likely to go down. Getting a car with 30 mpg or better will pay off at the pump.

This is why im looking at kia (hyundai is still in the mix but the confusing packages for addons and slightly higher price throws me off) I'm willing to pay for the extended warranty. I've put probably 5 thousand in the taurus over the past 8 months. I don't want a car that "shouldn't break down" I want one that is fixed free "if it breaks down" While i do hear wonderful things about Honda's being reliable....its not a stretch to assume i'd get stuck paying out the ass for the one that isnt as reliable.

It's really not a matter of price for me as in what I can or can't afford. I can afford all the cars I am interested in....I just dont want to pay more than I should have.

[Thunder_Snus]

Just to chime in, don't get a Kia Sorento. I had one on loan when my car was being fixed (somebody rear-ended me), and it was a POS. It was slow and handled poorly. About the only "good" thing about it was that it had a soft suspension, but that's not even necessarily a positive.

My parents were just in town and i drove around their 12 sorento a little bit. I liked the feel. I'm not sure which one you drove. It was much touchier on the gas and brakes than my taurus but maybe thats how all cars are now. I'd just have to see. Just being honest with myself I plan to test drive the 13 optima and the 14 sorento. I like the idea of the 14 forte but i just don't feel like it will be big enough. I'm about 6'0 but prefer to have a roomier vehicle.

[Thunder_Snus]

Honestly if I were to buy a new car and I knew what make and model and options I wanted, plus a good idea of the market value of the car in advance I would buy it just like a business would buy it, and that would be with a competitive bid process to at least two (preferably 3) dealers who sell the same car.

It doesn't have to be formal bid sheet, it can be a letter, email, or even as informal as over the phone (preferable to deal with the Sales Manager, so you don't deal with some flunky having to ask his boss everything.)

Detail what you want exactly in terms of the specs of the car and ask for a price from each dealer...their best offer. You want them knowing they are bidding against other sellers, it is to your advantage. Leave the cash down part out and the trade in until you get a price. Frankly your better off selling you used car for cash before, but not a deal breaker either way. Every dealer is going to want to talk monthly payment in person, and you want a price for the vehicle in writing. Financing should never be discussed without a price set already ever. When you get three offers take the best one, walk in with it, and take care of the formalities of the deal which is when to reveal the down payment.... OK this is the price you gave me and I want to pay such and such amount in cash down and what will you give me for my trade.

You may be surprised at the differences in what is submitted back to you, I bought fleet vehicles for companies this way and saw differences in price that were glaring on the same exact models.

The best thing is you don't even have to go there until you get the best offer by letter or e-mail and you stay in charge. They are probably going to BS you and say you have to come down to get a price but tell them you got a price from someone else that way and thanks anyway, goodbye. They'll give you an offer more than likely.

I don't know if this would work in terms of enough dealers close enough in proximity to you to make it convenient for you, that is a factor.

But overall I think this is the way to go if it were me.

Definitely good advice. Although I know I won't cave for a bad deal in any situation, i feel my best way to negotiate would be by email. As far as location....that'd kind of a dealbreaker. I can definitely contact 3 different places but besides for bloomington the closest dealership would either be peoria(am paranoid to drive there) and places a few hours north near chicago(also doesnt seem like fun to drive there) I feel I can atleast get prices from the 3 but the ultimate idea would be to get the best price from the local dealership even if they are a couple hundred more than competitors

[Riggins44]

Definitely good advice. Although I know I won't cave for a bad deal in any situation, i feel my best way to negotiate would be by email. As far as location....that'd kind of a dealbreaker. I can definitely contact 3 different places but besides for bloomington the closest dealership would either be peoria(am paranoid to drive there) and places a few hours north near chicago(also doesnt seem like fun to drive there) I feel I can atleast get prices from the 3 but the ultimate idea would be to get the best price from the local dealership even if they are a couple hundred more than competitors

Sure and you can do that, get an estimate from the guys further away, just to make sure your local dealer isn't out of line. If it's a few hundred bucks probably dealing with the local guy is best for service etc.

And if your local dealer is significantly higher you can show them your other lower price as a negotiating chip.

They don't need to know you don't intend to go out of town to buy it. Good luck with the purchase.

[devilock76]

Hmm couple of things.

1. Any place that is a dealership used or new is going to come out ahead, just a fact. No matter how good a deal you got, once you walk out the door they will high five each other at your expense, they wouldn't sell the car if they didn't.
2. that 1.9 rate I am sure is new car only, used car rate will be higher by on average 2 points.
3. Buying private does have its own risks and hassles as well, they are just different than a dealership.
4. The used car market is a mess right now. There is a huge gap of nothing between the 200K+ POS you wouldn't want to own to the over priced barely used where you might as well buy new.
5. New cars do carry a better warranty, to some that is worth it.

As to cars:

1. Used or other wise if you are in the small car market I would stay 2007 or newer. Timing belt interference engines are fazing out of the market and newer timing chain engines will have a longer useful life with less major repair cycles to the primary power train.
2. Manual is always better than automatic.
3. KIA and Ford have some good deals but I hear from mechanic friends in the industry that the build quality is down right now and they would avoid it. Most of GM looks uninspiring. Hyundai is actually a solid car these days, per mechanics and owners.

That being said I broke a lot of those rules on my own lately when I recently bought a 2012 Elantra Touring. It was technically used, I got it at a great price. It is a timing belt engine though as that is the last model they had (2012 was the last year) still using the Beta engine instead of the Theta engine. Still the pros of that model out weighed that con and I bought it with only 5k on the clock so I will be prepared for when that maintenance item needs to be done. My concern about timing belts is for any car at 80k or better without maintenance records indicating the timing belt was done (if a timing belt engine). Any car 80k or more without proof of that job you should assume needs that done within 20k or less. If you are not a mechanic it is a pricey job on many cars. At the same time the water pump should be done as well and full shop prices could make that a $1000 maintenance ticket on most modern DOHC engines. Just something to keep in mind.

If you don't do it and the belt goes on an interference engine (most of the timing belt engines still on the road seem to be interference engines) then you risk it failing in a way that kills the engine, bent rod typically. That basically means you will need a new engine which again at shop prices you could pay anywhere from 2-5k for that on most current cars.

All prices USD by the way.

Ken

[Thunder_Snus]

Hmm couple of things.

1. Any place that is a dealership used or new is going to come out ahead, just a fact. No matter how good a deal you got, once you walk out the door they will high five each other at your expense, they wouldn't sell the car if they didn't.
2. that 1.9 rate I am sure is new car only, used car rate will be higher by on average 2 points.
3. Buying private does have its own risks and hassles as well, they are just different than a dealership.
4. The used car market is a mess right now. There is a huge gap of nothing between the 200K+ POS you wouldn't want to own to the over priced barely used where you might as well buy new.
5. New cars do carry a better warranty, to some that is worth it.

As to cars:

1. Used or other wise if you are in the small car market I would stay 2007 or newer. Timing belt interference engines are fazing out of the market and newer timing chain engines will have a longer useful life with less major repair cycles to the primary power train.
2. Manual is always better than automatic.
3. KIA and Ford have some good deals but I hear from mechanic friends in the industry that the build quality is down right now and they would avoid it. Most of GM looks uninspiring. Hyundai is actually a solid car these days, per mechanics and owners.

That being said I broke a lot of those rules on my own lately when I recently bought a 2012 Elantra Touring. It was technically used, I got it at a great price. It is a timing belt engine though as that is the last model they had (2012 was the last year) still using the Beta engine instead of the Theta engine. Still the pros of that model out weighed that con and I bought it with only 5k on the clock so I will be prepared for when that maintenance item needs to be done. My concern about timing belts is for any car at 80k or better without maintenance records indicating the timing belt was done (if a timing belt engine). Any car 80k or more without proof of that job you should assume needs that done within 20k or less. If you are not a mechanic it is a pricey job on many cars. At the same time the water pump should be done as well and full shop prices could make that a $1000 maintenance ticket on most modern DOHC engines. Just something to keep in mind.

If you don't do it and the belt goes on an interference engine (most of the timing belt engines still on the road seem to be interference engines) then you risk it failing in a way that kills the engine, bent rod typically. That basically means you will need a new engine which again at shop prices you could pay anywhere from 2-5k for that on most current cars.

All prices USD by the way.

Ken

Although I know very little about cars, that is very insightful to know. I still think I have my heart set on a kia...although the elantra looks like a great competitor to the optima.
The 1.9 is kind of a flat rate my employers credit union always offers employees for car loans as long as their credit isnt atrocious though.

[Thunder_Snus]

Welp. I plan on pulling the trigger on this as soon as the taurus needs another repair (probably between 2 weeks and 2 months from now just an estimate). I created a fake gmail account where I can really be a dick to people if need be so I can haggle for the lowest price these people have to offer. So atleast i can get a feel for how low they will go

Any other advice is definitely appreciated. I know I should wait til the end of the month for the absolute best deal but I figured starting on the 1st wouldn't be bad

[BadAxe]

So I guess a good follow up question would be this. I dont want to spend all day at the dealership when i decide to buy. I talk to people all the time at the insurance company i work for that say they have been at the dealership for up to 6 hours. Although I don't live in the bronx or philadelphia where most of these people say that I can't imagine its too drastically different here. Would it be unwise to decide which car i want, tell the guy(or girl) That i know i get x amount in incentives and that i just want to see a number for the car after my trade in and incentives and see if its anywhere close to what I have in mind?

I see countless people posting about keeping things secret but i plan to have a number in my head when i go there and I just want to see if they can come close. I don't want to keep my trade in a secret or the fact I already have financing. If disclosing that information will let the dealer "screw" me out of 200 extra bucks for what I want so be it. If I think 20k is an acceptable number after incentives and tradeins and other stuff and they're at 24 I can always leave. I will not be pressured or bullied into an unfair price. I just dont want to spend all day slowly disclosing that I have a trade-in.....and pre approved financing.....and this and that and whatever. Am I crazy for this mindset?

Also Rick, I have to agree with snotgiff here. As far as msrp and market price go there is a difference of maybe 1thousand betwen a 12 and a 13....and maybe 500 between an 11 and a 12. I plan on having the car for probably 10 years and at that point the initial depreciation wont mean a thing.

You are gonna be there for bout 4 hours minimum, period. No matter what you do. No matter who you inform, no matter what you pre-plan.

I lease my cars. So I am back at the dealership every 3 years. I finally (been leasing since 1996) have it down to about a 3 hour expereince. But it took years with the same salesman to get it down to 3 hours. I call him in advance and let him know I am coming. We pick the car the first night I go. I usually know what model I want, and just need to decide on color and features. So it takes me bout an hour to pick it out. I then tell him I am leaving and to get the car and all of the paperwork READY for the next day, so I can be in and out. (Salesman do not WANT you to leave ,and I can only do this now, that he knows me and knows I am coming back).

Even with all that preparation, I am always there for at least 2 hours as I have to wait, then sign a stack of paperwork, then wait a little longer, than off to one other person for signing. Then wait for them to bring the car around, then some last minute words with the salesman, the outta there.

Being a first time new car buyer, yep, you are gonna be at the dealer for a while no matter what anyone tells you, so just plan for it now. If I am wrong, you are pleasantly surprised, instead of thinking you can get in and out and get frustrated 3 1/2 hours later when you are still there.

[devilock76]

Although I know very little about cars, that is very insightful to know. I still think I have my heart set on a kia...although the elantra looks like a great competitor to the optima.
The 1.9 is kind of a flat rate my employers credit union always offers employees for car loans as long as their credit isnt atrocious though.

Kia is owned in part by Hyundai, and some of their cars look good to me. But like I said the word from a mechanic friend is they are just "not as well put together as Hyundais at this time". Hyundai has come a long way since the days of the Excel...

Anyway current Kia's are probably using the same engine options as comparable Hyundais, so power train should be equitable. In your 4 cylinder non hybrid that means the Theta engine which is a decent economical performer that uses a timing chain which is good for the long term. I think the Ford Ecoboost engine and the turbo they put in the dart are more inspiring performers though, I would probably rate the Theta engine a better long term option. On a side note from Hyundai I love the Veloceter (sp?) turbo. If I did not need a third seatbelt in the back and the extra space in the wagon that is the touring I would have seriously considered that car.

One other bit of advice. No one ever lost money walking off a car lot. Just saying.

Ken

[Thunder_Snus]

the cars i want is msrp at 30k. I put in an online offer for 25. With trade in rebates and a down payment of 2500 i want the total amount i will need a loan for at about 22. The dealership emailed me back asking for information some were college student based rebates(that i will qualify for) some are hinting at a trade in....what is my next move snuson?

[devilock76]

Welp. I plan on pulling the trigger on this as soon as the taurus needs another repair (probably between 2 weeks and 2 months from now just an estimate). I created a fake gmail account where I can really be a dick to people if need be so I can haggle for the lowest price these people have to offer. So atleast i can get a feel for how low they will go

Any other advice is definitely appreciated. I know I should wait til the end of the month for the absolute best deal but I figured starting on the 1st wouldn't be bad

What is wrong with your taurus. And what year. I mean I know they aren't the greatest car in the world but over all they tended to be fairly reliable. I owned a Sable years back. Biggest weakness in them was the water pump which is a pain in the v6 model and again it is a timing belt engine so you might as well do both. Also the torque convertor on the automatic had a lot of issues with the lock up function where the best solution was just to disable the lock up and keep driving. And that is more of a best of the worst vs a good solution. Of course that is not talking about the SHO models which are amazing but a total mechanical nightmare to work on.

Seriously all cars are a headache, but there is something to be said for the headache you know.

Ken

[devilock76]

the cars i want is msrp at 30k. I put in an online offer for 25. With trade in rebates and a down payment of 2500 i want the total amount i will need a loan for at about 22. The dealership emailed me back asking for information some were college student based rebates(that i will qualify for) some are hinting at a trade in....what is my next move snuson?

Get all the numbers without the trade in in play. Then bring the trade in in play. Based on how that changes the numbers figure if you can quick sell your trade in for more. And like I said before be prepared to walk away. When I bought my Harley they tried to really quibble over one of my last deal points so I got up and said look, if you want to sell this today you know my number and started walking towards the door.

Ken

[YfirBaggari]

Not sure if this has been said yet but, make the dealer know that you're allready looking somewhere else and you're getting a decent price there.
You should also look for a stick shift car, as they are usually cheaper when they're "brand" new.
Don't be afraid of haggling!

Hope that helps.

P.s. not sure what cars you have in mind but remember to look at the "gas spending" of the car (not sure what english word I can use here, think it's mpg?)
You'll def. not want an old BMW or Mercedes unless you've got an garage and like tinkering/fixing or you've got alot of money to spend on maintenance.

[wa3zrm]

NEVER BUY A NEW CAR...no matter what you pay, the moment you leave the dealership, you just ate a shit sammich in depreciation. Go buy a nice used vehicle and pocket the difference. Also, you don't have to worry about eating the initial depreciation...the first owner already ate that.

For what it's worth, I agree.