Help Me Buy A Car?

[Thunder_Snus]

What is wrong with your taurus. And what year. I mean I know they aren't the greatest car in the world but over all they tended to be fairly reliable. I owned a Sable years back. Biggest weakness in them was the water pump which is a pain in the v6 model and again it is a timing belt engine so you might as well do both. Also the torque convertor on the automatic had a lot of issues with the lock up function where the best solution was just to disable the lock up and keep driving. And that is more of a best of the worst vs a good solution. Of course that is not talking about the SHO models which are amazing but a total mechanical nightmare to work on.

Seriously all cars are a headache, but there is something to be said for the headache you know.

Ken

The taurus has been an absolute nightmare for the past year and a half.
I know very little about mechanicals in cars but something was wrong with the tires like they were hitting the top of the car? and then the bearings? needed replacing and something with the axle. Then a list of several other things seemed to happen every 6 weeks costing atleast 300 bucks a pop and then a week ago the AC pump? went out and it cost me about 700 to fix because (i believe fords?) have to have some crazy shit done to them to fix this issue. I know my parents experienced the same thing on their fusion. Something that cost 100 for a part ended up having to cost like 500 in labor.

also its an 06 se

[GoVegan]

Hmm couple of things.

1. Any place that is a dealership used or new is going to come out ahead, just a fact. No matter how good a deal you got, once you walk out the door they will high five each other at your expense, they wouldn't sell the car if they didn't.
2. that 1.9 rate I am sure is new car only, used car rate will be higher by on average 2 points.
3. Buying private does have its own risks and hassles as well, they are just different than a dealership.
4. The used car market is a mess right now. There is a huge gap of nothing between the 200K+ POS you wouldn't want to own to the over priced barely used where you might as well buy new.
5. New cars do carry a better warranty, to some that is worth it.

As to cars:

1. Used or other wise if you are in the small car market I would stay 2007 or newer. Timing belt interference engines are fazing out of the market and newer timing chain engines will have a longer useful life with less major repair cycles to the primary power train.
2. Manual is always better than automatic.
3. KIA and Ford have some good deals but I hear from mechanic friends in the industry that the build quality is down right now and they would avoid it. Most of GM looks uninspiring. Hyundai is actually a solid car these days, per mechanics and owners.

That being said I broke a lot of those rules on my own lately when I recently bought a 2012 Elantra Touring. It was technically used, I got it at a great price. It is a timing belt engine though as that is the last model they had (2012 was the last year) still using the Beta engine instead of the Theta engine. Still the pros of that model out weighed that con and I bought it with only 5k on the clock so I will be prepared for when that maintenance item needs to be done. My concern about timing belts is for any car at 80k or better without maintenance records indicating the timing belt was done (if a timing belt engine). Any car 80k or more without proof of that job you should assume needs that done within 20k or less. If you are not a mechanic it is a pricey job on many cars. At the same time the water pump should be done as well and full shop prices could make that a $1000 maintenance ticket on most modern DOHC engines. Just something to keep in mind.

If you don't do it and the belt goes on an interference engine (most of the timing belt engines still on the road seem to be interference engines) then you risk it failing in a way that kills the engine, bent rod typically. That basically means you will need a new engine which again at shop prices you could pay anywhere from 2-5k for that on most current cars.

All prices USD by the way.

Ken

That's funny, I broke the same rules and bought a 2011 Elantra Touring about 3 months ago. It wasn't what I was looking for, I really wanted a Subaru Impreza but after test driving the Elantra Touring I had to have it. It's as roomy as an SUV, I can load it up with lots of stuff when I go camping and I get well over 30 MPG. I swore to myself that I would never be a Korean car but that all changed with the Elantra Touring. As for the timing best, I found an ASE certified mechanic who charges me $60.00 hour to fix my car out of his garage. I am thinking it should be less than $500 with parts unless I go to the dealer.

[Thunder_Snus]

That's funny, I broke the same rules and bought a 2011 Elantra Touring about 3 months ago. It wasn't what I was looking for, I really wanted a Subaru Impreza but after test driving the Elantra Touring I had to have it. It's as roomy as an SUV, I can load it up with lots of stuff when I go camping and I get well over 30 MPG. I swore to myself that I would never be a Korean car but that all changed with the Elantra Touring. As for the timing best, I found an ASE certified mechanic who charges me $60.00 hour to fix my car out of his garage. I am thinking it should be less than $500 with parts unless I go to the dealer.

I keep looking at the elantra.....everytime im getting ready to look at it again i say to myself "this time is will look more like what I want" but somehow it never does. I'm not sure what it is. I think it is something about the shape that I just do not like

[GoVegan]

I keep looking at the elantra.....everytime im getting ready to look at it again i say to myself "this time is will look more like what I want" but somehow it never does. I'm not sure what it is. I think it is something about the shape that I just do not like

Did you look at the Elantra Touring? It's very different than the Elantra. The car is very practical and will haul just about anything with ease. I love it but I am still not sure if Hyundai's are reliable or not. I will let you know in 2 years. In the meantime I have AAA plus. I do 35-40k a year.

[Premium Parrots]

Did you look at the Elantra Touring? It's very different than the Elantra. The car is very practical and will haul just about anything with ease. I love it but I am still not sure if Hyundai's are reliable or not. I will let you know in 2 years. In the meantime I have AAA plus. I do 35-40k a year.

But how many blue barrels will fit in the back? HUH??


Hyundai beat the hell out Yogo years ago....that was pretty easy for them tho. The last few years Kia has been doing a dam good job and giving Hyundai a run for their money. ATM I'd still prefer the Hyundai because I believe they make a slighty higher quality vehicle. I've driven both when renting autos at the airports....and beat the shit out of them. And I'm always amazed at how either can make such a nice car for the price. Tho I believe every make of auto is way over priced. Think about what you could buy new 40 years ago for...say, $6000. Makes me sick.

Go with whoever has the best warranty.


As far as negotiating....I always bring a baseball bat and a jar of vasoline when I go to a dealership to buy a car. Toss em at the salesperson and get him in the proper mood. Seriously, the salesperson lightens up and then you can really talk to them. It works.

I have always bought new cars and trucks, always. But the quality of the vehicles offered today and the warranties are much better than years ago. I may not ever buy a new car again because the prices are so crazy...just to get your ass from one place to another. Cars just don't mean that much to me anymore. Buying a used auto I dam sure would buy an extended warranty if I need to because no matter what kind of auto you buy the cost to repair it is crazy....even for little things and regular service like brakes and such.

Good luck mate.

BTW, if you are interested in a late model MG Midget I have one for sale. But its not quite the family car....unless of course, your family are all little people.
http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/cto/3905034804.html

[GoVegan]

I am still not trusting Hyundai and I hope my car proves me wrong. I remember a while ago seeing lots of Hyundai's and Volkswagons listed in the mechanics special section of the paper. Usually with a blown head gasket or some other expensive repair that needed to be done.

[Mordred]

My parents were just in town and i drove around their 12 sorento a little bit. I liked the feel. I'm not sure which one you drove. It was much touchier on the gas and brakes than my taurus but maybe thats how all cars are now. I'd just have to see. Just being honest with myself I plan to test drive the 13 optima and the 14 sorento. I like the idea of the 14 forte but i just don't feel like it will be big enough. I'm about 6'0 but prefer to have a roomier vehicle.

It was an older model, either 2009 or 2010, not sure. It was comfortable but it felt like I was driving a sleigh pulled by a herd of rhinos. That said, I drive a Subaru WRX STI, so maybe I'm not the person to talk to about reasonable cars. Although, if you can pick up one of those second-hand, it's a blast to drive and has plenty of room in the back, gas mileage be damned.

[devilock76]

The taurus has been an absolute nightmare for the past year and a half.
I know very little about mechanicals in cars but something was wrong with the tires like they were hitting the top of the car? and then the bearings? needed replacing and something with the axle. Then a list of several other things seemed to happen every 6 weeks costing atleast 300 bucks a pop and then a week ago the AC pump? went out and it cost me about 700 to fix because (i believe fords?) have to have some crazy shit done to them to fix this issue. I know my parents experienced the same thing on their fusion. Something that cost 100 for a part ended up having to cost like 500 in labor.

also its an 06 se

Kind of sounds a lot like over due maintenance items. Typical in this day and age. You can have that with any car. But yeah labor will always burn you, and unless you can turn a wrench yourself you better learn to stomach it.

Ken

[devilock76]

That's funny, I broke the same rules and bought a 2011 Elantra Touring about 3 months ago. It wasn't what I was looking for, I really wanted a Subaru Impreza but after test driving the Elantra Touring I had to have it. It's as roomy as an SUV, I can load it up with lots of stuff when I go camping and I get well over 30 MPG. I swore to myself that I would never be a Korean car but that all changed with the Elantra Touring. As for the timing best, I found an ASE certified mechanic who charges me $60.00 hour to fix my car out of his garage. I am thinking it should be less than $500 with parts unless I go to the dealer.

It is a underrated gem that sold poorly here and why it got discontinued here. In Europe it is the i30 and it is well regarded there. Here it only came with the beta 2 engine option but over there they have the diesel options. The car handles like a euro spec car and is amazing. It is not what I was looking for at the time but was just a more solid feeling car than anything else I looked at. Handles like a dream, good midrange torque for what it is and incredible useful and practical interior space. At 6'5" I can sit in the back seat with the front seat adjusted for where I need it to drive. I. Short I can sit behind myself in the car and that is amazing in this class.

Since it is discontinued it may be tough to find in the states. But unless you need that extra space of the touring you can consider the elantra gt instead. The current gt has less room and stateside handling specs. But being that it has the newer theta engine it gets better mileage and power than the touring. Also it is a timing chain engine. Incidentally I checked the service interval n the beta 2 and Hyundai calls for it to be changed every 4 years or 60k, which ever comes first.

Hyundai should really bring the i40 here...

Anyway I have heard the touring called the poor mans Sport wagon. Honestly I call it the smart mans sport wagon. I take it to gigs and can fit half the pa (subs mains and one monitor) as well as my full bass rig and keyboards in the car. Or I can take a family of 5 with our stuff in it for a long weekend trip easily.

Ken

[Thunder_Snus]

But how many blue barrels will fit in the back? HUH??


Hyundai beat the hell out Yogo years ago....that was pretty easy for them tho. The last few years Kia has been doing a dam good job and giving Hyundai a run for their money. ATM I'd still prefer the Hyundai because I believe they make a slighty higher quality vehicle. I've driven both when renting autos at the airports....and beat the shit out of them. And I'm always amazed at how either can make such a nice car for the price. Tho I believe every make of auto is way over priced. Think about what you could buy new 40 years ago for...say, $6000. Makes me sick.

Go with whoever has the best warranty.


As far as negotiating....I always bring a baseball bat and a jar of vasoline when I go to a dealership to buy a car. Toss em at the salesperson and get him in the proper mood. Seriously, the salesperson lightens up and then you can really talk to them. It works.

I have always bought new cars and trucks, always. But the quality of the vehicles offered today and the warranties are much better than years ago. I may not ever buy a new car again because the prices are so crazy...just to get your ass from one place to another. Cars just don't mean that much to me anymore. Buying a used auto I dam sure would buy an extended warranty if I need to because no matter what kind of auto you buy the cost to repair it is crazy....even for little things and regular service like brakes and such.

Good luck mate.

BTW, if you are interested in a late model MG Midget I have one for sale. But its not quite the family car....unless of course, your family are all little people.
http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/cto/3905034804.html

Damn PP if i was looking for a weekend car i would snatch that up......but on top of a new car and tutition/books coming up soon I'd be stretching myself pretty thin with that car as well

[Thunder_Snus]

Kind of sounds a lot like over due maintenance items. Typical in this day and age. You can have that with any car. But yeah labor will always burn you, and unless you can turn a wrench yourself you better learn to stomach it.

Ken

Like I said. I know nothing about cars. I have a trusted family friend and mechanic about a half hour north. Whenever I'm getting into the range of needing an oil change and I have time I take it there. sometimes i'm not quite due for an oil change yet. Always ask them to perform an inspection. You obviously know about cars a lot better than i do but I really dont think its overdue maintenance when everything is happening every few weeks for the past 18 or so months.

[devilock76]

Like I said. I know nothing about cars. I have a trusted family friend and mechanic about a half hour north. Whenever I'm getting into the range of needing an oil change and I have time I take it there. sometimes i'm not quite due for an oil change yet. Always ask them to perform an inspection. You obviously know about cars a lot better than i do but I really dont think its overdue maintenance when everything is happening every few weeks for the past 18 or so months.

You know working on cars is really not that hard. I mean ok yeah some things really do call for a professional and some modern computer systems there is no easy tinkering with on a car. But most people are capable of doing more self diagnosis repair and maintenance than they give themselves credit for. For example, an oil change. Any able bodied person should be able to easily do that job with the proper tools on hand, and the proper tools aren't that expensive.

Just saying... I know not the point of all this. But I am a computer programmer by trade, but I in my youth I spent plenty of time around the shop and still help out friends who became mechanics instead of office stiffs (and sometimes I envy them). I often tell people debugging a program and fixing a car are the exact same skill sets with slightly different mediums, in the end it is basic problem solving.

Ken

[Thunder_Snus]

You know working on cars is really not that hard. I mean ok yeah some things really do call for a professional and some modern computer systems there is no easy tinkering with on a car. But most people are capable of doing more self diagnosis repair and maintenance than they give themselves credit for. For example, an oil change. Any able bodied person should be able to easily do that job with the proper tools on hand, and the proper tools aren't that expensive.

Just saying... I know not the point of all this. But I am a computer programmer by trade, but I in my youth I spent plenty of time around the shop and still help out friends who became mechanics instead of office stiffs (and sometimes I envy them). I often tell people debugging a program and fixing a car are the exact same skill sets with slightly different mediums, in the end it is basic problem solving.

Ken

That statement puts me further off cars. My first 2 years of college my teachers would tell me how much smaller cleaner and better my algorithms were but that my basic programming design and knowledge was shit. Thats why i eventually switched to economics.

They're offering me 2500 for my car....better than what i expected and thats just their starting point i should be able to get it up to 3....my only problem is thats probably what tax/tag/licensing will cost me so its kind of a wash. The first price he offered me was nothing but the "extreme price" something listed as being lower than msrp with my rebates deducted, that brings it down to about 27500. Thats without tradein which i assume will be near a wash after tax/tag etc is added on. I'm wondering how much lower i should be going, because that is basically 2k off of msrp of 32 and then rebates deducted....would it be unreasonably to try to talk him down to 24?

[Riggins44]

The taurus has been an absolute nightmare for the past year and a half.
I know very little about mechanicals in cars but something was wrong with the tires like they were hitting the top of the car? and then the bearings? needed replacing and something with the axle. Then a list of several other things seemed to happen every 6 weeks costing atleast 300 bucks a pop and then a week ago the AC pump? went out and it cost me about 700 to fix because (i believe fords?) have to have some crazy shit done to them to fix this issue. I know my parents experienced the same thing on their fusion. Something that cost 100 for a part ended up having to cost like 500 in labor.

also its an 06 se

I'm surprised to hear about a Taurus being that bad, we had a 2002 and ran it up to 180,000 miles with virtually no repairs other than common stuff like brake pads and batteries, I gave it to our niece and it's still going around town with over 200K miles. The fuel pump crapped out for her, but that's not too bad considering. I'd never owned a Ford before that, maybe they are crappy and I got lucky, but I certainly got my moneys worth.

[Premium Parrots]

That statement puts me further off cars. My first 2 years of college my teachers would tell me how much smaller cleaner and better my algorithms were but that my basic programming design and knowledge was shit. Thats why i eventually switched to economics.

They're offering me 2500 for my car....better than what i expected and thats just their starting point i should be able to get it up to 3....my only problem is thats probably what tax/tag/licensing will cost me so its kind of a wash. The first price he offered me was nothing but the "extreme price" something listed as being lower than msrp with my rebates deducted, that brings it down to about 27500. Thats without tradein which i assume will be near a wash after tax/tag etc is added on. I'm wondering how much lower i should be going, because that is basically 2k off of msrp of 32 and then rebates deducted....would it be unreasonably to try to talk him down to 24?

$32K msrp for a Kia, Hyundai? That's freaking crazy.

You can't find an American made car that's quality built for under....say, $25k? I looked at chevys and a few others 2 years ago and there were plenty to choose from. $32K for a Kia? Kill me now. When I drove the Kias and Hyundais they were nice cars but, come on, they shouldn't be the same cost or more than an auto that's well known for being quality built. I expect a Honda or Toyota to be a bit more than other comparable cars because they ARE better built.....but not the Kias or Hyundais.

sorry for the mini rant but apparently I'm getting too dam old and I am not adjusting to the new economics very well. Some things have gone down in price while others never stop costing more and more.