MORE ABOUT The Differences Between Snus and American Smokeless

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  • mattzq8sonoma
    Member
    • Sep 2014
    • 104

    MORE ABOUT The Differences Between Snus and American Smokeless

    I've been meaning to type something like this for a while. I'm an analytical chemist at Swedish Match and I am very familiar with our processes in both Snus and American Dip.

    On the main page, there's the link to "The Differences Between Snus and American Smokeless", which is a pretty decent explanation, albeit some of the information is incorrect. So I'm typing this as a clarification, and addition. Here goes:

    Many people have asked this simple question, "what's the difference is between Swedish snus and American dip?" To Americans, they look similar, come in similar cans and both are used orally but that’s where the similarities end! To really understand the differences, we need to start with how they both are made.

    American Dip, or Smokeless, is made from tobaccos that are strictly from U.S. grown tobaccos from places like North Carolina, Virginia, Kentucky and West Virginia among others
    Not always true, matter of fact that is mostly false. Most American dip is a blend of tobacco's from all over the world. A lot of companies say "100% American grown tobacco" or something on those lines. Some do say "50% Domestic/50% Imported Tobacco". Some do say "100% Domestic" or "100% US" so this is somewhat true. The word "American" is too vague because a lot of tobacco comes from Canada, Mexico, Central America, South America. All of these are considered "American". Copenhagen for instance is 100% American, but 70% US and 30% Brazilian. Swedish Match American Dip brands have tobacco from the US, Canada, Philippines, Italy, Argentina, etc. while Swedish snus uses a variety of different tobaccos from across the globe, including the U.S.! Although both go thru a similar, initial drying process, the American version adds another step here which makes it unique. Piles of sawdust, primarily from Oak or Hickory, are lit and allowed to smolder in the barn. This generates smoke that flavors the tobacco. After that, the smoked, dried tobacco is placed in barrels and allowed to ferment for up to 5 years to develop its character.Ferment here in this sentence is wrong. "Aged" is what should be there. Much like wine or cheese or bourbon, except in those cases the aging process happens after fermentation. Wine and cheese and bourbon are aged to mature the flavor components that are present. American Dip has the flavors added later. Fermentation is after the tobacco is cut & water and salt & other flavor components are added. Water is added to make the fermentation possible, and salt is added so that the fermentation is selective because a lot of microorganisms can't survive in high salinity. Those microbes are not wanted for the fermentation step and the salt will kill most of them. Some companies do moisten and then ferment whole leaves then dry them, then cut but that's not standard practice. That's more of a cigar leaf thing, like the Italian Toscano cigars. After that its cut, flavors and sweeteners are added and then it’s canned.

    Swedish snus is processed much differently. Tobaccos from around the world, including the U.S. and Sweden, are chosen and bypass the smoking
    Traditionally, snus did use fire-cured tobacco. Swedish Match products since around 1980 have NO fire-cured tobacco. Instead they use air-cured and flue-cured tobacco, much like cigarettes, which are lower in TSNA's and other harmful constituents, because of the curing process. To compensate for the loss of the smoky flavors from fire-cured tobacco, artificial smoke flavors are added, which took years and years to perfect because most of those flavors are very fake tasting and smelling. I can't speak for any other snus manufacturers as far as their use of fire-cured tobacco, but Swedish Match snus products contain no fire-cured tobacco. and fermenting. These tobaccos are mixed and stored in a cool warehouse for about 2 years before they are ground together. The grinding process resembles the flour making process that grinds the grain between steel wheels. It’s then sifted and reground until the right consistency is achieved. After that, the ground tobacco is dried and moved into a steam chamber to cure"Cure" is not the right word here. The tobacco is already cured. A more accurate word is "Pasteurize". It's put in a steam chamber under pressure and heat to kill anything that's growing in it and, more importantly, to also kill spores that are present from spore-forming bacteria, which are the primary microbes that can reduce Nitrate to Nitrite. Nitrite plus Nicotine and other Nicotine alkaloids and amines = Nitrosamines. at a low temperature and then moved into flavoring vats. After that, it’s packaged and placed in a cool room for up to 2 weeks to allow the flavors to combine.

    The major difference between Swedish snus and American dip is the safety factor. Swedish snus has a considerably lower amount of Tobacco Specific Nitrosamines (TSNA’s), which is a carcinogen, than American Dip. This is due to the omission of the smoking and fermentation steps that American Smokeless brands go thru and the low temperatures that Swedish snus is kept. That’s why Swedish snus is recommended to be stored in temperatures between 38 and 42 degrees Fahrenheit.
    Snus is refrigerated just to keep the flavor fresh. It has nothing to do with nitrosamine production. Because of the pasteurization step, an unopened can will not rise in nitrosamine content when not refrigerated because the microbes that aid that process aren't present. They are refrigerated because there are no preservatives present, although Propylene Glycol does have preservative properties in tobacco, and the refrigeration helps keep the flavor the way that it is supposed to be.

    Thanks for reading, any questions, let me know.

    Matt
  • Skell18
    Member
    • May 2012
    • 7067

    #2
    Excellent write up Matt! Thanks for that

    Comment

    • MojoQuestor
      Member
      • Sep 2009
      • 2344

      #3
      Wow, Matt, great information. Thanks for all the clarifications.

      I have a question. If I had a can of, say, Swedish Match snus that had been in the freezer for, oh, four or five years, would it still be safe to use?

      It would certainly still taste good, I can vouch for that.

      Comment

      • Snusdog
        Member
        • Jun 2008
        • 6752

        #4
        Matt! Thanks for the great write up

        Very informative.

        I'm going to put a copy of this over on the dipper's guide.
        When it's my time to go, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like my uncle did....... Not screaming in terror like his passengers

        Comment

        • mattzq8sonoma
          Member
          • Sep 2014
          • 104

          #5
          Originally posted by MojoQuestor View Post
          Wow, Matt, great information. Thanks for all the clarifications.

          I have a question. If I had a can of, say, Swedish Match snus that had been in the freezer for, oh, four or five years, would it still be safe to use?

          It would certainly still taste good, I can vouch for that.
          You're welcome .

          I'm glad you asked that because I can help you with that, and I can also add another reason why snus is refrigerated or frozen to keep it fresh.

          The answer is yes, it is safe to use. We don't do any shelf-life testing out that far, because the Best By date on the cans is based on a worst case scenario of storage conditions, not the other way around. So if a can says Best By November 12th, 2014, that means if you keep it stored in a desert or a jungle or some other extreme of high humidity or high heat or a combination of the two, it will still be good until that date. So if it's stored under ideal conditions, it can stay fresh much longer than the best by date. The snus will still be good if it's kept at or below -11*C...which is about 12*F. Most freezers are below that temperature. By putting the snus in the freezer you are essentially stopping the shelf-life at that point, and halting most changes that would occur during normal storage. Depending on the can that the snus is in, and exactly how long it's been in storage, it may lose some moisture because the freezer is very dry. This brings me to the other point. Snus is refrigerated also to stabilize the pH. The pH of the tobacco is a huge determiner of the nicotine delivery. The higher the pH, the more nicotine. The older the tobacco is, the more the pH will drop over time, so the less nicotine you can get from it. So the colder it is stored, the longer you can stabilize the pH and have a product that will deliver like it's supposed to in the nicotine department.

          So yes it will still be good, however it may be a little bit drier, and the pH will be lower than a newly made fresh can.

          Comment

          • Kaplan
            Member
            • May 2011
            • 203

            #6
            What do you recommend as the best method for raising the pH in an old can of snus?

            Comment

            • MojoQuestor
              Member
              • Sep 2009
              • 2344

              #7
              Awesome, Matt. Thanks tons.

              Comment

              • BlackBart
                Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 115

                #8
                thanks for the info

                Comment

                • Burnsey
                  Member
                  • Jan 2013
                  • 2572

                  #9
                  Great info, thanks

                  Comment

                  • mattzq8sonoma
                    Member
                    • Sep 2014
                    • 104

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Kaplan View Post
                    What do you recommend as the best method for raising the pH in an old can of snus?
                    I've never thought of that before, or ever heard of anyone considering that. The pH buffers that are added to snus and moist snuff, to get them to the desired pH, are carbonates...sodium carbonate, magnesium carbonate and/or ammonium carbonate. I don't think those are too readily available to the average person other than sodium carbonate (aka soda ash) which is used to raise the pH in swimming pools. I would NOT recommend adding those yourself AT ALL. But rhetorically speaking if you want to "experiment" with it, you would only need a very very very small amount to achieve a significant rise in the pH. Like 0.5mg in a few mL of water and then drizzle over the top, mix sufficiently and allow to equilibrate in the can for a couple hours and mix again before using. But like I said, I would definitely not recommend that at all. Anything else that would raise the pH isn't really kosher, so to speak. They would be things like the active ingredients in dish detergent and household cleaners, so, not something I would want to have in my mouth. Snus to me is about having a safe tobacco product, so doing this yourself without the proper equipment isn't safe at all.

                    Comment

                    • Kaplan
                      Member
                      • May 2011
                      • 203

                      #11
                      I wouldn't do any of those things. I actually prefer portions not to be too fresh. I was actually just expecting an answer like mist it with distilled water and let it sit for a day, but you never know until you ask. I was interested to see your comments about the "best before" date and that TSNA levels don't increase. I try to use common sense and otherwise never even look at the date.

                      Comment

                      • MojoQuestor
                        Member
                        • Sep 2009
                        • 2344

                        #12
                        I just took inventory of my freezer. I have 150+ cans and pouches (mostly cans) of snus that I now don't have to throw out, thanks to Matt. And so far it all tastes pretty good--even better now that I don't have that "uhh, I'm not so sure about this" feeling lurking in my brain

                        As to why I have so much snus from 2009 & early 2010--well, it's a long story.

                        Comment

                        • Frankie Reloaded
                          Banned Users
                          • Jan 2011
                          • 541

                          #13
                          I think this thread should be made "sticky" by the admins, because it provides good help to all of us who freeze our snus.

                          Thank you, mattzq8sonoma.

                          Comment

                          • vogi tobacco
                            Member
                            • Sep 2014
                            • 78

                            #14
                            Originally posted by MojoQuestor View Post
                            I just took inventory of my freezer. I have 150+ cans and pouches (mostly cans) of snus that I now don't have to throw out, thanks to Matt. And so far it all tastes pretty good--even better now that I don't have that "uhh, I'm not so sure about this" feeling lurking in my brain

                            As to why I have so much snus from 2009 & early 2010--well, it's a long story.

                            Lucky you. I am only sitting on about 13. (and 40 empties. haha)

                            Comment

                            • whalen
                              Member
                              • May 2009
                              • 6593

                              #15
                              There is a good reason the whole lower half of my freezer has getsnus stickers on all of the cans.
                              Great post BTW.
                              wiki "Popcorn Sutton" a true COOT!

                              Comment

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