General Variation Smoky Oak

[mattzq8sonoma]

Anybody tried it? My wife's cousin has dipped Copenhagen snuff for years and has recently gotten into snus, and he ordered some General Smoky Oak from SnusCentral because of a review on SnusCentral saying it tasted like Copenhagen. He says it tastes like the review says...like Copenhagen only less salty. Any thoughts?

[Smart]

I love it! Really good. But i can't compare with cope. Are u sure it's from snusline?? Haven't seen it in there store though.

[Burnsey]

I had a roll of Smoky Oak and enjoyed it. I've heard the Copenhagen comparison, but it is lost on me as I have never dipped.
I liked the flavor, very smoky, but the General taste is still there in the background and tobacco comes through as well........after 45 minutes or so it's all over, not a bitter flavor at that point, but the flavor is pretty much gone.

[Andy105]

I don't know what Copenhagen tastes like either, but if Smokey Oak tastes similar, it would be a natural offer for their US sales in stores. More so than Nordic Mint (ugh).

[mattzq8sonoma]

I love it! Really good. But i can't compare with cope. Are u sure it's from snusline?? Haven't seen it in there store though.

Sorry...I meant SnusCentral. It was late when I was typing that

I ordered some to try. Andy, it would be a good one for the US if that's the case. We'll see...

[squeezyjohn]

I can see what they mean when they say that Smoky Oak has a similar taste ... and the smokiness is very similar ... but the rest of the flavour of this general is way milder than Cope. Copenhagen has a massive, rich, salty-sweet, fermented taste which I don't think it's possible to completely re-create in a snus.

[mattzq8sonoma]

I can see what they mean when they say that Smoky Oak has a similar taste ... and the smokiness is very similar ... but the rest of the flavour of this general is way milder than Cope. Copenhagen has a massive, rich, salty-sweet, fermented taste which I don't think it's possible to completely re-create in a snus.

My experience with snus, compared to moist snuff, is that snus flavors are much more subtle, yet more complex...in this case especially because we're comparing a portion snus to a loose moist snuff...they don't kick you in the face with a huge amount of flavor. Instead you get a slow subtle flavor that's very complex & deep. The flavors make me think, like drinking a good beer. Moist Snuff doesn't really do that for me because they're very one-dimensional. If Smoky Oak was available in Los, that would be a better comparison, as far as not just taste but also amount of flavor and how fast you get it. I haven't experienced this snus yet, but the saltiness (I don't get sweet from Copenhagen...but we're all different) will be a big difference, which also plays into the amount of flavor.

I'm very curious though. Anybody else tried it?

[Skell18]

I love smoky oak, it's my favourite of the variation series, a definite regular for me. It tastes nothing lol Copenhagen to me, cope has its own unique taste, as does smoky oak. Smoky oak has a nice leathery taste, like the scent of old Paris snuff, is there arak in smoky oak?

[mattzq8sonoma]

I love smoky oak, it's my favourite of the variation series, a definite regular for me. It tastes nothing lol Copenhagen to me, cope has its own unique taste, as does smoky oak. Smoky oak has a nice leathery taste, like the scent of old Paris snuff, is there arak in smoky oak?

Very very doubtful, although I don't know any SM snus recipes at all, so I can't say for sure. Probably licorice combining with other flavors to give you that thought.

[codyg140]

Done a can of this now and it's pretty good. Don't really get the cope comparison myself, I find the flavour a bit muted, just taste a little toned down.

[skogsmulle]

The difference between american snuff and snus is that snuff like copenhagen is really more of a chewing tobacco. Imo you cant compare them. And because of how theyre manufactured snus is gonna have alot lower tsna levels which is the stuff they think gives you cancer.

[Snusdog]

The difference between american snuff and snus is that snuff like copenhagen is really more of a chewing tobacco. Imo you cant compare them. And because of how theyre manufactured snus is gonna have alot lower tsna levels which is the stuff they think gives you cancer.

While this is true it is not AS true as it once was

Pinkerton dips (Redman, Timber Wolf, and Longhorn) all have a TNSA count of 5 compared to the Swedish Standard of 4.........and like Snus the levels don't increase with shelf life.

No surprise though Pinkerton is owned by Swedish Match. That said I think most American Dip makers have followed suit and changed the way they process the tobacco.

Regardless, I think snus is much easier on the gums (primarily due to cut and hydration %)

[mattzq8sonoma]

No surprise though Pinkerton is owned by Swedish Match. That said I think most American Dip makers have followed suit and changed the way they process the tobacco.

Snus TSNA levels are lower than Snuff TSNA levels not primarily because of the processing difference, but more in the selection of and type of tobacco used and the way it is handled at harvest, curing, and drying...all of which is done mostly by the farmers, but 100% by people other than the big tobacco manufacturers. Understanding the chemistry of how TSNA's are formed, which is from a bunch of R&D, trial & error, & chemical analysis all along the way, tobacco companies have learned at what stages TSNA's are formed in the tobacco leaves and what is causing it. IE. #1 Wet tobacco at time of harvest means higher TSNA's, #2 Fire-cured tobacco has more TSNA's (among other carcinogens) because of the way it is cured. #3 "Anaerobic" fermentation (which to a chemist sounds redundant) makes the facultatively bacteria responsible for tobacco fermentation want to reduce Nitrate to Nitrite as an oxygen source. Nitrite, combined with nicotine and nicotine alkaloids, produces nitrosamines. This process happens very easily in vitro & in vivo so if you eat a lot of meats that contain sodium nitrate or sodium nitrite and use a lot of nicotine, this same thing will happen inside of you.

All that said, most of TSNA's are formed while the tobacco is in the farmer's possession still, so understanding what, when, how farmers do what they do and getting them to use standardized best practices, means better tobacco from a health standpoint. Snus manufacturers have the ability to select the best tobacco from the best farmers and places, which is where the majority of the difference comes from. The vast majority of Most snus doesn't have fire-cured tobacco anymore so that's one way of getting less of the bad stuff. As for snuff...yes, during fermentation, if it isn't done properly, TSNA levels can increase, but that process is understood (by most...but not all ) and somewhat under the control of tobacco companies who are doing it, so undesired consequences of fermentation can be minimized. I could go on and on, but I will stop there...for now.

[Snusdog]

tobacco companies have learned at what stages TSNA's are formed in the tobacco leaves and what is causing it. IE. #1 Wet tobacco at time of harvest means higher TSNA's, #2 Fire-cured tobacco has more TSNA's (among other carcinogens) because of the way it is cured. #3 "Anaerobic" fermentation (which to a chemist sounds redundant) makes the facultatively bacteria responsible for tobacco fermentation want to reduce Nitrate to Nitrite as an oxygen source. Nitrite, combined with nicotine and nicotine alkaloids, produces nitrosamines.

What you described is what I meant by the misnomer "processing"

What I did not realize in your post is that Tobacco companies have much looser control over the the farmer's role in the whole process than I would have thought. I can understand smaller upstart companies that have to forage for what they can get having less of a say (if any at all) ......but I would have suspected big tobacco companies have pretty strict vendor policies that require their
suppliers to meet certain quality control standards or lose their contract.

Anyway, matt.....good to see ya....great post......insightful as always

[mattzq8sonoma]

What you described is what I meant by the misnomer "processing"

What I did not realize in your post is that Tobacco companies have much looser control over the the farmer's role in the whole process than I would have thought. I can understand smaller upstart companies that have to forage for what they can get having less of a say (if any at all) ......but I would have suspected big tobacco companies have pretty strict vendor policies that require their
suppliers to meet certain quality control standards or lose their contract.

Anyway, matt.....good to see ya....great post......insightful as always

Tobacco companies do have some say, and pretty strict guidelines for vendors. Farmers aren't considered vendors because farmers sell to suppliers and tobacco companies buy from the suppliers. There is some communication between farmers and tobacco companies, but mainly just about good practices. And the farmers can't always do what's best for the tobacco companies 100% of the time. So some of the chemical properties are out of their control and others are out of anyone's but God's control. Ex. I said wet tobacco in the field as it's being cut and spiked will increase TSNA's. If it's going to rain for 5 days straight days somewhere and the farmer needs to harvest right now, he's not going to leave it in the field and pay his migrant workers for 5 days to sit and wait and do nothing. They're gonna cut it. It's what's best for the farmer, not what's best for the tobacco quality. But that's why tobacco companies do get to cherry pick a little bit, but you gotta do the analysis to figure out what's best and that's very expensive and time consuming. American Snuff, in my opinion, doesn't care at all, they buy whatever they can get that's US grown and cheap (probably usually the stuff we reject). Other companies do a bunch of chemical analysis to make sure they're getting not just good looking tobacco, but tobacco with safe chemical properties as well. IE. what type of tobacco and where the tobacco comes from, and soil types and climate difference and legal fertilizer/pesticide types used, and different countries have different ways of curing, etc etc. It's pretty overwhelming.