Bill passes House again...

[RobsanX]

I'm not sure what is different about this bill and the one that passed last year, but the House voted again to ban shipping tobacco in the mail...

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...lo8JwD98APQL80

This bill did not reach the Senate last year. If a bill does not pass the Senate, does the House have vote on it during the next session?

[sagedil]

And every session thereafter.

[Snusdog]

Well this does not sound good at all. Does anybody know how it would impact us in snus world?

Cigarettes and smokeless tobacco products could no longer be mailed through the U.S. Postal Service except in limited case

What is "limited cases"? and where do I file for limited case status?

Private delivery companies already have agreed not to ship tobacco products

What? I get pipe tobacco via UPS all the time

Seriously is this something to be worried about?

[RobsanX]

Here are some links to the discussion we had last year:

http://www.snuson.com/viewtopic.php?t=2853
http://www.snuson.com/viewtopic.php?t=2573

[justintempler]

I'm not going post the whole bill, just section 3

The Full Bill is here: Information about bill H.R. 1676

H.R.1676
PACT Act (Engrossed as Agreed to or Passed by House)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SEC. 3. TREATMENT OF CIGARETTES AND SMOKELESS TOBACCO AS NONMAILABLE MATTER.

(a) In General- Chapter 83 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by inserting after section 1716D the following:

`Sec. 1716E. Tobacco products as nonmailable

`(a) Prohibition- All cigarettes and smokeless tobacco (as those terms are defined in section 1 of the Act of October 19, 1949, commonly referred to as the Jenkins Act) are nonmailable and shall not be deposited in or carried through the mails. The United States Postal Service shall not accept for delivery or transmit through the mails any package that it knows or has reasonable cause to believe contains any cigarettes or smokeless tobacco made nonmailable by this subsection. For the purposes of subsection (a) reasonable cause includes--

`(1) a statement on a publicly available website, or an advertisement, by any person that such person will mail matter which is nonmailable under this section in return for payment; or

`(2) the placement of the person on the list created under section 2A(e) of the Jenkins Act.

`(b) Exceptions- This section shall not apply to the following:

`(1) CIGARS- Cigars (as that term is defined in section 5702(a) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986).

`(2) GEOGRAPHIC EXCEPTION- Mailings within the State of Alaska or within the State of Hawaii.

`(3) BUSINESS PURPOSES- Tobacco products mailed only for business purposes between legally operating businesses that have all applicable State and Federal Government licenses or permits and are engaged in tobacco product manufacturing, distribution, wholesale, export, import, testing, investigation, or research, or for regulatory purposes between any such businesses and State or Federal Government regulatory agencies, pursuant to a final rule that the Postal Service shall issue, not later than 180 days after the date of the enactment of the Prevent All Cigarette Trafficking Act of 2009, which shall establish the standards and requirements that apply to all such mailings, which shall include the following:

`(A) The Postal Service shall verify that any person submitting an otherwise nonmailable tobacco product into the mails as authorized by this paragraph is a business or government agency permitted to make such mailings pursuant to this section and the related final rule.

`(B) The Postal Service shall ensure that any recipient of an otherwise nonmailable tobacco product sent through the mails pursuant to this paragraph is a business or government agency that may lawfully receive such product.

`(C) The mailings shall be sent through the Postal Service's systems that provide for the tracking and confirmation of the delivery.

`(D) The identities of the business or government entity submitting the mailing containing otherwise nonmailable tobacco products for delivery and the business or government entity receiving the mailing shall be clearly set forth on the package and such information shall be kept in Postal Service records and made available to the Postal Service, the Attorney General, and to persons eligible to bring enforcement actions pursuant to section 3(d) of the Prevent All Cigarette Trafficking Act of 2009 for a period of at least three years thereafter.

`(E) The mailings shall be marked with a Postal Service label or marking that makes it clear to Postal Service employees that it is a permitted mailing of otherwise nonmailable tobacco products that may be delivered only to a permitted government agency or business and may not be delivered to any residence or individual person.

`(F) The mailing shall be delivered only to a verified adult employee of the recipient business or government agency, who shall be required to sign for the mailing.

`(4) CERTAIN INDIVIDUALS- Tobacco products mailed by adult individuals for noncommercial purposes, including the return of a damaged or unacceptable tobacco product to its manufacturer, pursuant to a final rule that the Postal Service shall issue, not later than 180 days after the date of the enactment of the Prevent All Cigarette Trafficking Act of 2009, which shall establish the standards and requirements that apply to all such mailings, which shall include the following:

`(A) The Postal Service shall verify that any person submitting an otherwise nonmailable tobacco product into the mails as authorized by this section is the individual identified on the return address label of the package and is an adult.

`(B) For a mailing to an individual, the Postal Service shall require the person submitting the otherwise nonmailable tobacco product into the mails as authorized by this subsection to affirm that the recipient is an adult.

`(C) The package shall not weigh more than 10 ounces.

`(D) The mailing shall be sent through the Postal Service's systems that provide for the tracking and confirmation of the delivery.

`(E) No package shall be delivered or placed in the possession of any individual who is not a verified adult. For a mailing to an individual, the Postal Service shall deliver the package only to the verified adult recipient at the recipient address or transfer it for delivery to an Air/Army Postal Office (APO) or Fleet Postal Office (FPO) number designated in the recipient address.

`(F) No person shall initiate more than ten such mailings in any thirty-day period.

`(5) EXCEPTION FOR MAILINGS FOR CONSUMER TESTING BY MANUFACTURERS- Subject to paragraph (8), nothing in this Act shall preclude a legally operating cigarette manufacturer operating on its own or through its legally authorized agent from using the Postal Service to mail cigarettes to verified adult smokers solely for consumer testing purposes, provided that--

`(A) the cigarette manufacturer has a federal permit, in good standing, pursuant to section 5713 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986;

`(B) any package of cigarettes mailed pursuant to this paragraph shall contain no more than 12 packs of cigarettes (240 cigarettes);

`(C) no individual shall receive more than 1 package of cigarettes per manufacturer pursuant to this paragraph in any 30-day period;

`(D) all taxes on the cigarettes levied by the State and locality of delivery have been paid to the State and locality prior to delivery, and tax stamps or other tax-payment indicia have been affixed to the cigarettes as required by law;

`(E)(i) the recipient has not made any payments of any kind in exchange for receiving the cigarettes;

`(ii) the recipient is paid a fee by the manufacturer or manufacturer's agent for participation in consumer product tests; and

`(iii) the recipient, in connection with the tests, evaluates the cigarettes and provides feedback to the manufacturer or agent;

`(F) the mailing is made pursuant to a final rule that the Postal Service shall issue, not later than 180 days after the date of the enactment of the Prevent All Cigarette Trafficking Act of 2009, which shall establish standards and requirements that apply to all such mailings, which shall include the following:

`(i) The Postal Service shall verify that any person submitting a tobacco product into the mails pursuant to this paragraph is a manufacturer permitted to make such mailings pursuant to this paragraph, or an agent legally authorized by the manufacturer to submit the tobacco product into the mails on the manufacturer's behalf.

`(ii) The Postal Service shall require the manufacturer submitting the cigarettes into the mails pursuant to this paragraph to affirm that the manufacturer or its legally authorized agent has verified that the recipient is an adult established smoker who has not made any payment for the cigarettes, has formally stated in writing that he or she wishes to receive such mailings, and has not withdrawn that agreement despite being offered the opportunity to do so by the manufacturer or its legally authorized agent at least once in every 3-month period.

`(iii) The Postal Service shall require the manufacturer or its legally authorized agent submitting the cigarettes into the mails pursuant to this paragraph to affirm that the package contains no more than 12 packs of cigarettes (240 cigarettes) on which all taxes levied on the cigarettes by the State and locality of delivery have been paid and all related State tax stamps or other tax-payment indicia have been applied.

`(iv) The mailings shall be sent through the Postal Service's systems that provide for the tracking and confirmation of the delivery and all related records shall be kept in Postal Service records and made available to persons enforcing this section for a period of at least 3 years thereafter.

`(v) The mailing shall be marked with a Postal Service label or marking that makes it clear to Postal Service employees that it is a permitted mailing of otherwise nonmailable tobacco products that may be delivered only to the named recipient after verifying that the recipient is an adult.

`(vi) The Postal Service shall deliver the mailing only to the named recipient and only after verifying that the recipient is an adult.

`(6) DEFINITION OF CONSUMER TESTING- For purposes of this Act, the term `consumer testing' means testing limited to formal data collection and analysis for the specific purpose of evaluating the product for quality assurance and benchmarking purposes of cigarette brands or sub-brands among existing adult smokers.

`(7) DEFINITION OF ADULT- For purposes of paragraph (5), the term `adult' means an individual of at least 21 years of age. For purposes of paragraphs (3) and (4), the term `adult' means an individual of at least the minimum age required for the legal sale or purchase of tobacco products as determined by applicable law at the place the individual is located.

`(8) LIMITATIONS- Paragraph (5) shall not--

`(A) permit a mailing of cigarettes to an individual located in any State that prohibits the delivery or shipment of cigarettes to individuals in the State, or preempt, limit, or otherwise affect any related State laws; or

`(B) permit a manufacturer, directly or through a legally authorized agent, to mail cigarettes in any calendar years in a cumulative amount greater than one percent of its total cigarette sales in the United States in the previous calendar year.

`(9) UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT AGENCIES- Agencies of the United States Government involved in the consumer testing of tobacco products solely for public health purposes may make mailings pursuant to the same requirements, restrictions, and Postal Service rules and procedures that apply to consumer testing mailings of cigarettes by manufacturers under paragraph (5), except that no such agency shall be required to pay the recipients for participating in the consumer testing.

`(c) Seizure and Forfeiture- Any cigarettes or smokeless tobacco made nonmailable by this subsection that are deposited in the mails shall be subject to seizure and forfeiture, pursuant to the procedures set forth in chapter 46 of this title. Any tobacco products so seized and forfeited shall either be destroyed or retained by Government officials for the detection or prosecution of crimes or related investigations and then destroyed.

`(d) Additional Penalties- In addition to any other fines and penalties imposed by this Act for violations of this section, any person violating this section shall be subject to an additional civil penalty in the amount of 10 times the retail value of the nonmailable cigarettes or smokeless tobacco, including all Federal, State, and local taxes.

`(e) Criminal Penalty- Whoever knowingly deposits for mailing or delivery, or knowingly causes to be delivered by mail, according to the direction thereon, or at any place at which it is directed to be delivered by the person to whom it is addressed, anything that this section declares to be nonmailable matter shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.

`(f) Definition- As used in this section, the term `State' has the meaning given that term in section 1716(k).

`(g) Use of Penalties- There is established a separate account in the Treasury of the United States, to be known as the `PACT Postal Service Fund'. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, an amount equal to 50 percent of any criminal and civil fines or monetary penalties collected by the United States Government in enforcing the provisions of this subsection shall be transferred into the PACT Postal Service Fund and shall be available to the Postmaster General for the purpose of enforcing the provisions of this subsection.

`(h) Coordination of Efforts- In the enforcement of this section, the Postal Service shall cooperate and coordinate its efforts with related enforcement activities of any other Federal agency or of any State, local, or tribal government, whenever appropriate.'.

(b) Actions by State, Local or Tribal Governments Relating to Certain Tobacco Products-

(1) A State, through its attorney general, or a local government or Indian tribe that levies an excise tax on tobacco products, through its chief law enforcement officer, may in a civil action in a United States district court obtain appropriate relief with respect to a violation of section 1716E of title 18, United States Code. Appropriate relief includes injunctive and equitable relief and damages equal to the amount of unpaid taxes on tobacco products mailed in violation of that section to addressees in that State.

(2) Nothing in this section shall be deemed to abrogate or constitute a waiver of any sovereign immunity of a State or local government or Indian tribe against any unconsented lawsuit under paragraph (1), or otherwise to restrict, expand, or modify any sovereign immunity of a State or local government or Indian tribe.

(3) Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit an authorized State official from proceeding in State court on the basis of an alleged violation of any general civil or criminal statute of such State.

(4) A State, through its attorney general, or a local government or Indian tribe that levies an excise tax on tobacco products, through its chief law enforcement officer, may provide evidence of a violation of paragraph (1) for commercial purposes by any person not subject to State, local, or tribal government enforcement actions for violations of paragraph (1) to the Attorney General, who shall take appropriate actions to enforce the provisions of this subsection.

(5) The remedies available under this subsection are in addition to any other remedies available under Federal, State, local, tribal, or other law. Nothing in this subsection shall be construed to expand, restrict, or otherwise modify any right of an authorized State, local, or tribal government official to proceed in a State, tribal, or other appropriate court, or take other enforcement actions, on the basis of an alleged violation of State, local, tribal, or other law.

(c) Clerical Amendment- The table of sections at the beginning of chapter 83 of title 18 is amended by adding after the item relating to section 1716D the following new item:

`1716E. Tobacco products as nonmailable.'.

[chadizzy1]

what...the...hell

[sagedil]

I still say. I just don't see this getting through the Senate. Easy for Reps to vote on something like this, but Senators are just too visible. Just don't think they want to piss off some very rich companies.

Hoping.

[PassedPawn]

Typical, CIGARS are exempted. Can't have the richies and their political tools go without their stogies.

I haven't read the whole thing but it seems to be targeting the USPS specifically. If so, and I'm only speaking in my case, I'm not too worried. I hate having to rely on USPS for packages and prefer UPS. I know no shipping company is perfect but USPS has really gotten on my nerves during the last couple of years. From carriers that misdeliver or steal packages to clerks that clearly don't give a shit and bust people's chops with their lousy attitude. God forbid if a package goes missing as their answer is basically "tough luck, **** off" and their package tracking is a joke.

[Badfish74]

Oh how I love our government! This just about tears it! I'm seriously considering that move to Sweden! All that legal jargon has my head spinning! Do we have a resident lawyer on the forum to explain any loopholes? Or am I gonna have to apply for a business liscense just to continue to order snus?

[justintempler]

OK here's the pertinent part for us:

SEC. 2A. DELIVERY SALES.
.....
`(d) Delivery-

`(1) IN GENERAL- Except as provided in paragraph (2), no delivery seller may sell or deliver to any consumer, or tender to any common carrier or other delivery service, any cigarettes or smokeless tobacco pursuant to a delivery sale unless, in advance of the sale, delivery, or tender--

`(A) any cigarette or smokeless tobacco excise tax that is imposed by the State in which the cigarettes or smokeless tobacco are to be delivered has been paid to the State;

`(B) any cigarette or smokeless tobacco excise tax that is imposed by the local government of the place in which the cigarettes or smokeless tobacco are to be delivered has been paid to the local government; and

`(C) any required stamps or other indicia that such excise tax has been paid are properly affixed or applied to the cigarettes or smokeless tobacco.

`(2) EXCEPTION- Paragraph (1) does not apply to a delivery sale of smokeless tobacco if the law of the State or local government of the place where the smokeless tobacco is to be delivered requires or otherwise provides that delivery sellers collect the excise tax from the consumer and remit the excise tax to the State or local government, and the delivery seller complies with the requirement.

As long as GetSnus and Northerner collect and pay our state/local taxes and ship via UPS, DHL., FedEx

We'll still be able to buy our snus. Although we will end up paying all taxes.

[RobsanX]

Typical, CIGARS are exempted. Can't have the richies and their political tools go without their stogies.

Isn't that the truth! WI just passed a state wide smoking ban, but cigar stores/bars were exempted! Even the hookah bar got the ban, but noooo, not cigars! :evil:

[chadizzy1]

ha, i don't care, i'll pay taxes. just don't make me go back to using that camel stuff again.