My Snus Days May Be Over

[Lucky Striker]

You're right, it was a little crass. I edited it out for good measure.

Two days before that thread I just got another notice that my premiums had gone up (not tobacco related). If you knew how shitty my insurance was and how much of a necessary expense it was for me, you'd understand how I could have seen it with a little less compassion for the OP than I think he was seeking. I came down hard on the OP when I maybe shoudn't have.

I still stand by my original intent though, an extra 25.00 a week isn't the end of the world, even to someone as broke as I am. Obviously if the insurance is decent enough to warrant choosing to quit taking snus in order to circumvent the additional fees, then I'm cool with that. I could just think of other hobbies or indulgences I could drop before I would snus. I got the impression that the OP just didn't want to snus anymore, so in his mind he's blaming his evil draconian employer as to why he has to give it up.

I just call it like I see it, and sometimes I'm a bit of a prick when I do the calling. I'll be the first to admit I'm an asshole at times, and I'm the first to admit when I realize I'm wrong for doing so. Sorry if I rubbed anyone the wrong way.

[Badfish74]

No hard feelings I hope Lucky Striker.

I've always had kind of a "stick up for people" complex, and end up sticking my nose where it doesn't belong.

I figured since I kinda bashed you publicly, I should apologize publicly!

Now let's resume the fun and frivolity! 8)

[sagedil]

Notice I stayed out of it?? Trying to be a very good Sage these days. :wink:

I don't have health insurance, haven't for a couple of years now. Company I work for is tiny, only two employees besides the bosses. Just no way I can afford to buy it on my own right now, at my age.

[Shownarou]

Notice I stayed out of it?? Trying to be a very good Sage these days. :wink:

Great Sage and imminent junkie Sagedil. :P

I pay a premium for my health insurance as a tobacco user, but they don't test for it. It's just an honesty thing. Yes, it's bullshit, but after all what are we to do about it?

[cigator]

Thanks for your comments and insight. My post was more along the lines of a loss of a personal freedom, or at the very least, a fine imposed to keep a freedom of choice. I feel like a made a wise choice moving from cigars and pipes to snus. Just when i thought I was safe by not smoking, they lump all tobacco use together. As to the post regarding the courts upholding such a ban in Florida, it's like my daughter told me (she just finished her 1st year at Univ of Chicago Law School), she sees a lot of cases that meet the legal test, but they are just not right. That's how I feel about this. For those they would trivialize my situation, I think we should stand against all forms of dimishment of rights, because for certain, the day will come when they come for a right you hold dearly.

[sagedil]

How I felt when they started testing for drugs in the mid 80's, No one listened to me. :wink:

[Kvlt]

Not so true. A number of companies are now making folks lose weight or they will be charged way more just like you will be for using tobacco.

In the end it'll just ruin the point of health insurance by making to many diverse groups, or any for that matter.

Either way, hopefully Obama will bring free health care to the USA, making all health insurance plans void in a way. Now, this would cause a huge alcohol and tobacco duty, HOWEVER, tobacco lobbyists may lobby them to drop duty on snus, as its not been proven to cause many/any health problems and thus snus users are lower risk. If tobacco companies are succesful at this, a huge snus surge could happen in the US.

That's not good at all.
First, we need private healthcare so we aren't stuck on the shitty nationalized one. People will still keep their private insurance, and I'm sure some hospitals will go exclusively to private.
Second, We don't want snus to become popular. Why? Because then we'll have to pay American taxes, so you'll be paying $10-$20 PER CAN instead of $2-$3.50.

[Lucky Striker]

Thanks for your comments and insight. My post was more along the lines of a loss of a personal freedom, or at the very least, a fine imposed to keep a freedom of choice.

Nobody said that you had to quit using snus. You choose to quit because now your company provided insurance has increased in price. Your "freedom of choice" is limited to paying for your insurance or paying for snus.

I feel like a made a wise choice moving from cigars and pipes to snus. Just when i thought I was safe by not smoking, they lump all tobacco use together.

No, you just NOTICED that they lumped all tobacco use together once it affected the only thing that most Americans seem to notice- their wallet. Smokeless tobacco has been under fire (in some cases worse than cigarettes) since the late seventies. You ask most people, and they would rather smoke than chew because oral tobacco is soooooooooo dangerous. :roll:

As to the post regarding the courts upholding such a ban in Florida, it's like my daughter told me (she just finished her 1st year at Univ of Chicago Law School), she sees a lot of cases that meet the legal test, but they are just not right. That's how I feel about this.

I agree with you. It's just not right. But tell that to drinkers, fat people, terminally ill people or old people. They've been paying a premium on their health insurance just like we tobacco users. Tell that to motorcycle drivers that have to pay more for coverage, or people that have red paint jobs on their cars. Or drivers between the ages of 16-25. Tell that to people that live in older homes or bad neighborhoods. Tell that to companies that operate in poor areas, or handle haz-mat. These are ALL people that pay more for insurance based on what they do in life.

You seem to have confused "cheap health coverage" with "guaranteed personal freedom".

For those they would trivialize my situation, I think we should stand against all forms of dimishment of rights, because for certain, the day will come when they come for a right you hold dearly.

Again, I agree with you. But I don't see how "diminishment of rights" has anything to do with your insurance going up. You have to pay more for your insurance because you use snus. If you can't afford both, get rid of the one you want the least. Even if, God forbid, you lost this current job and went to another, you would still have to pay more for your insurance, even if you were only smoking a pipe or cigar. In this country, as every other in the civilized world, if you CHOOSE to use tobacco, you need to be able to afford your habit. This includes not only the price of the product in question, but the elevated health care costs that EVERYONE has to pay.

I know you don't see things my way. I know you feel like your employer has no right to charge more for your optional health plan because you use tobacco. And I feel for ya, man, I really do... but this is nothing new, and no one has taken away your "rights". You're like the guy that wants to stand naked in a church and scream "****!" from the top of his lungs, and somehow feel that everyone needs to respect him due to the first amendment. There's nothing in the Constitution nor Declaration that implies that an employer can't charge more for an optional health care plan to people that the employer finds more at risk than the rest of the population. Nor does it imply that since you use snus, you are guaranteed to never have to pay a higher premium.

I can't stand when someones civil rights have been violated, but this is clearly a melodramatic ploy to get people to rally for some make-believe right to not have to pay more for insurance.

[Badfish74]

I know I apologized and all but...

I just laugh at the pomposity of certain individuals here that think that they need to be "the line drawer" to people with different opinions from them. That's just so ****ing absurd I don't know where to begin to pick it apart. I joined up here as a bet from some fellows at another tobacco site. We were remarking about how a certain couple of members seem to attack newbies immediately, almost always without any other reason than "to keep things straight." Anyway, long story short, the bet was that one of us could join up here, voice an opinion about something, and then get attacked by a certain individual who has a propensity to attack new members who dare to speak their minds. So, the bet was that in the span of ten posts in ten hours, one of us would get flamed by two or three choice members. Guess what? All three of us faced the wrath of these guys. Now, I'm sticking around because I love snus. The other two won't, because it was a pure shill experiment. Either way, I have a couple of cans of Toque coming my way for correctly estimating the flame off timespan. What this experiment proved was that the same two or three guys that are a bit, uh, overzealous in their quest to make everyone think like them are completely predictable in every way, and are well known outside of snuson. And that really sucks for snuson and anyone that pops in with an opinion or an idea that doesn't fit in with the rest of the crowd, because what you're going to end up with here is a forum with three guys and 10,000 posts between them, and another thousand members that came in, posted twice, got flamed by the three alpha members, and subsequently left. But don't take it from me, I've only been here a very short while. At this point I'm still an outsider looking in, but I'd very much like it to be the opposite. I just hope that I can bypass the bullshit that some of the older members like to throw around undeservedly. Thanks for allowing me to voice my opinion.

Hmm...sound familiar?

Peace...I'm out! 8)

[Lucky Striker]

OMG! You posted some shit I wrote weeks ago! O noes! WTF!

I suppose you think I'm hypocritical for having an opinion AND attacking people that force their opinion on others. Nope.

[Badfish74]

Hey, if you can wear that itchy pair of drawers, I'm happy for ya!

I guess I just don't care much for contradicting myself. But hey, that's just me. To each his own.

[Toque Snuff]

Getting this back on topic, I just wanted to say we are noticing a number of US and UK life insurance companies are now offering snuff users the same life premiums as non-smokers. This has got to be one of the best endorsements that snuff is harmless as these guys don’t risk a penny unless they are sure.

Check out these insurance companies:

• AIG
• AXA
• ING-Reliastar
• John Hancock
• Lincoln
• Principal
• Prudential
• Transamerica