American Snus

[rustic]

On a trip through Texas, I managed to grab some Marlboro "Rich" Snus in the DFW area, then some Camel Original in Austin. Both are equivalent to mini-sized snus. While I certainly agree that neither product is likely to be as pure (ingredient-wise) as Swedish products, I definitely think that they're on the right track, marketing-wise, for the American public.

The mini portion is great for new users.. it's small (so you don't get the whole lip-full-of-dip look that's not as socially acceptable), and it's easy to use. The downside is that it's difficult to get flavor from a mini portion.

Philip Morris went with "flavor strips" on the Marlboro product.. and of all the snus products I've tried, it provides the most "tastable" flavor. The downside is that the "flavor" stays on your hands for an hour after you stick a pouch in, and it's a fairly fake-buttery, synthetic flavor. My overall impression is that the Marlboro snus product feels very artificially manipulated, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if Philip Morris wasn't already screwing with the whole curve of nicotine delivery (i.e. entering your body faster, leaving faster, etc). Or if they're not doing it *yet*, they probably will. All that being said, in terms of taste, I actually like the Marlboro snus product quite a bit. Once I got used to the artificial flavor, I enjoyed having that flavor in the background while I had it in my lip.

The Camel product didn't taste horribly artificially flavored.. to me, it tasted like a mix between the smell you get from a freshly opened pack of Camels and a glass of iced tea with lemon. After a tin or two, it grew on me. However, the Camel product is lacking in that background lemony-salty flavor that I get from nearly all Swedish products, so I'd bet that it's been "improved" as well.

Neither product seemed as strong to me as a mini-potion of Swedish snus. I've tried quite a few mini white portion snus products (Tre Ankare, General, Lucky Strike, CatchDry Licorice, etc), and most of their flavors are subtle in comparison to the Marlboro product.

While I know that most of the folks on this forum are big fans of either regular portion or loose snus, I think that the mini-portion has the most appeal to the American market, and I hope that folks like Swedish Match continue to innovate new ways to get more flavor into a mini-portion without compromising quality of ingredients..

- Jeff

[Craig de Tering]

Hi! Welcome to the forum of snus enlightenment. :wink:

Remember though: this forum is an international forum and no one can buy any of Phillip Morris' so-called snuses outside the States. Besides, to me personally, trying to justify these new American snuses is akin to saying "Hey, moonshine tastes just like fine scotch".
But I guess I don't have to tell you that, since you've already tried the Swedish Match products already huh :-D
Philip Morris just can't mess with what is in fact a Swedish national institution, a source of pride for its people and almost 300 years' experience and refinement.
Plus American snus is -gram for gram- much, MUCH more expensive too even without S&H.
If Camel and Marlboro snus is the same as PM's previous effort called Taboka, it's nothing more than a weak nicotine delivery vehicle with industrial strength flavoring. Effective in an emergency but not really what I would consider a conveyor of pleasure.
The other -somewhat- good thing I had to say about Taboka was that an unopened package will survive World War III so it might be a good proposition to stow some in unobvious places for when you have no alternative. No need for a fridge anymore.

On another note: Jeff, what you suggest in your last sentences already exists! Search for these brands: Catch and Mocca. I think each has like 5 different flavors.
Really, they don't sell very big but judging from 1 can of Catch Cassis-Menthol I ordered a long time ago they taste really wonderful without being chemical or overpowering.

Yo, ZEROOOO!! I think we really need a sticky topic on "American snus" around now with all these identical topics popping up.

[rustic]

Oh, you're not missing much with your inability to buy Marlboro or Camel snus.. actually, I can't buy it here either (it's only being test marketing in a few places)

I just figured that everyone might appreciate a review from somebody that had tried it and didn't hate it.

The scotch-to-moonshine analogy is actually a great one. A closer analogy might be comparing Canadian whisky to scotch. It's kinda the same thing, just watered-down, artificially-flavored, mass-produced, and lacking in flavor. I personally like drinking Canadian whisky better than scotch. Weird, eh?

I'm afraid that it'll be painful for me to watch the American tobacco companies and public butcher a perfectly good 300 year-old Swedish institution for American consumption.. but I'm hoping that folks like Swedish Match will successfully market their products here.

My primary point is just that I hope the Swedish manufacturers go after the American market with quality products.. and you're right, the CatchDry stuff that I've tried is on the right track. It's a huge market (particularly because so much of the EU market is inaccessible due to stupid regulations), and snus represents a very attractive way to enjoy my favorite vegetable, tobacco

I'm probably coming to snus from a slightly different perspective.. I gave up cigarettes a long time ago, and have been a moderate pipe smoker for a few years. And my first realization with snus was, "This must have been what it as like to be a smoker back in the 1950's. Just enjoy tobacco while going about your daily life instead of being shoved out back to stand in the rain and smoke." I enjoy somewhere between one and four mini portions of snus every day, and I love it.

Anyway, thanks to everyone for such a great forum.. I've learned a lot from this place, and everyone seems very friendly.

- Jeff

[alex]

rustic - I just quoted you in my sig, hope that's ok :P

It seems that Camel just can't get their Snus out fast enough here in KC. Everywhere you go downtown there are fliers littered all over the ground (which severely pisses me off), and there are 'free tin of snus' coupons EVERYWHERE.

I have to admit, Camel snus was my first snus experience, it led me to Northerner and BuySnus, and since I receceived my first few cans of swedish snus - I haven't looked back. I hope that more people will be intrigued like me and discover the original product and that will give companies like Swedish Match the drive to move to the US with sales.

[Zero]

Yo, ZEROOOO!! I think we really need a sticky topic on "American snus" around now with all these identical topics popping up.

Stickied 8)

[Soft Morning, City!]

It seems that Camel just can't get their Snus out fast enough here in KC. Everywhere you go downtown there are fliers littered all over the ground (which severely pisses me off), and there are 'free tin of snus' coupons EVERYWHERE.

Same thing here in Portland. Those ****ing booklets are strewn all about the sidewalks downtown, which is irritating because as far as big cities go, Portland has a minimal amount of visible litter. But those fliers, booklets, and coupons are becoming a scourge.

There are tons of great tobacco shops here. I really wonder sometimes why none of them sell the Swedish stuff. It would probably do fairly well.

[RealmofOpeth]

It seems that Camel just can't get their Snus out fast enough here in KC. Everywhere you go downtown there are fliers littered all over the ground (which severely pisses me off), and there are 'free tin of snus' coupons EVERYWHERE.

There are tons of great tobacco shops here. I really wonder sometimes why none of them sell the Swedish stuff. It would probably do fairly well.

No kidding...it's so weird how Cigar shops are around who get their stuff from all over Latin America...
yet there ain't shit for snus here, besides these American ripoffs in 'test markets'.
I mean, really, how big of a risk is it for sellers to sell snus?
How many friggin people you know smoke cigars compared to cigarettes? Not many. With cigars you gotta have humidors and rooms for that. So it's really no different at all for snus...in fact, it would fare better I think because most people won't notice you're using it and most people can't stand cigarette smoke, LET ALONE cigar smoke! no matches, lighters, ashtrays involved, no laws to abide by....so the demand is naturally higher, the overhead for providing it ain't shit (cigars are ridiculously expensive) therefore the supply potential is higher...so WHAT THE HELL!
It is a strange phenomenon. Pussy retailers.

[Soft Morning, City!]

Yeah, I really don't get it. A couple of blocks away there's a little, quality smoke shop called Rich's. I find myself in there pretty often, as they blend their own pipe tobacco and I'm a sucker for the occasional nice, warm smoke in the fall and winter months. They also have great cigars and tons of imported cigarettes from all over the planet, but no snus.

You're right, it really can't be that much of a hassle or financial risk to try selling snus. If they can stock Japanese cigarettes, they could surely sell snus. There are also a lot of college students here, me among them, and one of my personal favorite things about snus is that you can use it in class and nobody is the wiser. Plus the fact that when I'm at home (I live in a non-smoking building) I don't have to get up and go outside to have a cigarette.

If they were to start selling the real thing, I think they'd be pleasantly surprised by the sales.

[Craig de Tering]

Just playing devil's advocate here: i think the investment up front is a pain the ass, plus you got to KEEP the logs frozen (more utility $$) and then there's the odd guy, the 0.0001% of customers who'd care for it.
And don't forget a shop just cannot undercut their other oral profit maker (no, not BJs tss) : DIP, which lasts a shorter while and is more expensive per can.

[think]

I agree with Craig here. The risk is high. The fridge, stocking it, selling the stuff before the best buy date. You would lose a considerable amount of money to throwing rolls away that people didn't buy. IF RJR and PM are successful and find an audience for snus, then Swedish Match could successfully move into the American market. Otherwise, they are better off staying where they are. /And/ if I walk into a place selling general for 5USD a can, I'll only buy it when I run out between orders. I truly do like convenience, but my wallet likes frugal, and I try to listen to my wallet. Besides, "what the heck is that?", "Oh, it's Swedish, I have to import it myself." is just cooler.

[Soft Morning, City!]

think:

Heh. I agree, actually, now that I think more in depth about it. If my cans of snus were five bucks a pop I don't think I'd buy them without it being an emergency situation.

I wonder if there will ever be a way to have it sold here for reasonable prices.

But until then, I'll see you all later. I'm going to Northerner.

[RealmofOpeth]

I agree with Craig here. The risk is high. The fridge, stocking it, selling the stuff before the best buy date. You would lose a considerable amount of money to throwing rolls away that people didn't buy. IF RJR and PM are successful and find an audience for snus, then Swedish Match could successfully move into the American market. Otherwise, they are better off staying where they are. /And/ if I walk into a place selling general for 5USD a can, I'll only buy it when I run out between orders. I truly do like convenience, but my wallet likes frugal, and I try to listen to my wallet. Besides, "what the heck is that?", "Oh, it's Swedish, I have to import it myself." is just cooler.

Well certainly the risk is up there...in comparison to dip, cigarettes, pipe tobacco...etc. but not cigars....which is my initial comparison.
Quality cigars are inherently expensive. They have to be hand-rolled, require significant packaging and climate conditions, need to be imported from far off countries, and the clientele is relatively small given the conditions cigar usage requires.... Yet we see cigar shops in almost every town.
The only major concern with snus beyond cigars is the refrigeration (which can be considered equivalent or not much worse to humidor costs). But that is why a business starting to sell snus shouldn't do it in massive quantities. just a basic lineup of the most popular snus in a little fridge. Easy shit. As soon as customers clean out your fridge, order some more. Then as you have trouble keeping up with the demand, increase the order size, etc. The same way any business does perishable import products.
Perhaps if wholesalers in Sweden expanded their distribution beyond the domestic retailers to include international shipment in refrigerated conditions.
Of course all of that drives price up a little bit but I'm still not seeing the difference, or the penalty rather, being worse than cigars.


But I admit, the whole esoteric/underground feel of snus is nice...some things are better left out of the mainstream.

[rustic]

I wonder how much of the price difference is due to US retailers applying state/federal taxes on snus?

I mean, not that I'm even remotely implying that the US users here fail to remit the proper state taxes after receiving a shipment of snus from Sweden, but....



- Jeff

[Craig de Tering]

I thought I read somewhere here that US snusers pay about $3.50~$4 on average per can all-in.

[Coffey]

^ Yup that's pretty close. Of course, it depends on the brand, but I would say about $4.00 is pretty average for my orders.