A thought about General Extra Sterk!

[paulwall9]

So, as many of you may know General Extra Sterk is my favorite snus and I have used almost 5 rolls of it since I started snussing! Anyways, this evening while very bored and watching a movie, Three Kings by the way, I was looking over the ingridents and there was something in it that I never tasted and never thought was in General ES! That my friends is Salmiak!

Now, for those who do not know, salmiak is basically a salty liquorice. Now what struck me as odd is I do not taste liquorice in the least in any way in General es. So the only reason i could think it would possibly be there is that salmiak contains a large amount of ammonium chloride! This leads me to believe that the salmiak may just be in the General es to raise the ph levels in the snus resulting in faster nicotine absorption and a harder hit! So maybe General uses better cuts of more potent tobaccos and than uses the salmiak to raise the ph a little to top it all off! IDK just a thought!

[MojoQuestor]

That's very cool. I think (in my unabashed ignorance) you may be on to something.

VERY cool. By the way, I have GES in right now, having received my first-ever two rolls, rather than singles, just today (well, now yesterday). Isn't that exciting? Yes, I think so, too

Seriously though, this is excellent stuff, and your post has me taster looking more deeply.

[justintempler]

Nice idea but

Sodium bicarbonate has a value of 10.3 (acidic)
Ammonium chloride has a value of 9.245 (acidic)
Sodium carbonate has a value of 3.67 (basic)

so unless I'm wrong Sodium bicarbonate which they are already using does a better job :?:

:?: unless sodium bicarbonate converts to sodium carbonate and ammonium chloride is more stable :!:

I'm no chemist :roll:

[paulwall9]

Well, that is true but we may just both be right! because why else would salmiak be there! maybe, they both work together to achieve what turns out to be Strong General goodness!

Still Justin, you have had General es in portions or los no? Have you ever tasted a hint of salmiak in there?

[justintempler]

see my edit..

no I don't taste it in GES, I do in LD Black though.

[MojoQuestor]

Nice idea but

Sodium bicarbonate has a value of 10.3 (acidic)
Ammonium chloride has a value of 9.245 (acidic)
Sodium carbonate has a value of 3.67 (basic)

so unless I'm wrong Sodium bicarbonate which they are already using does a better job :?:

:?: unless sodium bicarbonate converts to sodium carbonate and ammonium chloride is more stable :!:

I'm no chemist :roll:

I sure ain't no chemist either, but I *think* I recall reading that the sodium carbonate converts to the bicarbonate. But I could very well have that switched around.

Ah. Here's the thread, I think:
http://tribes.tribe.net/tobaccopatch...0-1dbbfe2975af

[paulwall9]

Thks, for the replies and research Justin much enjoyed!!!

[justintempler]

here you go pallwall9,

It's a combination of the two 8)

http://www.archive.org/stream/health...0unit_djvu.txt

Two former U.S. Tobacco chemists. Mr. Taft
and Mr. Story say that while they were with the
companv. it used certain chemicals especially
sodium carbonate and ammonium carbonate to
increase the alkalinity of its tobaccos and. thus,
the levels of free nicotine. The company added
these chemicals during and after fermentation, the
process that turns tobacco into snuff, they say.
Ammonia, primarily a byproduct of fermentation,
also reallv increases the pH." Mr. Story says.)
....
For example. Mr. Story says that in his day.
the company's bestselling Copenhagen brand
would emerge from fermentation with a pH of
about 7.4. Then, to make it a finished product, "it
was brought up to a pH of 7.5 by adding more
sodium carbonate and ammonium carbonate. '
(Copenhagen s fermentation continues in the can.
which can raise its pH considerably higher, ac-
cording to Mr. Story.) Orignal Fine Cut Skoal.
U.S. Tobaccos second-most-potent product, was
formulated to wind up with a pH of 7.4. he says.
...

And sodium carbonate converts to sodium bicarbonate.

[paulwall9]

Awesome job Justin, Great work!!!

[MojoQuestor]

Justin has it, but just to amplify a little, here's what I remembered:

The carbonate left exposed to air will pick up oxygen and convert to the bicarbonate form. The bicarbonate can be can be converted into carbonate by just heating it.

...from the link posted above. So what happens here? does bicarb convert to carb during pasteurization, then back to bicarb as it's exposed to air?

Bah, I'm being lazy. (looks) Here, look what mojo found:

http://www.buysnus.ch/

The main ingredients in the preparation of snus are ground tobacco, water, salt (ordinary cooking salt) and sodium carbonate. Additional ingredients are aromatic compounds and moisture-preserving substances. The salt is added for two reasons: to add to the flavor and to extend the keeping qualities of the snus. Sodium carbonate is used to give the snus its characteristic flavor and aroma and also gives it a slightly basic pH value. As soon as the sodium carbonate is added, it is converted into bicarbonate, which is therefore present in the finished snus. ...

Well, good, sodium carbonate doesn't sound like something I want next to my skin. From the old link:

Sodium carbonate is more caustic and can burn the skin and mucous membranes.

[justintempler]

If you look at the ratios much more sodium carbonate is used as compared to ammonium chloride. That last column is quantity not exceeded so amounts used in individual products can be less. (or none at all)

http://www.swedishmatch.com/en/our-b...tCategoryID=12

497-19-8 Sodium carbonate Acidity regulator 2,9000
471-34-1 Calcium carbonate Acidity regulator 1,2000
68916-91-6 Licorice and licorice extract Flavour 1,1000
12125-02-9 Ammonium chloride Flavour 0,6000

BAT - Lucky Strike Original - Sweden

Sodium carbonate 2.30400
Ammonium chloride 0.37440

[Owens187]

Nice idea but

Sodium bicarbonate has a value of 10.3 (acidic)
Ammonium chloride has a value of 9.245 (acidic)
Sodium carbonate has a value of 3.67 (basic)

Um......

Sodium Bicarbonate (common baking soda) has a ph of about 8.3, or a Pka of 10.3 and is very alkaline(basic), not acidic. For example, I use it in my Hawaiin Coral Reef aquarium to raise the ph level, which makes the water contain an ALKALINE(basic) ph of 8.0-8.5.

Though it can it gain a Pka of 6.4 and become acidic when it goes through the bicarbonate <-> carbonic acid reaction, and gains a proton, becoming a different molecule, Carbonic Acid.

The higher the ph, the higher the Pka level, the LESS acidic the solution.

From what I remember though, you should not even pay attention to the Pka level (acid dissociation constant) of a base, because it does not function as an acid in the first place. Its better to refer to the ph level for that reason.

It is also a main ingredient in antacids, because it neutralizes acids in the stomach.

You are correct on the other two, though ammonium chloride (salt of ammonia) is only slightly acidic, almost neutral, and acts as a stabilizer for the ph level.

But I damn sure aint no chemist either... :roll:

[chadizzy1]

I have some ordered, it's not here yet though, I'm curious to try it.

[RobsanX]

I'm no expert, but can't salmiak refer to just the ammonium chloride by itself, without the licorice?

[paulwall9]

Maybe????