Availability in the US

[sagedil]

You will have plenty of time should the need come. But not yet.

[shikitohno]

Perhaps we should just make a thread asking if anyone's interested in forming a delivery service? someone could make some money off catering to the tobacco crowd. Although if you specifically limit it to tobacco, we'd all probably wind up taxed to death.

[snusjus]

If I'm not mistaken, when PACT Act passes, we will just be charged state taxes on top of our orders... right? For example, if I ordered from Getsnus.com, which is located in Pennsylvania, there would be a "tax" addition on my order that gets paid to Ohio.

[Judge Faust]

Yes, Swedish Match is getting ready for that, especially if certain laws we all fear are actually passed

A lot of virtual ink has been spilled here over these "certain laws..."

Can I please get a cite to this proposed legislation? A link to relevant discussions thereof?

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/110-s1027/show it drives a steak thru the hreart of mail order tobacco.

Er... Well:

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s110-1027

This bill was introduced in 2007 and never amounted to anything. No voting in either House, and all that. Dead.

But then we get to:

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-4081

This one passed the House of Representatives - in September of 2008. No Senate action.

So:

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s111-1147

It was reintroduced in March of this year. No action as of yet = no action expected this year.

Basically, unless someone has some better information, I see no need to worry at the present time.

EDIT: Okay, never mind. We have the following:

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-1676

So it passed the House once more. Alright, I guess now I must read the actual bill. Sigh. This is always the part that makes me wish I was born centuries earlier; I hate legalese. And I'm a lawyer... :cry:

[McSnus]

I would love to see more snus shops in the US, or at least have import snus integrated into more tobacco/cigar shops.

I'm currently supporting the few places that carry General, but the only product i'm a fan of from them is there Wintergreen Portion.

[sagedil]

If I'm not mistaken, when PACT Act passes, we will just be charged state taxes on top of our orders... right? For example, if I ordered from Getsnus.com, which is located in Pennsylvania, there would be a "tax" addition on my order that gets paid to Ohio.

That would be best case scenario, one I really have NO issues with

[Judge Faust]

Well, then:

This seems pretty airtight. Any mailing of anything non-cigar would be more or less done for...

Generally speaking, the drafting looks good enough to survive a constitutional Commerce Clause challenge. There may or may not be a WTO violation involved, but I have no expertise in this matter.

If this does happen to pass, I will personally exploit the following provision:


SEC. 8. EFFECTIVE DATE.
(a) In General- Except as provided in subsection (b), this Act shall take effect on the date that is 90 days after the date of enactment of this Act.


3 months? Alright. I should have enough money on hand for ~5,000 cans of Thunder, plus the required freezers. After that, we'll see...

[Tristik]

If I'm not mistaken, when PACT Act passes, we will just be charged state taxes on top of our orders... right? For example, if I ordered from Getsnus.com, which is located in Pennsylvania, there would be a "tax" addition on my order that gets paid to Ohio.

~~
Technically, I think you're supposed to be already paying taxes on it, but you'd have to go and declare it yourself or some such.

The act itself would completely ban the delivery of tobacco through the mail system in the U.S. (cigars excluded as usual). That means any business that thrives on selling tobacco and shipping it through the mail in the US would take a major kick in the nuts and many would probably go out of business.
~~

[RRK]

The act itself would completely ban the delivery of tobacco through the mail system in the U.S. (cigars excluded as usual). That means any business that thrives on selling tobacco and shipping it through the mail in the US would take a major kick in the nuts and many would probably go out of business.
~~

Where are you guys getting this from? It bans it from the USPS but other carriers just agreed to only ship from licensed distributors and they have to get a adult signature. Taxes will be charged through the online stores.

[McSnus]

Not sure if this has been covered yet, but I noticed the other day that Northerner had updated their selection of US Shipped snus. Sounds good to me! I wish they would add to their US snuff selection.

[PsychoHazard]

The act itself would completely ban the delivery of tobacco through the mail system in the U.S. (cigars excluded as usual). That means any business that thrives on selling tobacco and shipping it through the mail in the US would take a major kick in the nuts and many would probably go out of business.
~~

Where are you guys getting this from? It bans it from the USPS but other carriers just agreed to only ship from licensed distributors and they have to get a adult signature. Taxes will be charged through the online stores.

True, it doesn't ban other carriers, but have you seen the UPS prices? What costs me $2.95 shipping via USPS costs $7+ via UPS. For example, Northerner sells Discreet through their US warehouse. 1 packet of each flavor comes to a total of $4.95. Are you likely to want to pay $7.00 for UPS ground or $12.95 for UPS second day air to get a $4.95 order shipped? And the overseas shipping becomes even worse. For example, the Offroad Limited 2009 sells for $29.72 at Northerner. UPS shipping is $27.99, normal shipping through the mail is $8.48. Given a choice, I'll take the shipping option that doesn't virtually double what I have to pay to get my snus. Given no choice, I probably wouldn't be ordering anything from overseas anymore. While I'm on the subject of shipping, I also would like to know why anyone thinks it would be a good idea to take more revenues away from the USPS when they are already something like $3.5billion in the hole.

[RRK]

True, it doesn't ban other carriers, but have you seen the UPS prices? What costs me $2.95 shipping via USPS costs $7+ via UPS.

Yeh overseas sales are much more expensive but northerner is moving nearly its full line to the US warehouse and getsnus doesn't charge any differently for USPS or UPS. I think they are anticipating this.

[MrSnusNSnuff]

The act itself would completely ban the delivery of tobacco through the mail system in the U.S. (cigars excluded as usual). That means any business that thrives on selling tobacco and shipping it through the mail in the US would take a major kick in the nuts and many would probably go out of business.
~~

Where are you guys getting this from? It bans it from the USPS but other carriers just agreed to only ship from licensed distributors and they have to get a adult signature. Taxes will be charged through the online stores.

True, it doesn't ban other carriers, but have you seen the UPS prices? What costs me $2.95 shipping via USPS costs $7+ via UPS. For example, Northerner sells Discreet through their US warehouse. 1 packet of each flavor comes to a total of $4.95. Are you likely to want to pay $7.00 for UPS ground or $12.95 for UPS second day air to get a $4.95 order shipped? And the overseas shipping becomes even worse. For example, the Offroad Limited 2009 sells for $29.72 at Northerner. UPS shipping is $27.99, normal shipping through the mail is $8.48. Given a choice, I'll take the shipping option that doesn't virtually double what I have to pay to get my snus. Given no choice, I probably wouldn't be ordering anything from overseas anymore. While I'm on the subject of shipping, I also would like to know why anyone thinks it would be a good idea to take more revenues away from the USPS when they are already something like $3.5billion in the hole.

I think Northerner is smart enough to expand their product line in the US Warehouse if the bill gets passed... which they probably won't have time to even look at it on the 5th, anyway.

[snupy]

Not that I'm aware of PMD.
Snus isn't going anywhere, it's just going to cost more.

Uh no, it won't, not for me at least. I am sorry, but given I quit smoking after 28.5 years, why should I still be required to pay a tax to use snus, which has NONE of the health risks that cigarettes do? Oh that's right, I SHOULDN'T.

My experiments went VERY WELL this past season with growing tobacco. I learned what to do and what not to do. I still have seed for 17 species of tobacco (6 of which came from the USDA seed bank), including 2 Virginias (which I LOVE) and the rest are mostly Turkish/Orientals (which I also LOVE). So yeah, if they pass this BS law, I will most definitely order as many rolls of loose as I can while avoiding the import tax, but all I need to do is get through the 2010 growing season. After 90 days of air-curing the 2010 crop, I will be making my own, in ANY flavor that I desire. I only need 7 plants to supply myself for a year, so I think I will set a target to grow 14.

I WILL BE DAMNED IF I PAY THE US GOVERNMENT SO MUCH AS ONE MORE CENT IN TOBACCO TAXES.

[Judge Faust]

The act itself would completely ban the delivery of tobacco through the mail system in the U.S. (cigars excluded as usual). That means any business that thrives on selling tobacco and shipping it through the mail in the US would take a major kick in the nuts and many would probably go out of business.
~~

Where are you guys getting this from? It bans it from the USPS but other carriers just agreed to only ship from licensed distributors and they have to get a adult signature. Taxes will be charged through the online stores.

That is incorrect, RRK. Quoting from the Act itself (bolding mine):


(d) Delivery-
‘(1) IN GENERAL- Except as provided in paragraph (2), no delivery seller may sell or deliver to any consumer, or tender to any common carrier or other delivery service, any cigarettes or smokeless tobacco pursuant to a delivery sale unless, in advance of the sale, delivery, or tender--
‘(A) any cigarette or smokeless tobacco excise tax that is imposed by the State in which the cigarettes or smokeless tobacco are to be delivered has been paid to the State;
‘(B) any cigarette or smokeless tobacco excise tax that is imposed by the local government of the place in which the cigarettes or smokeless tobacco are to be delivered has been paid to the local government; and
‘(C) any required stamps or other indicia that such excise tax has been paid are properly affixed or applied to the cigarettes or smokeless tobacco.


So, don't get your hopes up. Post Office, UPS, carrier pigeon, pony express... It's all covered.