The Bill That Wouldn't Die - aka PACT Act

[Owens187]

California sucks ass. I just found out that the Governator decided to take out an interest free loan from its citizens, by raising the California income tax BY 10%!!!

I guess you get it back at tax season, but still, its a forced loan whether I like it or not, and interest free to boot.

Mafia Style.

I ****ing hate California.

[chadizzy1]

California sucks ass. I just found out that the Governator decided to take out an interest free loan from its citizens, by raising the California income tax BY 10%!!!

I guess you get it back at tax season, but still, its a forced loan whether I like it or not, and interest free to boot.

Mafia Style.

I ****ing hate California.

I bought a house in 2008, and if you bought a house in 2008 you qualified for Obama's First Time Homebuyer Credit, which was around 7,000$, BUT, you have to pay it back as an interest free loan for the next several years.

NOW, if you bought a house in 2009, you get a First Time Homebuyer Credit you DO NOT have to pay back. Around the same amount. WHAT KIND OF BS IS THIS?!

[GoVegan]

PACT Act

If tobacco is so valuable that they have to tax the crap out of it, perhaps our representatives who are pushing the PACT act would like our used portions sent to them for recycling!

[sagedil]

California sucks ass. I just found out that the Governator decided to take out an interest free loan from its citizens, by raising the California income tax BY 10%!!!

I guess you get it back at tax season, but still, its a forced loan whether I like it or not, and interest free to boot.

Mafia Style.

I ****ing hate California.

I bought a house in 2008, and if you bought a house in 2008 you qualified for Obama's First Time Homebuyer Credit, which was around 7,000$, BUT, you have to pay it back as an interest free loan for the next several years.

NOW, if you bought a house in 2009, you get a First Time Homebuyer Credit you DO NOT have to pay back. Around the same amount. WHAT KIND OF BS IS THIS?!

Wow Chad, and if you bought a house in 2007 you got nothing, but I don't see you not taking advantage of what you did in 2008.

So do you whine the same way when you buy a TV, and then see the same TV on sale the next month??

[chadizzy1]

So do you whine the same way when you buy a TV, and then see the same TV on sale the next month??

YES, that bugs the HELL out of me.

[sagedil]

Sigh...

:wink:

[RRK]

Maybe to compensate for the taxes the online stores could all start offering free shipping. Better then losing business.

[GoVegan]

PACT

I found this article recently in regards to the PACT Act. It makes it sound like our snus dollars are going directly to terrorist groups. They also make it seem like mini markets never sell tobacco to kids and it is the internet stores that are the problem. I have seen lots of kids buy tobacco at mini markets and this is ridiculous. Please write your Senators ASAP!

http://www.awmanet.org/awma-update/s...-tobacco-sales

[kjoerup]

I can't understand why so many people keep offering "solutions" to PACT such as offering free shipping.

If PACT passes (and it undoubtedly will, whenever it does make it to the Senate floor and Obama's desk), ALL tobacco (except cigars) will not be mailable through the US Postal Service. And, yes, UPS, FedEx and DHL have publicly stated that they will also "voluntarily" refuse to ship tobacco products (except cigars). It doesn't make a damn bit of difference which deals the online stores "offer." They will be forced out of business, period.

PACT is about the dumbest bit of legislation since Prohibition (or, maybe the Patriot Act), but stupidity has never stopped Congress.

[RRK]

I can't understand why so many people keep offering "solutions" to PACT such as offering free shipping.

If PACT passes (and it undoubtedly will, whenever it does make it to the Senate floor and Obama's desk), ALL tobacco (except cigars) will not be mailable through the US Postal Service. And, yes, UPS, FedEx and DHL have publicly stated that they will also "voluntarily" refuse to ship tobacco products (except cigars). It doesn't make a damn bit of difference which deals the online stores "offer." They will be forced out of business, period.

PACT is about the dumbest bit of legislation since Prohibition (or, maybe the Patriot Act), but stupidity has never stopped Congress.

I don't believe that you are correct. Information contrary to that has been posted. Can you post some of the links to this information.

Here's what I found out from UPS. Read it for yourselves, mystery solved, lol. They've decided not to deliver cigarettes. Other tobacco products are fine as long as the delivery seller has a contract with UPS.



Dear Rick,

Thank you for your question about shipping tobacco products. UPS appreciates the business of all its customers, and makes every prudent effort to provide for their needs. The following are specific limitations for the shipment of tobacco products within the UPS system:

- Shipments of tobacco products will only be accepted from licensed dealers or distributors.

- Shipments of tobacco products from consumers are prohibited.

- Shipping of tobacco products from licensed dealers and distributors to consumers will be a contract only service.

- Shipments between licensed dealers or distributors will not require a contract.

- Shipments of tobacco products cannot be shipped using One Time Pickup or On Call Pickups.


As a result of these changes, tobacco products can not be shipped from any UPS retail shipping outlet. The UPS retail shipping outlets are: locations of The UPS Store or Mail Boxes Etc., Customer Centers, Authorized Shipping Outlets (ASOs), Alliance partners (Staples and Office Depot locations), and Commercial Counters. The only exception is for The UPS Store or Mail Boxes Etc. locations where a sales representative or employee of a tobacco company is returning a tobacco shipment back to the company and utilizes any UPS Return Service.

Our tobacco policy also includes changes due to the changes in state regulations restricting the sale and/or transportation of cigarettes. During this time, we’ve made extensive efforts to comply with all the different regulations, but have come to a point where this is no longer feasible given the size and scope of our global operations. UPS made the business decision to discontinue delivery of cigarettes direct to consumers in order to establish a consistent policy that will work best within this patchwork of differing state requirements on shippers, carriers and recipients.

For additional information regarding the shipment of tobacco products, please visit the following link:

www.ups.com/tobacco


Please contact us if you need any additional assistance.

If the PACT Act were to pass, online sales of snus would be impacted, but not prohibited.

In summary, the PACT Act requires that companies that engage in direct to consumer sales: (a) age verify consumers both at the time the consumer places an order and also arrange for a private carrier to age verify on delivery; (b) register with the States; (c) provide to the States reports that list consumers to whom they have sold cigarettes or smokeless tobacco products; and (d) collect and remit State excise taxes.

While we are voicing our concern over the legislation we are also preparing to work within the system that the Congress sets up to ensure that you still will be able to buy a full range of products.

BR/
Markus and Joakim
Swedish Match AB @ SnusCENTRAL.org
Joakim

Manufacturer

[daruckis]

So do you whine the same way when you buy a TV, and then see the same TV on sale the next month??

YES, that bugs the HELL out of me.

no sighs here, i think thats a completely reasonable excuse to whine. that shits annoying.

[TheOneandOnly]

Why are they going to make companies give lists of customers who ordered? Are they planning to hit us for backtaxes?

[GoVegan]

PACT Act

I am looking at the one quote by the General Tobacco people and am starting to wonder if the PACT Act is part of the reason why some of the snus retailers are opening warehouses in America. The American based warehouses may make it easier to work with the PACT Act. As far the shippers go, I can imagine they will come up with some kind of extra fee to check our ID upon arrival. I honestly don't mind paying more for snus, I just want to see it available.

[Owens187]

Re: PACT Act

I honestly don't mind paying more for snus, I just want to see it available.

Here Here........... 8)

[stubby2]

Why are they going to make companies give lists of customers who ordered? Are they planning to hit us for backtaxes?

That's a good question and I don't know the answer, but it is not about collecting taxes. That would be paid at the point of sale.

The tax part is not as complicated as it may appear. The seller simply has the tax rates of the 50 states and automatically adds it to the total, and that's a very simple computer program. How much more you pay depends on where you live, and a bit more for shipping (let's hope it not an absurd amount). Even if all goes bad and the PACT act passes we should still be able to get a full range of snus.

Now, I could be completely wrong on this and the reality is DOOM FOR US ALL. But for the moment that's my read on it.